How can I improve the sound quality?

[rossdv8]

I guess I'll just wait around until there is a proper fix.

That's probably not going to happen because there's probably nothing to fix.

E D I T !!

As Rene explains in the next post - That probably IS going to happen because there's actually 'something to fix', and it is being attended to

The problem is apparently in Mint, or in Linux generally.

So this next bit is W R O N G:-
It is more likely to be in the way it is interacting with your sound system.


I'm running three computers at the moment, all accessing a single sound system made up from odd low cost components.
Two of the Mint computers are running different Realtek audio chipsets, the other is a Raspberry Pi 4B, running whatever it is that's on its board.

All communicate with a Logitech Bluetooth receiver that has two separate Logitech X-230 speaker systems that each have an 8 inch sub driver and a pair of 2 inch satellites. That gives me 2 satellites and a Sub near the 55 inch monitor, and 2 satellites and a Sub in another part of the room. Not surround like yours - but a sort of 'depth of sound' effect that suits this space.

Because all the computers are controlled using a single mouse and keyboard, and are accessed sharing a single monitor, I can switch the sound from whichever computer needs audio with a couple of clicks.

So basically, unless your sound hardware is broken - and we know it is not, because you said it works fine under Windows -


OK, from here though, some of these following bits 'might' be useful for squeezing better quality out of the systemn once it is up and running:

You can 'improve the sound quality' by adjusting a few of the settings.

You are right about the Bass Enhancer in Pulse Effects. It can seem to just distort the weak sound that is there. If that is happening, you need to swap the weak sound that is there for some Bass, so the Bass Enhancer can Enhance it !

In the mean time remember to toggle each f the items you are using in Pulse Effects ON. I think I might have posted some pictures in the forum somewhere.
You can move each of the Pulse Effects 'Applications' Up and Down. I would suggest starting byt moving these to the top and turning each of them ON (leave all the others OFF).

Applications (should be at the TOP by default) Toggle this ON or you won't get anything from Pulse Effects. It is like a MASTER switch.
Stereo Tools - Toggle it ON and Leave Input and Output sliders at zero for now.
Crystalizer - Toggle it ON. Set Input to -1 and Output to -2
Bass Enhancer - Toggle it ON and set Input to -1 and Output to -2
Reverberation - I use it for a faux surroundish thing because I have two sub woofers in the room. You probably won't use it, but it can be 'interesting'
Equalizer is probably disabled by default. There are uses for it, but it is seldom needed.

Most of the other Applications can be messed with but the first three in my list will allow just about anything you are likely to need.

The important thing from there is to have your surround sound amps set up correctly. I have an amp built into each Sub and an amp in one of each pair of satellites. I have the Sub amps set about half way (to stop the upstairs neighbour complaining about the crockery bouncing in her china cupboard) and the satellites about 1/2 and 3/4 respectively. Mine can be painfully loud if I am not careful. The Bass makes the fabric chairs in the room vibrate, and perople say they can 'feel it going through parts of their body' rather than just hearing it. Your results will depend on whatever you use.

That's all there is to it. Mint is pretty forgiving where audio is concerned. You can run it without PulseAudio. And Alsa will play everything just fine. You will alsp find some of Mint's media players, like SMplayer and VLC have quite good Equalizers built into them. Just turn them ON.

But once you understand that Pulse is only a tool to get 'more' out of Alsa (ok, that;s simplistic, but it is sort of true) you can do a hell of a lot of 'improving' the sound quality in Mint.

Currently listening to Guns n Roses 'Sweet Child of Mine' shaking the ceiling (neighbour's floor) ...

[rene]

I guess I'll just wait around until there is a proper fix.

That's probably not going to happen because there's probably nothing to fix.

Ross, please from this thread note that the main issue here is that his subwoofer is not getting enabled by the driver due to the driver in currently to us on Mint available kernels not knowing to enable said subwoofer. That the patch from Kristin Paget that I linked to above adds his specific system's codec hardware ID to a so-called quirk table to tell Linux this.

