Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

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SweetBearCub
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Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by SweetBearCub » Mon May 27, 2019 4:18 pm

Samsung 840 EVO 1TB, Late 2014.

(Link is a cropped screen shot of SMART test output from Disks)

https://i.imgur.com/u61PNCo.png

What does "Pre-Fail" mean? That it has, or that if anything is there, the drive should be replaced? Etc.

Thanks!

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xenopeek
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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by xenopeek » Mon May 27, 2019 4:41 pm

Pre-Fail is just the type of that attribute, not of the value of the attribute.

It says it failed in the past, so a reserved block was used. I'm guessing but I think that means a block on your SSD went bad or exceeded its write limits, and was swapped out for a fresh block from the spare (reserved) area. As I understand it SMART results are just risk indicators. It doesn't indicate imminent failure.

That said, you should always have a backup regimen in place because disks can also fail suddenly and without prior notice. So double check you have good backups and make them regularly. Ideally make backups to a device not in the same computer and/or not in your home.

Warranty is already expired on the disk. You could consider replacing it now but if you have good backups and can sleep on it, perhaps save the SMART results and re-examine them weekly for the next month and see if any change?
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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by SweetBearCub » Mon May 27, 2019 5:06 pm

Yeah, I'm still trying to understand Timeshift, as far as backups. I want an automatic way to back up the complete contents (home for all users and programs, etc) on my main 1 TB SSD, plus the entire contents of my 4 TB data drive, all compressed and put on my 8 TB backup drive. I had that running using Windows 7 backup, but... Timeshift somehow ran (after I think I included everything) and said that a data drive with over 2 TB used, plus all my user files took up maybe 0.5 TB.

Because of that, I think I did it wrong.

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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by lsemmens » Tue May 28, 2019 12:06 am

My rationale is SSDs are great for the OS (I use a small one for just that) and conventional drives for Data. That way if the SSD fall over in a big way (with little warning) you don't lose much. At least with magnetic media, you get some warning of imminent failure so you can back up the stuff that has occurred since your previous backup.
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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by RIH » Tue May 28, 2019 12:17 am

SweetBearCub wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 5:06 pm
I had that running using Windows 7 backup, but... Timeshift somehow ran (after I think I included everything) and said that a data drive with over 2 TB used, plus all my user files took up maybe 0.5 TB.
Timeshift is not meant as a backup device for personal data.
Have a look at BackInTime, Luckbackup, Deja-dub for data backup routines, or something like Clonezilla to just copy everything - system & data.
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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by xenopeek » Tue May 28, 2019 1:33 am

lsemmens wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:06 am
My rationale is SSDs are great for the OS (I use a small one for just that) and conventional drives for Data. That way if the SSD fall over in a big way (with little warning) you don't lose much. At least with magnetic media, you get some warning of imminent failure so you can back up the stuff that has occurred since your previous backup.
I think that's bad advice as it's mostly magnetic drives that fail suddenly and without prior notice. About 2 in 5 magnetic drives that fail do so without showing anything amiss in SMART.
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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by gm10 » Tue May 28, 2019 2:08 am

xenopeek wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 4:41 pm
It says it failed in the past, so a reserved block was used. I'm guessing but I think that means a block on your SSD went bad or exceeded its write limits, and was swapped out for a fresh block from the spare (reserved) area. As I understand it SMART results are just risk indicators. It doesn't indicate imminent failure.
True, but there's some SSDs out there where the firmware has a hard-fail condition based on SMART data. Basically if the drives lives longer than they want it to or starts accumulating a certain number of relocates the firmware shuts it down permanently. Luckily not many of them do that.
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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by lsemmens » Tue May 28, 2019 10:40 pm

xenopeek wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 1:33 am
lsemmens wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 12:06 am
My rationale is SSDs are great for the OS (I use a small one for just that) and conventional drives for Data. That way if the SSD fall over in a big way (with little warning) you don't lose much. At least with magnetic media, you get some warning of imminent failure so you can back up the stuff that has occurred since your previous backup.
I think that's bad advice as it's mostly magnetic drives that fail suddenly and without prior notice. About 2 in 5 magnetic drives that fail do so without showing anything amiss in SMART.
Interesting, that has not been my experience at all. I've still got a pile of old 80Gb drives, some of which are still in service. The only reason I ever pension them off is when they are too small to do a job any more, or I need room for a bigger drive in my system.
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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by xenopeek » Wed May 29, 2019 2:34 am

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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by SweetBearCub » Wed May 29, 2019 3:00 am

Are you trying to say that the SMART failure in my drive should be something to worry about, or not?

