Audio don't work until Pulseaudio resets

[tarmiricmi]

Hello,
every time I boot my laptop, the audio isn't working until I enter into terminal following:

pulseaudio --check
pulseaudio -D

Now since I am obviously the Linux beginner, and honestly I don't care to understand why it is going on (from my point of view it is simply a bug) because I expect to set up the configuration once and use it onwards, is there any way to fix it permanently

[spamegg]

Hello tarmiricmi welcome to the Forum.
Please share your system info by going to:
→→→→ Menu/System Reports/System Information/click "Copy"
and pasting it here.
(Equivalently, you can use the command inxi -Fxxxmprz on the Terminal.)

[tarmiricmi]

Hello tarmiricmi welcome to the Forum.
Please share your system info by going to:
→→→→ Menu/System Reports/System Information/click "Copy"
and pasting it here.
(Equivalently, you can use the command inxi -Fxxxmprz on the Terminal.)

Code: Select all

Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 106.38 GiB used: 34.48 GiB (32.4%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/dm-1
    mapped: vgmint-root
  ID-2: /boot size: 1.61 GiB used: 794.7 MiB (48.3%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/sda3
  ID-3: /boot/efi size: 512 MiB used: 5.2 MiB (1.0%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/sda2
  ID-4: /home/mrblack size: 106.38 GiB used: 34.48 GiB (32.4%) fs: ecryptfs
    source: ERR-102
Swap:
  ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 980 MiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2
    dev: /dev/dm-2 mapped: vgmint-swap_1
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 57.0 C mobo: N/A
  Fan Speeds (RPM): fan-1: 3267
Repos:
  Packages: 2842 apt: 2836 flatpak: 6
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/brave-browser-release.list
    1: deb [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/brave-browser-archive-keyring.gpg arch=amd64] https://brave-browser-apt-release.s3.brave.com/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/chrome-remote-desktop.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome-remote-desktop/deb/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/megasync.list
    1: deb [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/meganz-archive-keyring.gpg] https://mega.nz/linux/repo/xUbuntu_22.04/ ./
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list
    1: deb http://packages.linuxmint.com vanessa main upstream import backport
    2: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy main restricted universe multiverse
    3: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-updates main restricted universe multiverse
    4: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-backports main restricted universe multiverse
    5: deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jammy-security main restricted universe multiverse
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/powershell.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64,armhf,arm64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/powershell.gpg] https://packages.microsoft.com/ubuntu/22.04/prod/ jammy main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/surfshark.list
    1: deb https://ocean.surfshark.com/debian stretch main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/vscode.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64,arm64,armhf] http://packages.microsoft.com/repos/code stable main
Info:
  Processes: 270 Uptime: 22m wakeups: 1 Init: systemd v: 249 runlevel: 5
  Compilers: gcc: 11.3.0 alt: 11 Shell: Bash v: 5.1.16
  running-in: mate-terminal inxi: 3.3.13

[Hoser Rob]

That'[s not even half the text output that command spits out and not useful. You need to show all of it.

[tarmiricmi]

That'[s not even half the text output that command spits out and not useful. You need to show all of it.

Sorry you are right, I haven't noticed. For some reason I chose the Select All option from the terminal and copied it, but it only copies the part of the output.

Here is the whole thing:

