Do USB hard drives have the same life limitations as a pendrive?

[Fiduggin67]

Hello Everyone,

I know this is a very novice question, but I just purchased a 500GB Seagate Expansion Drive for the sole purpose of putting a Linux distro on it for permanent use. I have had good success in the past the live distros using persistent saves, but eventually USB pen drives are going to fail. This new drive is a spinning hard drive (5400 speed). If I install a full blown distro (probably another installation of Mint or Ubuntu, possibly Slackware,) can I expect the same longevity of the drive just as I would from an internal hard drive? I realize the performance is not going to be quite as fast, but that does not bother me.

Anyone have any long term experience with this? Also, as a separate question, I have a 1 year old laptop that has Windows 10, which I can't dispose of because my wife uses it and she will not use Linux. I would like to be able to boot the linux distro from this laptop as the resources are pretty good (AMD 4-core with 8GB memory.) However, even though the BIOS offers a boot order, when F9 is pressed to select the boot device, the USB boot is not listed. I have re-ordered the boot devices in the BIOS, but it still does not show up. I have read somewhere that Secure Boot must be disable to boot from USB, but Windows will not boot without it. Any thoughts on a work around?

Many thanks for any help. The laptop is an HP.

Bob

[Neil Edmond]

...can I expect the same longevity of the drive just as I would from an internal hard drive?

For the most part, yes. A USB connection offers the possibility of power interruptions that might not be present with an internal interface, that could shorten the life of a USB connected spinning disk, but that's about all I can think of.

[Fiduggin67]

Thank you for your reply. I'd hoped that was the case. I would actually dual boot this laptop with Windows, but it has been a long time since I have attempted that. It appears that simple BIOS settings are a thing of the past (UFEI). I'm not sure why HP (and other manufacturers) have decided to make it so difficult. It's almost as if they want to discourage any other operating system other than Windows. I will have to investigate. I don't want to ruin Windows, but only for my wife as I detest using Windows. If had my way I would just wipe the drive and install Linux.

Thanks again for your help.

Bob

[Flemur]

If I install a full blown distro (probably another installation of Mint or Ubuntu, possibly Slackware,) can I expect the same longevity of the drive just as I would from an internal hard drive?

I don't see any reason to think they'd differ as long as you're careful with the removable disk - IIRC, in that google disk study, getting bumped was the main cause of, or a major contributor to, disk failures:
https://research.google.com/archive/disk_failures.pdf
Edit: I just re-read thru that and they don't mention bumps, but see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_disk ... of_failure
and others - "head crash" ~= bumped while running and it's bad news.

[Fiduggin67]

If I install a full blown distro (probably another installation of Mint or Ubuntu, possibly Slackware,) can I expect the same longevity of the drive just as I would from an internal hard drive?

I don't see any reason to think they'd differ as long as you're careful with the removable disk - IIRC, in that google disk study, getting bumped was the main cause of, or a major contributor to, disk failures:
https://research.google.com/archive/disk_failures.pdf

Thank you for your reply. This is small portable USB drive, but it is a spinning drive. I will have to be very careful about it being bumped.

Thanks again

Bob

[michael louwe]

@ Fiduggin67, .......

...

.
If you are trying to dual-boot Linux from an external USB hard-drive that is connected to a UEFI Win 10 laptop(via the USB port), the installation procedures are quite complicated ... https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295 (under Two Drives UEFI Install)
https://nwrickert2.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... and-linux/ (notes-on-uefi-windows-and-linux/)
https://askubuntu.com/questions/380447/ ... ew-machine (uefi-boot-fails-when-cloning-image-to-new-machine)

Bear in mind that the forced auto-updates and upgrades of Win 10 will often bork the Linux Grub bootloader.

EDIT; ... To simplify things, you can follow msfullroller's recommendation, ie unplug the Win 10 internal hard drive before installing LM on the external USB hard drive.

[Fiduggin67]

Goodness, thank you for that. What I really wanted to do was create a dual boot on the laptop's hardrive, but thought it might be easier just to put Linux on a USB drive and boot from there. That way I would not have to mess with the Windows partition on the laptop hard drive. But it looks like it doesn't matter where I install Linux it is going to be a nightmare. I haven't attempted something like this for years (well before UEFI became a standard.) Reading the instructions in the link you provided it looks like it might be over my head. I haven't even been able to figure out how to get the laptop to boot from anything other than the hard drive. But even if I could, it doesn't look like the installation would be a "walkthrough" like it used to be. I will study it some more and decide if I want to attempt it. I would really like to get Linux on this laptop, but I can't risk destroying Windows (my wife would be really up set..)