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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by xenopeek » Wed May 29, 2019 3:29 am

Sorry, that was a reply to lsemmens. That link is about magnetic drives, not SSDs, where it shows that SMART is not reliable early indicator for drive failure (making argument again for backups).

Personally I'd not throw the SSD away for this one warning. I'd do what I said earlier; ensure good backups and monitor SMART results for change for say a month. If no numbers worsen I'd assume it a one-off. If numbers worsen, replace it. If you can't sleep on that, replace it now.
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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by SweetBearCub » Wed May 29, 2019 3:39 am

xenopeek wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 3:29 am
Sorry, that was a reply to lsemmens. That link is about magnetic drives, not SSDs, where it shows that SMART is not reliable early indicator for drive failure (making argument again for backups).

Personally I'd not throw the SSD away for this one warning. I'd do what I said earlier; ensure good backups and monitor SMART results for change for say a month. If no numbers worsen I'd assume it a one-off. If numbers worsen, replace it. If you can't sleep on that, replace it now.
I have another thread going where I laid out my backup needs and asked for recommendations. Take a look. viewtopic.php?p=1639468

On Windows 7, I made good use of the included system image and file backups tool.

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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by lsemmens » Wed May 29, 2019 5:02 am

Sorry, I caused a slight Thread drift, with my mechanical drive comments. If a mechanical drive fails (mechanically - which is possible) there are methods (not necessarily cheap) whereby you can recover data. I'm not so certain with SSDs, unless, of course you are handy with a soldering iron (tongue firmly planted in cheek)
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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by greerd » Wed May 29, 2019 6:02 am

Just an FYI,

My Samsung SSD 840 EVO 250GB has been showing the same warning for over 2 years (more than half it's life).

Code: Select all

...
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 1
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   090   090   000    Old_age   Always       -       48813
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       303
177 Wear_Leveling_Count     0x0013   096   096   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       43
179 Used_Rsvd_Blk_Cnt_Tot   0x0013   100   001   010    Pre-fail  Always   In_the_past 0
181 Program_Fail_Cnt_Total  0x0032   100   100   010    Old_age   Always       -       0
182 Erase_Fail_Count_Total  0x0032   100   100   010    Old_age   Always       -       0
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0013   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
187 Uncorrectable_Error_Cnt 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0032   051   040   000    Old_age   Always       -       49
195 ECC_Error_Rate          0x001a   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
199 CRC_Error_Count         0x003e   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
235 POR_Recovery_Count      0x0012   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       257
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       24887882453
...
As far as I know, the attribute to be worried about with these SSD's is #177 the Wear Leveling Count. Your's looks better that mine in this regard.

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Re: Is my SSD going bad, or is this normal for its age?

Post by SweetBearCub » Wed May 29, 2019 10:51 am

Thanks. I guess I'll try not to worry too much, and keep looking for a backup solution that suits my needs.
greerd wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 6:02 am
Just an FYI,

My Samsung SSD 840 EVO 250GB has been showing the same warning for over 2 years (more than half it's life).

Code: Select all

...
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 1
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   090   090   000    Old_age   Always       -       48813
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       303
177 Wear_Leveling_Count     0x0013   096   096   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       43
179 Used_Rsvd_Blk_Cnt_Tot   0x0013   100   001   010    Pre-fail  Always   In_the_past 0
181 Program_Fail_Cnt_Total  0x0032   100   100   010    Old_age   Always       -       0
182 Erase_Fail_Count_Total  0x0032   100   100   010    Old_age   Always       -       0
183 Runtime_Bad_Block       0x0013   100   100   010    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
187 Uncorrectable_Error_Cnt 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0032   051   040   000    Old_age   Always       -       49
195 ECC_Error_Rate          0x001a   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
199 CRC_Error_Count         0x003e   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
235 POR_Recovery_Count      0x0012   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       257
241 Total_LBAs_Written      0x0032   099   099   000    Old_age   Always       -       24887882453
...
As far as I know, the attribute to be worried about with these SSD's is #177 the Wear Leveling Count. Your's looks better that mine in this regard.

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