Code: Select all

System:
  Kernel: 5.15.0-56-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 11.3.0
    Desktop: MATE 1.26.0 info: mate-panel wm: marco 1.26.0 vt: 7
    dm: LightDM 1.30.0 Distro: Linux Mint 21 Vanessa base: Ubuntu 22.04 jammy
Machine:
  Type: Laptop System: LENOVO product: 3780EU99 v: ThinkPad X201
    serial: <superuser required> Chassis: type: 10 serial: <superuser required>
  Mobo: LENOVO model: 3780EU99 serial: <superuser required> BIOS: LENOVO
    v: 6QET70WP (1.40 ) date: 10/11/2012
Memory:
  RAM: total: 7.56 GiB used: 3.22 GiB (42.6%)
  RAM Report:
    permissions: Unable to run dmidecode. Root privileges required.
CPU:
  Info: dual core model: Intel Core i5 M 520 bits: 64 type: MT MCP
    smt: enabled arch: Westmere rev: 5 cache: L1: 128 KiB L2: 512 KiB L3: 3 MiB
  Speed (MHz): avg: 2580 high: 2617 min/max: 1199/2400 boost: enabled
    cores: 1: 2516 2: 2577 3: 2610 4: 2617 bogomips: 19151
  Flags: ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx
Graphics:
  Device-1: Intel Core Processor Integrated Graphics vendor: Lenovo
    driver: i915 v: kernel ports: active: LVDS-1 empty: DP-1,HDMI-A-1,VGA-1
    bus-ID: 00:02.0 chip-ID: 8086:0046 class-ID: 0300
  Device-2: Lenovo Integrated Webcam type: USB driver: uvcvideo
    bus-ID: 1-1.6:4 chip-ID: 17ef:4816 class-ID: 0e02
  Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.21.1.3 compositor: marco v: 1.26.0
    driver: X: loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa gpu: i915
    display-ID: :0 screens: 1
  Screen-1: 0 s-res: 1280x800 s-dpi: 96 s-size: 338x211mm (13.3x8.3")
    s-diag: 398mm (15.7")
  Monitor-1: LVDS-1 model: Lenovo res: 1280x800 hz: 60 dpi: 125
    size: 261x163mm (10.3x6.4") diag: 308mm (12.1") modes: 1280x800
  OpenGL: renderer: Mesa Intel HD Graphics (ILK) v: 2.1 Mesa 22.0.5
    direct render: Yes
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 5 Series/3400 Series High Definition Audio vendor: Lenovo
    driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 chip-ID: 8086:3b56
    class-ID: 0403
  Sound Server-1: ALSA v: k5.15.0-56-generic running: yes
  Sound Server-2: PulseAudio v: 15.99.1 running: yes
  Sound Server-3: PipeWire v: 0.3.48 running: yes
Network:
  Device-1: Intel 82577LM Gigabit Network vendor: Lenovo driver: e1000e
    v: kernel port: 1820 bus-ID: 00:19.0 chip-ID: 8086:10ea class-ID: 0200
  IF: enp0s25 state: down mac: <filter>
  Device-2: TP-Link 802.11ac NIC type: USB driver: rtl88x2bu
    bus-ID: 2-1.2:3 chip-ID: 2357:0138 class-ID: 0000 serial: <filter>
  IF: wlx9848277f463e state: up mac: <filter>
  IF-ID-1: surfshark_ipv6 state: unknown speed: N/A duplex: N/A
    mac: <filter>
  IF-ID-2: surfshark_wg state: unknown speed: N/A duplex: N/A mac: N/A
Bluetooth:
  Device-1: Broadcom BCM2045B (BDC-2.1) type: USB driver: btusb v: 0.8
    bus-ID: 1-1.4:3 chip-ID: 0a5c:217f class-ID: fe01 serial: <filter>
  Report: hciconfig ID: hci0 rfk-id: 1 state: up address: <filter>
    bt-v: 1.2 lmp-v: 2.1 sub-v: 4203 hci-v: 2.1 rev: 168
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 111.79 GiB used: 70.08 GiB (62.7%)
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Kingston model: SA400S37120G size: 111.79 GiB
    speed: 3.0 Gb/s type: SSD serial: <filter> rev: B1D1 scheme: GPT
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 106.38 GiB used: 34.65 GiB (32.6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/dm-1
    mapped: vgmint-root
  ID-2: /boot size: 1.61 GiB used: 794.7 MiB (48.3%) fs: ext4
    dev: /dev/sda3
  ID-3: /boot/efi size: 512 MiB used: 5.2 MiB (1.0%) fs: vfat
    dev: /dev/sda2
  ID-4: /home/mrblack size: 106.38 GiB used: 34.65 GiB (32.6%) fs: ecryptfs
    source: ERR-102
Swap:
  ID-1: swap-1 type: partition size: 980 MiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) priority: -2
    dev: /dev/dm-2 mapped: vgmint-swap_1
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 56.0 C mobo: N/A
  Fan Speeds (RPM): fan-1: 3481
Repos:
  Packages: 2842 apt: 2836 flatpak: 6
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/brave-browser-release.list
    1: deb [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/brave-browser-archive-keyring.gpg arch=amd64] https://brave-browser-apt-release.s3.brave.com/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/chrome-remote-desktop.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64] http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome-remote-desktop/deb/ stable main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/megasync.list
    1: deb [signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/meganz-archive-keyring.gpg] https://mega.nz/linux/repo/xUbuntu_22.04/ ./
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list
    1: deb http://packages.linuxmint.com vanessa main upstream import backport
    2: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy main restricted universe multiverse
    3: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-updates main restricted universe multiverse
    4: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jammy-backports main restricted universe multiverse
    5: deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ jammy-security main restricted universe multiverse
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/powershell.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64,armhf,arm64 signed-by=/usr/share/keyrings/powershell.gpg] https://packages.microsoft.com/ubuntu/22.04/prod/ jammy main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/surfshark.list
    1: deb https://ocean.surfshark.com/debian stretch main
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/vscode.list
    1: deb [arch=amd64,arm64,armhf] http://packages.microsoft.com/repos/code stable main
Info:
  Processes: 283 Uptime: 3m wakeups: 1 Init: systemd v: 249 runlevel: 5
  Compilers: gcc: 11.3.0 alt: 11 Shell: Bash v: 5.1.16
  running-in: mate-terminal inxi: 3.3.13