Thank you for your input and help

Bob

[msfullroller]

I have been using a Western Digital USB hard drive for the purposes of dual booting for 3 years now. I don't use Windows 10 so I can't offer any help there. This drive was at first primarily used for storage and watching purchased webinar videos from it for at least 3-4 years prior to trying Linux, Ubuntu being my maiden voyage before sailing on to Mint. The SMART readings indicate no problems with the drive.

Wait...I totally forgot that this **new to me*** laptop had Windows 10 installed on it. I have to mention too that this is not a new laptop as I think it was manufactured in 2013. During the 30 day return time to check out if the computer was ok, I installed Mint 17.2 on another WD USB drive that I had so that I could use this computer. The Secure Boot had already been turned off by the prior owner who had installed Windows 10 on it. Prior to the installation of Mint onto the USB drive, I took out the hard drive that had Windows 10 on it to make sure that the installer would not see the drive during the installation. After the installation was done and checked out ok, I put the hard drive back in.

Hope that helps.

[Arch_Enemy]

Goodness, thank you for that. What I really wanted to do was create a dual boot on the laptop's hardrive, but thought it might be easier just to put Linux on a USB drive and boot from there. That way I would not have to mess with the Windows partition on the laptop hard drive. But it looks like it doesn't matter where I install Linux it is going to be a nightmare. I haven't attempted something like this for years (well before UEFI became a standard.) Reading the instructions in the link you provided it looks like it might be over my head. I haven't even been able to figure out how to get the laptop to boot from anything other than the hard drive. But even if I could, it doesn't look like the installation would be a "walkthrough" like it used to be. I will study it some more and decide if I want to attempt it. I would really like to get Linux on this laptop, but I can't risk destroying Windows (my wife would be really up set..)

Thank you for your input and help

Bob

Installing on a USB HDD will mean painfully slow operation. The USB 3 drivers in Linux right now aren't the best.

There is a trick you can do to make it appear faster; what it does is hold writes in memory until the disk is slack, but if it shuts down before writing you lose whatever hasn't been written.

If you aren't going to save anything to the pendrive you can make an ISO and just run it. Anything will have to be saved to another drive. But it boots and runs fast, and can be booted from just about any system if you don't include the specific drivers for your system.

This takes some practice, but once you do one or two it's a breeze: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=688872

If you want to keep your drivers and settings you can do so, but it may only run on the system it was built on. Set your file manager to show hidden files, copy your configs (.hiddenfile) to the home directory in the work folder, and then chown the folder and files in the folder to your user name. Also, skip the user removal step, and your login will be available with your username.

You can also use Systemback, and either get a large USB stick to keep data you want handy, or trim it down so you just have your user and program files. Systemback was actually harder for me to use after doing it the other way.

The Ubuntu instructions work very well with Mint 17.x; some things get lost in 18.x, but I can't remember what.

You only need to follow the instructions on the first page. To make internet use easy skip the hostname removal, and to keep your username and password skip the "remove non system user" step.

[Arch_Enemy]

Hello Everyone,

I know this is a very novice question, but I just purchased a 500GB Seagate Expansion Drive for the sole purpose of putting a Linux distro on it for permanent use. I have had good success in the past the live distros using persistent saves, but eventually USB pen drives are going to fail. This new drive is a spinning hard drive (5400 speed). If I install a full blown distro (probably another installation of Mint or Ubuntu, possibly Slackware,) can I expect the same longevity of the drive just as I would from an internal hard drive? I realize the performance is not going to be quite as fast, but that does not bother me.

Anyone have any long term experience with this? Also, as a separate question, I have a 1 year old laptop that has Windows 10, which I can't dispose of because my wife uses it and she will not use Linux. I would like to be able to boot the linux distro from this laptop as the resources are pretty good (AMD 4-core with 8GB memory.) However, even though the BIOS offers a boot order, when F9 is pressed to select the boot device, the USB boot is not listed. I have re-ordered the boot devices in the BIOS, but it still does not show up. I have read somewhere that Secure Boot must be disable to boot from USB, but Windows will not boot without it. Any thoughts on a work around?

Many thanks for any help. The laptop is an HP.

Bob

BTW, the main reasons pendrives fail is too many write cycles; they will read almost indefinitely, and too many insertions. Actually the insertions isn't really the problem, it's the strain placed on the connector, so use extra attention when inserting/removing, and get a GOOD pendrive, like a SanDisk or PNY. Although PNYs and Lexars are painfully S-L-O-W.......

