System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

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Ernie Pantuso
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System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by Ernie Pantuso » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:53 pm

I have a PC with a Biostar NM70I-874 motherboard/CPU and 8GB of Crucial Ballistix RAM. It's a multiboot system with Mint 17.3 (x64), Chromixium 1.5 (x64) Windows 7-64.

While using/configuring Chromixium or Mint (mostly Chrome+Thunar/Nautilus+gEdit+Terminal), the system spontaneously shuts down after anywhere between 2-10 minutes.

I suspected a RAM issue so I pulled one DIMM, then the other. Problem still occurred. No errors running Memtest - unless I try to use multi-threaded mode (F2 when it starts) - then ALL tests fail. Not sure what to make of this but I'm inclined to think it's an issue with Memtest.

To rule out hard drive errors, I booted a live distro and tried using that for a while. Same problem.

To rule out a CPU problem, I'm now running systester and it's on pass 3 at 32M Pi digits, 4 threads, 50 passes. It's been running almost 2 hours now with no failures and no system shutdowns. It's a mystery - no way I could actually use the system for that long without a crash, yet a stress testing/benchmarking tool doesn't crash the system.

Any suggestions on what to try or what the problem may be?

Output of inxi -Fxz

System: Host: TGMLoaner4 Kernel: 3.19.0-65-generic x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 4.8.4)
Desktop: Xfce 4.12.2 (Gtk 2.24.23) Distro: Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa
Machine: Mobo: TAR model: NM70I-847 v: 6.0
Bios: American Megatrends v: 4.6.5 date: 09/10/2012
CPU: Dual core Intel Celeron 847 (-MCP-) cache: 2048 KB
flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 4389
clock speeds: max: 1100 MHz 1: 1081 MHz 2: 1100 MHz
Graphics: Card: Intel 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller
bus-ID: 00:02.0
Display Server: X.Org 1.17.1 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
Resolution: 1920x1080@60.0hz
GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Sandybridge Mobile
GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 10.5.9 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio: Card Intel 7 Series/C210 Series Family High Definition Audio Controller
driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k3.19.0-65-generic
Network: Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
driver: r8169 v: 2.3LK-NAPI port: e000 bus-ID: 04:00.0
IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter>
Drives: HDD Total Size: 191.3GB (5.6% used)
ID-1: /dev/sda model: ST3160812AS size: 160.0GB
ID-2: USB /dev/sdb model: DataTraveler_2.0 size: 31.2GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 19G used: 5.7G (33%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda10
ID-2: /boot size: 180M used: 86M (52%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda9
ID-3: /home size: 47G used: 581M (2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda8
ID-4: swap-1 size: 4.09GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda7
RAID: No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 53.0C mobo: 27.8C
Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info: Processes: 187 Uptime: 1 min Memory: 312.5/7877.7MB
Init: Upstart runlevel: 2 Gcc sys: 4.8.4
Client: Shell (bash 4.3.111) inxi: 2.2.28

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drydenp
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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by drydenp » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:40 pm

So basically you have two OSes using the Linux kernel that have these shutdowns, but Windows itself does not?

So you're saying either it is a hardware problem or a Linux kernel problem.

And you are thinking it must be the kernel.

The only *easy* thing I can suggest is installing a 32-bit version and see if it still happens. The kernel sometimes does different stuff for 32-bit versus 64-bit. If it persists, you have ruled that out at least. Does it also happen in a Live DVD session?

There are probably not many CPU instructions that can trigger a shutdown, probably just one. If it is due to software, it is going to be somewhat odd. Of course as you would agree the issues is not having any log information if the system shuts down that fast :p.

I don't really know what can trigger this, sorry.

rene
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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by rene » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:49 pm

I take it you are running said systester on the actual 17.3 system that shows the issue when not running it, and not as part of some bootable dedicated hardware-tester thingy? And are you also using the system "normally" in the mean time? If so, something that comes to mind is said systester perhaps keeping the CPU fan from spinning down whereas normally it would, combined with your system having a problem spinning it back up once it has been spun down.

An overheating problem, that is. If indeed the inxi report was generated while running the systester it shows 53 deg C. You could monitor the temperature while not running the systester (and/or the fan noise, obviously).

If the systester is not running in the normally failing environment I'd first advise to try a different kernel, and certainly without any non-standard/proprietary kernel modules if you are using one/some now.

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Acewiza
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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by Acewiza » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:00 pm

I believe Rene is on the right track. That sort of behavior is typical of CPU over-heat.