As such, yes, problem 1 is general Linux, not any of poster's doings or understanding. Now, there is the annoying issue that seemingly after getting problem 1 sorted there's a problem 2 which only someone with the same hardware is in a good position to judge; I in that sense suggested simply contacting Kristin, since the way she presents her patch certainly has it look like having it applied is all there would be to it.

In any case, problem 1 is going to be solved and only going to be solved automatically after a kernel with the required patch lands for us; probably a 5.14 series kernel, possibly a 5.13 one with the (tiny) patch backported.

Poster: I still very much suggest contacting Kristin for more information, but if you want to go back to a standard kernel and just wait it out:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get purge --autoremove "linux-*-5.14*"

and reboot to boot into your old, regular kernel (assuming of course you didn't uninstall that by now). You can after doing that if you want also go into Update Manager -> Edit -> Software Sources and delete the two added "tuxinvader" PPAs and the "tuxinvader" Authentication Key. After that all's gone again. If you want you can then even reenable secure Boot in your BIOS but I generally advise to keep it disabled.

Personally I would still go talk to someone on the same hardware and try and find out what and how...

[rossdv8]

Ross, please from this thread note that the main issue here is that his subwoofer is not getting enabled by the driver due to the driver in currently to us on Mint available kernels not knowing to enable said subwoofer.

And I would like to tender my apology to fffrost for not quite understanding the detail, and not reading the post detailing the hardware specs of the system properly.

Once it is up and running though, the links regarding Pulse might be handy.
Again - sorry

[fffrost]

Thanks for the commands to revert back the previous kernel, and thanks rossdv8 for the info on sound - even if it doesn't help me now I will surely be using it when it is sorted out.

[MrEen]

Hello fffrost,

I'm a little rusty but we can try to get things working properly another way. Let's get a look at your sound setup with this command:

Code: Select all

curl https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/raw/master/src/utils/pa-info?inline=false | bash | nc termbin.com 9999

The last line of output will have a URL pointing to the info. Pasting that URL is all I need.

With that, I might be able to help get the sub working, if that's the main cause of your issue.

[Lady Fitzgerald]

This may or may not help. Laptops are not noted for having the best sound cards and drivers. Onboard sound and sound cards for desktops also not always great. USB DACs (digital to Analog Converter) can often give better sound since they aren't exposed to stray signals on a computer MOBO like onboard sound and sound cards often are.

Also, how speakers are connected can make a difference. I take the easy way out and just use a Dragonfly Red DAC for a 2.0 output. The Dragonfly is plug and play, needing no driver and control is through the speakers themselves and whatever app is playing through them.

Speaker choice also has an influence on how they get controlled. My speakers are two JBL 305P MkII studio monitor speakers for my satellites and a matching JBL LSR310S 10" front ported, down-firing sub. I went with studio monitors because of their flat response (makes setting up an EQ easier) and because all three are self amplified (saving me from having to find someplace to put one or more amplifiers, a serious problem in my crowded quarters). The 2.0 output from the DAC goes into the sub where it is run through a crossover network tailored for the speaker series, then sends each channel to the appropriate satellite and combines the output to generate the sound for the sub. Each satellite and the sub has its own loudness control to use for balancing between left and right and the sub.

I've been pretty happy with the system other than having a center channel speaker would have been nice when playing music from movies through the speakers since most vocals and dialogue are directed to a center channel when movies are set up for 5.1 and up (but, then, I would have the problem of where to put the center channel speaker; down-firing from inside the ceiling?). Balance is set individually at each satellite and the sub and basically set and forgotten. Frequency response gets set through the EQ of whatever player I'm using (usually VLC).