[msfullroller]

Goodness, thank you for that. What I really wanted to do was create a dual boot on the laptop's hardrive, but thought it might be easier just to put Linux on a USB drive and boot from there. That way I would not have to mess with the Windows partition on the laptop hard drive. But it looks like it doesn't matter where I install Linux it is going to be a nightmare. I haven't attempted something like this for years (well before UEFI became a standard.) Reading the instructions in the link you provided it looks like it might be over my head. I haven't even been able to figure out how to get the laptop to boot from anything other than the hard drive. But even if I could, it doesn't look like the installation would be a "walkthrough" like it used to be. I will study it some more and decide if I want to attempt it. I would really like to get Linux on this laptop, but I can't risk destroying Windows (my wife would be really up set..)

Thank you for your input and help

Bob

Installing on a USB HDD will mean painfully slow operation. The USB 3 drivers in Linux right now aren't the best.

There is a trick you can do to make it appear faster; what it does is hold writes in memory until the disk is slack, but if it shuts down before writing you lose whatever hasn't been written.

If you aren't going to save anything to the pendrive you can make an ISO and just run it. Anything will have to be saved to another drive. But it boots and runs fast, and can be booted from just about any system if you don't include the specific drivers for your system.

This takes some practice, but once you do one or two it's a breeze: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=688872

If you want to keep your drivers and settings you can do so, but it may only run on the system it was built on. Set your file manager to show hidden files, copy your configs (.hiddenfile) to the home directory in the work folder, and then chown the folder and files in the folder to your user name. Also, skip the user removal step, and your login will be available with your username.

You can also use Systemback, and either get a large USB stick to keep data you want handy, or trim it down so you just have your user and program files. Systemback was actually harder for me to use after doing it the other way.

The Ubuntu instructions work very well with Mint 17.x; some things get lost in 18.x, but I can't remember what.

You only need to follow the instructions on the first page. To make internet use easy skip the hostname removal, and to keep your username and password skip the "remove non system user" step.

Arch Enemy , I have to disagree with you on the installation and using Mint on a USB hard drive being painfully slow. As I said in my comment, I have been using a full installation Mint from a USB hard drive for 3 years now. I have installed and use/used full installations of Mint 17.1, 17.2 and Mint 18.2 on Western Digital USB hard drives. I also use Mint 18.1 from the internal hard drive. These are not the USB flash/pen drives and unless I'm misunderstanding, I'm pretty sure what Bob has is not a pen drive either. I have three USB Hard drives; one is a USB 2.0 and the other two are USB 3.0. The difference in speed is not much though the 3.0 USB is of course faster than the 2.0 and the internal drive is a little faster than both but all three USB drives fully functional. The USB drives are 5400 rpm hard drives (I know this because I accidentally **don't ask me how **, opened the case of one of the 3.0 drives) where my internal drive on this laptop is 7200 rpm. In addition to daily regular use, I have been able to participate in online webinars and as an admin for one of my regular Zoom meetings, I can record the meetings and convert them using the Zoom software. I've done this with both the 2.0 and one of the 3.0 USB drives on my other laptop that does not have a 3.0 USB port with the Windows 7 installation on the internal drive of that laptop. I mentioned what I did in my earlier comment on my current laptop. I still from time to time use the USB 3.0 drive as it has Mint 17.2 on it if I'm having an issue with something in Mint 18.1 which I have on the internal drive of this laptop. The nice part of about this is I can use this same USB 3.0 hard drive on my other laptop and do whatever I need to do as that laptop no longer has a hard drive in it.

Bob, on my laptop, I can boot from USB, SD card, DVD/CD drive, network, etc. No order is listed) the laptop will boot into the USB hard drive first. Like on your laptop, my laptop does not show a USB option when the F9/Boot Option is pressed. The key is to take the hard drive out of the laptop prior to the Mint installation on the USB hard drive so that the installer and grub can not see the drive. That way the grub is automatically installed on the USB hard drive. After the installation and all of the necessary setup, you shutdown the Mint/USB hard drive, unplug and reinstall the Windows drive into the laptop. Then when you want to use Linux, you plug in your USB drive to the USB port when the computer is off. Turn it on, it will boot up and you'll see the grub menu with just Linux on it. When you have finished your Linus session, unplug your drive from the computer. You'll have to make sure to unplug the drive before she uses it because as I mentioned, the installer will not have the option to boot into Windows. This is what I call a manual dual boot. It's a safe way to do so because you don't have to worry about fiddling with and worry about messing with either of the grub menus.

Both of my laptops are HPs. This laptop for the 30 days I had Windows 10 on it, I had no problems booting into Windows 10 and the Secure Boot was off.