[SMG]

every time I boot my laptop, the audio isn't working until I enter into terminal following:

pulseaudio --check
pulseaudio -D

The first line does not do anything; it only returns a status. According to the pulseaudio documentation:

Code: Select all

      --check                           Check for a running daemon (only returns exit code)

What value is being returned when you run that?

According to ArchLinux: pulseaudio

Return 0 as return code when the PulseAudio daemon is already running for the calling user, or non-zero otherwise. Produces no output on the console except for errors to stderr.

Note that a non-zero return value doesn't necessarily mean that PulseAudio is not usable. Even if the server is not running, it may get automatically started via PulseAudio's autospawning mechanism or systemd's socket activation, or the environment might be such that checking for processes doesn't work (for example, the running server might not show up in a container, even if the server is accessible via a socket).

According to the pulseaudio documentation, the second line indicates:

Code: Select all

  -D, --daemonize[=BOOL]                Daemonize after startup

According to pulseaudio (1) - Linux Man Pages, it indicates, "Daemonize after startup, i.e. detach from the terminal. Note that when running as a systemd service you should use --daemonize=no for systemd notification to work."

I am not aware of anyone needing to run those lines in order to get sound so your situation seems unusual. How did you happen to decide to run those lines?

[tarmiricmi]

I am not aware of anyone needing to run those lines in order to get sound so your situation seems unusual. How did you happen to decide to run those lines?

Hello man, thanks for trying to helping me out.
At most times, the audio works in all apps except Firefox. When I run those commands it is working somehow. Sometimes I need to reboot the laptop.
However when I mess with the different outputs, like when I connect the headphone, those commands are really necessary to get any output. I installed Pulseaudio as a solution to these problems, not to have additional issues...Audio should be working once is set up as I don't have the time nor inclination to study each command.

When I run those commands, nothing is returned, except on stubborn days, after command pulseaudio -D it can return that Daemon startup failed.
and then I need to reboot if I want to get the audio.

I found those commands here:
https://askubuntu.com/questions/879037/ ... lease-wait

Note:
In the last 2 years, I installed various Linux Mint versions this laptop (clean install after format everything), and all those times I had exactly the same issues with sound.

[SMG]

Hello man, thanks for trying to helping me out.

I'm a woman.

At most times, the audio works in all apps except Firefox.

So if you do nothing then the sound works except on some websites? It's helpful if you can give specifics. Does it never work on Firefox or does is sometimes work on Firefox?

However when I mess with the different outputs, like when I connect the headphone, those commands are really necessary to get any output.

You didn't mention anything about headphones in your original post so we would assume you were not getting sound through the speakers. Does this problem mainly happen through the headphones?

When I run those commands, nothing is returned, except on stubborn days, after command pulseaudio -D it can return that Daemon startup failed.
and then I need to reboot if I want to get the audio.

And when you reboot the pulseaudio service starts. If you scroll down on the link you provided you will see mention of restarting the pulseaudio service. The daemon is not normally run; the service is run.

You seem to be mentioning a lot of random things so I'm wondering if this information might be applicable: On the ArchLinux ThinkPad X201 page there is a line item for no speaker output. It links to this page Thinkpad X201 mute button breaking speaker output.