[fffrost]

Hello fffrost,

I'm a little rusty but we can try to get things working properly another way. Let's get a look at your sound setup with this command:

Code: Select all

curl https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/pulseaudio/pulseaudio/raw/master/src/utils/pa-info?inline=false | bash | nc termbin.com 9999

The last line of output will have a URL pointing to the info. Pasting that URL is all I need.

With that, I might be able to help get the sub working, if that's the main cause of your issue.

Alright, thanks for offering. Here is the url: https://termbin.com/rzx0.

This may or may not help. Laptops are not noted for having the best sound cards and drivers. Onboard sound and sound cards for desktops also not always great. USB DACs (digital to Analog Converter) can often give better sound since they are exposed to stray signals on a computer MOBO like onboard sound and sound cards often are.

Also, how speakers are connected can make a difference. I take the easy way out and just use a Dragonfly Red DAC for a 2.0 output. The Dragonfly is plug and play, needing no driver and control is through the speakers themselves and whatever app is playing though them.

Speaker choice also has an influence on how they get controlled. My speakers are two JBL 305P MkII studio monitor speakers for my satellites and a matching JBL LSR310S 10" front ported, down-firing sub. I went with studio monitors because of their flat response (makes setting up an EQ easier) and because all three are self amplified (saving me from having to find someplace to put one or more amplifiers, a serious problem in my crowded quarters). The 2.0 output from the DAC goes into the sub where it is run through a crossover network tailored for the speaker series, then sends each channel to the appropriate satellite and combines the output to generate the sound for the sub. Each satellite and the sub has its own loudness control to use for balancing between left and right and the sub.

I've been pretty happy with the system other than having a center channel speaker would have been nice when playing music from movies through the speakers since most vocals and dialogue are directed to a center channel when movies are set up for 5.1 and up (but, then, I would have the problem of where to put the center channel speaker; down-firing from inside the ceiling?). Balance is set individually at each satellite and the sub and basically set and forgotten. Frequency response gets set through the EQ of whatever player I'm using (usually VLC).

Thank you for sharing the recommendations & your setup, although I am pretty convinced it is not a hardware issue in this case because the sound is abnormally good for a laptop when I use windows With that said, it is possible that to the trained ear it is still pretty crap!

[MrEen]

Okay, I'm very rusty with this, but I'll try to get it right.

Install alsa-tools-gui however you like to install software (quickie terminal way is apt install alsa-tools-gui) and once it's installed run HDAJackRetask (again, the quickie hdajackretask in the terminal will do it) and then it might get a little tricky.

First, make sure Realtek ALC289 is selected in the upper left corner, then check the box for Show unconnected pins. In the table on the left, scroll down to pin 0x17 and check it's Override box. Now use it's dropdown box to change it from Not connected to something with LFE in the name. I'm pretty sure that will be an option, but if not, tell me what options it can be changed to.

You can attempt clicking on Apply now but that may generate an error. If no error, see if pavucontrol now gives a new option on the Configuration tab such as with Surround 2.1 in the name. Select it then test the sound. If that fixed things, click on Install boot override in hdajackretask to make it stick.

If you did get an error from clicking on Apply now, or choose to just skip it, click on Install boot override then reboot, make the pavucontrol change as above, then test the sound.

Good luck.

And we can easily undo this if it doesn't help.

[rene]

FWIW, I earlier checked what that posted quirk in fact did, and it is:

https://github.com/tiwai/sound/blob/mas ... ek.c#L6095

Code: Select all

/* force NID 0x17 (Bass Speaker) to DAC1 to share it with the main speaker */
static void alc285_fixup_speaker2_to_dac1(...)

When I in above context from MrEen look at what's available for me in hdajackretask pin 0x17 is not, although that may certainly be a matter of different hardware.

... and only on review just before posting I notice that MrEen in fact already mentioned you needing pin 0x17, so WIW is going to be "not a lot" --- but FWIW once again.

[fffrost]

Okay, I'm very rusty with this, but I'll try to get it right.