[Arch_Enemy]

Arch Enemy , I have to disagree with you on the installation and using Mint on a USB hard drive being painfully slow. As I said in my comment, I have been using a full installation Mint from a USB hard drive for 3 years now. I have installed and use/used full installations of Mint 17.1, 17.2 and Mint 18.2 on Western Digital USB hard drives. I also use Mint 18.1 from the internal hard drive. These are not the USB flash/pen drives and unless I'm misunderstanding, I'm pretty sure what Bob has is not a pen drive either. I have three USB Hard drives; one is a USB 2.0 and the other two are USB 3.0. The difference in speed is not much though the 3.0 USB is of course faster than the 2.0 and the internal drive is a little faster than both but all three USB drives fully functional. The USB drives are 5400 rpm hard drives (I know this because I accidentally **don't ask me how **, opened the case of one of the 3.0 drives) where my internal drive on this laptop is 7200 rpm. In addition to daily regular use, I have been able to participate in online webinars and as an admin for one of my regular Zoom meetings, I can record the meetings and convert them using the Zoom software. I've done this with both the 2.0 and one of the 3.0 USB drives on my other laptop that does not have a 3.0 USB port with the Windows 7 installation on the internal drive of that laptop. I mentioned what I did in my earlier comment on my current laptop. I still from time to time use the USB 3.0 drive as it has Mint 17.2 on it if I'm having an issue with something in Mint 18.1 which I have on the internal drive of this laptop. The nice part of about this is I can use this same USB 3.0 hard drive on my other laptop and do whatever I need to do as that laptop no longer has a hard drive in it.

Both of my laptops are HPs. This laptop for the 30 days I had Windows 10 on it, I had no problems booting into Windows 10 and the Secure Boot was off.

I did this once, a while ago; can't remember the distribution. It worked, but it was slow. Perhaps I should try it again...

[Fiduggin67]

Hello

msfullroller - Thank you for that information. Since I last posted, I have done some investigation on it and it appears it going to be more difficult than I am willing to do. First, removing the hard drive from this laptop requires removing the ten screws from the bottom and removing the entitre back cover (it doesn't slide out from the side like others I have had.) I understand the concept behind it and can see why it would work, but my whole reason for doing it was simply to use Linux on the laptop instead of Windows. Even with all the high specs, that laptop is really slow (a full three minutes from start to login window.)

My investigation also suggests that there may be some risk by disabling Secure Boot. That appears to be the only way to boot from anything but the Windows hard drive. Then again, others have reported no change at all in the Windwos boot after disabling it. I'm just not feeling brave enough to risk Windows because the wife does use it. I'm not sure what involvement Microsoft had in the changeover from BIOS to UEFI on modern laptops, but they have sure benefited from it. I am sure I am not the only one who would use Linux on everything, but doesn't because everything is locked into Windows. I haven't attempted anything like this since 2009. It was certainly a lot easier back then.

In any case, I have this 2008 Toshiba laptop (which have Mint 18.3 installed on.) It is surprisingly speedy, and definitely light years faster than the new Windows laptop. I can always use this when I need to do any serious work. It's funny, but I wanted to add a photograph to the login screen on the Windows laptop and had to sign in to my Microsoft account and upload the picture to do it. It couldn't even be done locally on my own property! That really irritated me but was one of the clear examples of why I use Linux.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for the help.

Bob

[austin.texas]

even though the BIOS offers a boot order, when F9 is pressed to select the boot device, the USB boot is not listed. I have re-ordered the boot devices in the BIOS, but it still does not show up. I have read somewhere that Secure Boot must be disable to boot from USB, but Windows will not boot without it. Any thoughts on a work around?

Are you able to boot a live Mint flash drive?

I have one little hoop I have to jump through with my computer. I installed Mint on my external USB hard drive (Toshiba) and it would not boot. I discovered that it would boot if I connected it to a USB 3.0 port, but does not boot when connected to a USB 2.0 port.

P.S. I have been using this Toshiba portable hard drive for many years - more than 7 years, I am sure... I plug it in every week to do my backup.

[msfullroller]

I have one little hoop I have to jump through with my computer. I installed Mint on my external USB hard drive (Toshiba) and it would not boot. I discovered that it would boot if I connected it to a USB 3.0 port, but does not boot when connected to a USB 2.0 port.

P.S. I have been using this Toshiba portable hard drive for many years - more than 7 years, I am sure... I plug it in every week to do my backup.

I've found the same thing but only on my HP 8770w which I thought was kinda weird. Even my USB SD card reader will only read from the USB 3.0 port. Only my flash drive will boot from the USB 2.0 port.