If that does not help you, let us know the output of

Code: Select all

aplay -l

and

Code: Select all

journalctl -k | grep -Ei "ALSA|HDA|sof|HDMI|snd[_-]|sound|hda.codec|hda.intel"

[tarmiricmi]

Hello man, thanks for trying to helping me out.

I'm a woman.

At most times, the audio works in all apps except Firefox.

So if you do nothing then the sound works except on some websites? It's helpful if you can give specifics. Does it never work on Firefox or does is sometimes work on Firefox?

However when I mess with the different outputs, like when I connect the headphone, those commands are really necessary to get any output.

You didn't mention anything about headphones in your original post so we would assume you were not getting sound through the speakers. Does this problem mainly happen through the headphones?

When I run those commands, nothing is returned, except on stubborn days, after command pulseaudio -D it can return that Daemon startup failed.
and then I need to reboot if I want to get the audio.

And when you reboot the pulseaudio service starts. If you scroll down on the link you provided you will see mention of restarting the pulseaudio service. The daemon is not normally run; the service is run.

You seem to be mentioning a lot of random things so I'm wondering if this information might be applicable: On the ArchLinux ThinkPad X201 page there is a line item for no speaker output. It links to this page Thinkpad X201 mute button breaking speaker output.

If that does not help you, let us know the output of

Code: Select all

aplay -l

and

Code: Select all

journalctl -k | grep -Ei "ALSA|HDA|sof|HDMI|snd[_-]|sound|hda.codec|hda.intel"

Hi sorry for the misquoting the gender
So for instance last night I booted the laptop and the sound was working on the laptop's speakers everywhere except in the Firefox (all sites). That's the most common situation and it happens maybe in the 60% of boot-ups.

This morning however the sound (again, laptop's speakers) doesn't work anywhere.

The commands that I mentioned solve the problem, when I run them sound works as it should (except in the 20% of cases when I get the 'daemon...' error, then I need to reboot and rerun the commands).

The problem happens with the laptop's speakers (when the sound works properly, ie. when I 'fix' it with those commands). When I connect the headphones it messes up but once I get it solved via Pulseaudio GUI it stays fixed (even if there is no sound again, after running pulseaudio commands the headphones settings remain). However even when the output is set to headphones it behaves the same as with the laptop speakers.

You suggested the links where is described the issue with the Mute button. Pressing it doesn't solve the thing, I had Windows 7/10 before and there were no such problems (Windows 10 is too slow for this machine hence Linux).

Wanted outputs (Aplay first):

Code: Select all

**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: MID [HDA Intel MID], device 0: CX20585 Analog [CX20585 Analog]
  Subdevices: 0/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: MID [HDA Intel MID], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

and another

Code: Select all

Dec 08 10:18:42 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: ACPI: Added _OSI(Linux-Lenovo-NV-HDMI-Audio)
Dec 08 10:18:42 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: pps_core: Software ver. 5.3.6 - Copyright 2005-2007 Rodolfo Giometti <giometti@linux.it>
Dec 08 10:18:42 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: PCI-DMA: Using software bounce buffering for IO (SWIOTLB)
Dec 08 10:18:42 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: software IO TLB: mapped [mem 0x00000000b727c000-0x00000000bb27c000] (64MB)
Dec 08 10:18:42 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: xor: measuring software checksum speed
Dec 08 10:18:43 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: snd_hda_intel 0000:00:1b.0: bound 0000:00:02.0 (ops i915_audio_component_bind_ops [i915])
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: snd_hda_codec_conexant hdaudioC0D0: CX20585: BIOS auto-probing.
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: snd_hda_codec_conexant hdaudioC0D0: autoconfig for CX20585: line_outs=1 (0x1f/0x0/0x0/0x0/0x0) type:speaker
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: snd_hda_codec_conexant hdaudioC0D0:    speaker_outs=0 (0x0/0x0/0x0/0x0/0x0)
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: snd_hda_codec_conexant hdaudioC0D0:    hp_outs=2 (0x1c/0x19/0x0/0x0/0x0)
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: snd_hda_codec_conexant hdaudioC0D0:    mono: mono_out=0x0
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: snd_hda_codec_conexant hdaudioC0D0:    inputs:
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: snd_hda_codec_conexant hdaudioC0D0:      Internal Mic=0x23
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: snd_hda_codec_conexant hdaudioC0D0:      Mic=0x1b
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: snd_hda_codec_conexant hdaudioC0D0:      Dock Mic=0x1a
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: input: HDA Intel MID Mic as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sound/card0/input20
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: input: HDA Intel MID Dock Mic as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sound/card0/input21
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: input: HDA Intel MID Dock Headphone as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sound/card0/input22
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: input: HDA Intel MID Headphone as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sound/card0/input23
Dec 08 10:18:44 mrblack-ThinkPad-X201 kernel: input: HDA Intel MID HDMI/DP,pcm=3 as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1b.0/sound/card0/input24

[SMG]

So for instance last night I booted the laptop and the sound was working on the laptop's speakers everywhere except in the Firefox (all sites). That's the most common situation and it happens maybe in the 60% of boot-ups.