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drydenp
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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by drydenp » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:43 pm

That's just rather weird if it doesn't happen during a CPU overheat challenge, isn't it.

I think it is rather odd to consider that during complete idle - even if the CPU fan is not spinning (I never have CPU fans ;-)) that a system would overheat, unless you had really bad airflow apart from the CPU cooler and the CPU cooler would also be a tiny block.

A dual core Celeron is NOT a high power device. It has a TDP of 17 Watts. That is less than half of the CPU in this system and I probably could not get it past 60 degrees with passive cooling if I tried.

Just saying it would sound like a logical explanation but to me it seems rather far fetched. Could be wrong, I haven't seen everything. Just saying.

The Celeron 847 is on par with an Atom CPU. Slightly less power, slightly more performance.

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Acewiza
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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by Acewiza » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:03 pm

You're probably right about it not being heat - I'm just taking a WAG here. Let's see if the OP comes back with any new info...

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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by Mute Ant » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:15 am

I had a motherboard that thought it was over heating...the CR2032 coin cell was flat and the temperature reading was above 50'C for no good reason. With a new cell all the 'Thermal Event Shutdown' troubles went away.
Last edited by Mute Ant on Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rene
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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by rene » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:50 am

drydenp wrote:That's just rather weird if it doesn't happen during a CPU overheat challenge, isn't it.
A bit but not fully. As said, the systester load could (would) keep the CPU-fan from spinning down in the first place whereas it normally would, with the problem being a once spun-down fan not spinning up any more, even if later the load increases again. This is also not unheard in a non-theoretical sense if for example at power-on the fan is kicked into gear at full voltage, enough to get it going, but the later slow increase in heat causes the system to try and start a at that point spun-down fan up slowly. An old or dusty fan can indeed have trouble spinning up, and I have seen that scenario in and of itself.

Admittedly we'd need to account for an eventually significantly overheating CPU still not causing the fan to start and yes, I noticed it to be a Celeron as well, but still, the symptom so fully sounds like CPU overheating that the possibility needs to be the first to be done away with.
drydenp wrote:A dual core Celeron is NOT a high power device. It has a TDP of 17 Watts. That is less than half of the CPU in this system and I probably could not get it past 60 degrees with passive cooling if I tried.
17 Wats I hadn't seen. Yes, makes my above scenario unlikelier still and perhaps impossible. Still, first things first; "awaiting feedback".

It also wasn't to me (fully) certain from the posting if the systester was running in the regular 17.3 environment though. Another thing that comes to mind in these situations is a triple fault -- although again admittedly that tends to cause an immediate reset, rather than a shutdown. But that was the bit about the different kernel and no strange modules loaded.

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drydenp
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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by drydenp » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:16 am

Me neither, I think he was running it in Windows. I initially thought a pre-boot environment but you can run the thing in Linux as well. That wouldn't make sense though. He made it appear to be a pre-boot environment or otherwise it'd be Windows.

I was once asked to attach a serial console to troubleshoot my system. That is what people in ##kernel are going to ask you.

That's also what I was going to suggest; the only real way to know for sure.

But perhaps not as easy to do. Right of the bat.

oligin10
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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by oligin10 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:24 pm

I know this is an older post, but it's the motherboard. Doesn't like the linux kernel due to a RC6 issue with power savings. Same problems on mine. There is a fix but it only works on Ubuntu 14.x.x LTS distros. Thanks, Rob

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karlchen
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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by karlchen » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:32 pm

This thread started with Mint 17.3. Mint 17.3 is based on Ubuntu 14.04.
Therefore a kernel fix which works on Ubuntu 14.04, should work on Mint 17.3 as well.
Question would really be which kernel precisely has been fixed.
The OP used kernel 3.19.0-xx. That kernel has been desupported by Canonical quite while ago.
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Linux Mint 18.1 64-bit Cinnamon Desktop, Total Commander 9.21a 64-bit
Ubuntu 18.04.1 32-bit Mate Desktop, Total Commander 9.21a 32-bit
Windows? - 1 window in every room

oligin10
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Re: System instability/unexpected shutdowns - suggestions, please?

Post by oligin10 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:41 pm

Sorry Just saw this. No kernel has been fixed. There is a script to fix it but it will not work on the newer versions. But, PCLINUXOS doesn't have this problem. It is the only modern linux that doesn't suffer from this issue AFAIK. I am running it now on this computer. The issue is remarked upon a lot in the Newegg reviews of the motherboard.

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