Install alsa-tools-gui however you like to install software (quickie terminal way is apt install alsa-tools-gui) and once it's installed run HDAJackRetask (again, the quickie hdajackretask in the terminal will do it) and then it might get a little tricky.

First, make sure Realtek ALC289 is selected in the upper left corner, then check the box for Show unconnected pins. In the table on the left, scroll down to pin 0x17 and check it's Override box. Now use it's dropdown box to change it from Not connected to something with LFE in the name. I'm pretty sure that will be an option, but if not, tell me what options it can be changed to.

You can attempt clicking on Apply now but that may generate an error. If no error, see if pavucontrol now gives a new option on the Configuration tab such as with Surround 2.1 in the name. Select it then test the sound. If that fixed things, click on Install boot override in hdajackretask to make it stick.

If you did get an error from clicking on Apply now, or choose to just skip it, click on Install boot override then reboot, make the pavucontrol change as above, then test the sound.

Good luck.

And we can easily undo this if it doesn't help.

Thanks for that! If I change the Pin 0x17 setting to Internal speaker (LFE) it seems to do something (tried a different setting which didn't have the same result). Though it is still no where near the quality on windows, and after flicking between the two it's hard to tell if it's just my imagination. In any case, it enables (in the pavucontrol configuration) various additional settings, including Analogue surround 4.0, and Analogue surround 2.1. Only 4.0 seems to work (2.1 is almost silent but I can hear something very faint). The problem is, it seems like the volume controls only affect system sound rather than application sounds.

If I select Analogue Surround 2.1 in the Sounds output profile and the same setting in the pavucontrol config, the subwoofer becomes available but the sound almost disappears. If I set pavucontrol to any of the Surround 4.0 settings (along with the basic Sounds profile) the sound returns but sub goes away. That said, it definitely seems to have done something positive to the sound, but it's quite muddy, and it still seems that the volume control only affects system sounds (i.e. the volume up/down noise), rather than actual applications. There are just 2 settings for those - on or muted.

Is there some way to reclaim volume control for application sounds?

[MrEen]

Damn, this is a bit heavier than I'm prepared for. And I have seen the loss of volume control before when doing stuff like this. For that one I have no idea what to try.

I would suggest doing some fooling around with HDAJackRetask. As rene mentioned Bass Speaker, choose that if it's an option. You can also look at other not connected pins and see what options they show. Some will have input options, some will have output options and some will have both. I would not suggest changing any of the pins that are already assigned, at least not yet. But in case we end up there, do tell me what options 0x14 has.

At any time, you can undo everything by clicking on Remove boot override then rebooting.

And just to be safe, I usually suggest using the Remove boot override and rebooting between changes. That way you don't end up with ten different changes all being applied at the same time when you didn't want to try that.

Be aware that some changes could stop all sound from working. Again, it an easy fix with Remove boot override, so feel free to experiment as it's too difficult to make all the suggestions possible from afar.

[fffrost]

I don't appear to have Bass Speaker as an option and I tried a few of the other non-connected pins but no luck. So I've decided I'll leave it for now and just keep an eye out for a kernel update to 5.14.x in the hopes that there will be a fix in there.

Thanks again to everyone for trying to help, it's nice to see that mint has a friendly community!

[MrEen]

Please tell me what options both 0x14 and 0x17 have. There was a case once where flipping the two made the difference. I know it's a bit difficult to get that info; you'll need to write it down before making a reply here.

What I meant by flipping was making 0x14 the Sub (LFE) and 0x17 as Front Speakers.

[fffrost]

Please tell me what options both 0x14 and 0x17 have.

Sure, 0x14: Line Out (Front), Line Out (Center/LFE), Line Out (Back), Line Out (Side), Internal Speaker, Internal Speaker (LFE), Internal Speaker (Back), Dock Line Out.

And then 0x17: Headphone, Line Out (Front), Line Out (Center/LFE), Line Out (Back), Line Out (Side), Internal Speaker, Internal Speaker (LFE), Internal Speaker (Back), Dock Headphone, Dock Line Out.