While I was searching yesterday, I came across topics which mentioned the sound issue with Firefox. Apparently, there are some settings within Firefox which can be changed, but it's not necessarily something the Firefox developers would expect someone would need to do. Also, I saw mention of making sound changes for specific applications in Pulseaudio (I think it was Pulseaudio--I would have to see if I could find the reference again to be sure).

This morning however the sound (again, laptop's speakers) doesn't work anywhere.

When situations like that happen, it makes me suspect a connection to hardware is not always happening.

The commands that I mentioned solve the problem, when I run them sound works as it should (except in the 20% of cases when I get the 'daemon...' error, then I need to reboot and rerun the commands).

As I already mentioned, the first command does not do anything. It's like you looking at a clock to read the time. The clock didn't do anything except show you its numbers (which it does continuously anyhow). The second command actually does something so check to see if you get sound by only running the second command (if the below suggestion does not work).

Code: Select all

**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: MID [HDA Intel MID], device 0: CX20585 Analog [CX20585 Analog]

Please see if the recommendation in this post resolves the issue. You actually have a Thinkpad so I'm hopeful it will work and you will not longer need to manipulate the pulseaudio daemon.

[tarmiricmi]

Please see if the recommendation in this post resolves the issue. You actually have a Thinkpad so I'm hopeful it will work and you will not longer need to manipulate the pulseaudio daemon.

I tried and I got some stupid errors

Code: Select all

** (xed:5063): WARNING **: 22:59:22.427: Set document metadata failed: Setting attribute metadata::xed-position not supported

** (xed:5063): WARNING **: 22:59:22.427: Set document metadata failed: Setting attribute metadata::xed-position not supported

** (xed:5063): WARNING **: 22:59:22.427: Set document metadata failed: Setting attribute metadata::xed-position not supported

** (xed:5063): WARNING **: 22:59:22.427: Set document metadata failed: Setting attribute metadata::xed-position not supported

(xed:5063): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 22:59:22.432: gtk_action_group_get_action: assertion 'GTK_IS_ACTION_GROUP (action_group)' failed

(xed:5063): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 22:59:22.432: gtk_action_group_get_action: assertion 'GTK_IS_ACTION_GROUP (action_group)' failed

(xed:5063): Gtk-CRITICAL **: 22:59:22.433: gtk_action_group_get_action: assertion 'GTK_IS_ACTION_GROUP (action_group)' failed

This is the most important problem of Linux for users: while you are trying to fix something, another subproblem(s) emerge and you can't fix the first problem while second problem, lower in the hierarchy isn't solved. Then the lower problem sometimes requires solving of problem beneath it and it can go exponentially.

Anyways it seems nothing works except pulseaudio -D so while this laptop lasts I'm gonna use it like that and when the time comes I'm gonna ditch it together with the Linux, too much time wasting (this is only one of dozen issues, not so important but taken together kinda limiting).

Thanks for your time, you need no more wasting your time with random user's problems.

[SMG]

Please see if the recommendation in this post resolves the issue. You actually have a Thinkpad so I'm hopeful it will work and you will not longer need to manipulate the pulseaudio daemon.

I tried and I got some stupid errors

Those are warnings and not errors and they do not affect your ability to save the changes you made to the files. They just look scary, but they can be ignored. Everyone who opens xed using that command gets them.

This is the most important problem of Linux for users: while you are trying to fix something, another subproblem(s) emerge and you can't fix the first problem while second problem, lower in the hierarchy isn't solved. Then the lower problem sometimes requires solving of problem beneath it and it can go exponentially.

There is no problem. Sorry that I forgot about this and did not warn you to not panic.

Thanks for your time, you need no more wasting your time with random user's problems.

You're welcome.