I just tried flipping as you suggested but there are no options for surround after, and I don't think there was a change to the sound.

[MrEen]

Okay, I'm afraid it might be best to see if the next kernel solves this. I am too far out of practice to be any more help with this right now.

[rossdv8]

Okay, I'm very rusty with this, but I'll try to get it right.

Install alsa-tools-gui however you like to install software (quickie terminal way is apt install alsa-tools-gui) and once it's installed run HDAJackRetask (again, the quickie hdajackretask in the terminal will do it) and then it might get a little tricky.

First, make sure Realtek ALC289 is selected in the upper left corner, then check the box for Show unconnected pins. In the table on the left, scroll down to pin 0x17 and check it's Override box. Now use it's dropdown box to change it from Not connected to something with LFE in the name. I'm pretty sure that will be an option, but if not, tell me what options it can be changed to.

I was curious about this, so I tried hdajackretask on one of my Mint systems running a Realtek ALC3239.
Pin 0x17 had an option for Line out (Center/LFE) and from memory LFE should be Low Frequency Emitter (yes I know I can check it probably quicker that I thought to type this) and that should be the SUB frequencies.

I eventually hit the Install Boot Override option on the first system after the Apply Now button threw up an error each time. I DID rename a the file ~/.config/pulse/client.cong and kill pulseaudio (pulseaudio -k or maybe I used sudo) when I got the error after using 'Apply'. Interesting though - that file doesn;t exist in the second Mint system .

On the second system I just hit Install Boot Override and ignored Apply Now, so I didn't mess with pulse other than to see if it had the client.conf file. It didn;t.

So, I don;t know whether my ears deceive me, or whether there is no difference at all. It 'sounds' excellent, so obviously nothing broke. What I 'hope' may have happened is that jack redirects lower frequencies to the subs, but I don;t see how that could happen given that a 3.5mm plug/socket only has wiring for a ground plus a Left and a Right.

Anyway, as mentioned, it hasn't killed anything. I imagine upgrading to an audio system using HDMI would be far gooder.

[MrEen]

The Apply now button has been throwing that error for most (all?) systems for over a year now. HDAJackRetask has probably not been touched by a developer since soon after it's release, so it's just what we're stuck with.

Something else added your ~/.config/pulse/client.conf file on that one machine. PulseEffects might be the culprit. HDAJackRetask only changes ALSA related files, which are all root owned files.

[rossdv8]

by MrEen » Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:09 pm
Something else added your ~/.config/pulse/client.conf file on that one machine

Thanks. I think I only used PulseEffects on one of them, so I might check.
In the mean time. I suppose I should not hijack this thread. I intended to just comment on the HDAJackRetask program, because I had never heard of it, and it 'seems' easy to use. Others might also not be aware that it can enable Audio features.

[fffrost]

Okay, I'm afraid it might be best to see if the next kernel solves this. I am too far out of practice to be any more help with this right now.

No worries! Thanks again.

[rossdv8]

I have a completely different Audio setup on my desktop system, but using hdajackretask, I have set override options listed on some pins for:
Line Out (Front)
Line Out (Rear)
Line Out (Center/LFE) - the sub
Line Out (Side)

I'm guessing a lot of this next bit, because I don;t know anything about your actual computer or the system you want to plug into it, but you can look it up.
Assuming you have wiring going from separate pins to at least two 3.5" Green Speaker/Headphone sockets, you should be able to get front, rear and Sub running.
If you have, as I do, the Green 3.5" sockets on the front and back of the case sharing the same pin wiring on the chip, that won;t help - I'm pretty sure you will only get Front OR Rear. In my case, with the sockets going to shared pins I can only get pretend surround, and excellent bass from the subs.

If you are using HDMI you should have all the surround options. But I 'think' the 3.5" connections rely on physical h/w actually going to the correct pins.