Odd power up problem [solved?]

[timmn1]

I recently replaced my motherboard because some of the USB ports quit working, and now I have a different problem when I turn the computer on:

If the computer has been off for awhile, when I press the power button, the power led comes on, along with all the fans, no BIOS beep, and then a few seconds later, it goes off. If I wait a few more seconds, without touching the computer, the power led and fan turns on again, I get the BIOS beep, and it boots normally.

When I replaced the motherboard, I simply took the CPU and expansion cards out of the old motherboard and put it in the new one, I had to replace the memory modules because one of the old ones went bad also.

Once the computer turns on, it works just fine, in fact, I'm using it to type this post. I'm just wondering what may be causing this, and if I should be worried about it.

Here is the output from inxi:

Code: Select all

System:    Kernel: 5.8.0-50-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: N/A Desktop: Cinnamon 4.8.6 
           wm: muffin dm: LightDM Distro: Linux Mint 20.1 Ulyssa base: Ubuntu 20.04 focal 
Machine:   Type: Desktop Mobo: ASUSTeK model: TUF B450-PLUS GAMING v: Rev X.0x serial: <filter> 
           UEFI: American Megatrends v: 2807 date: 02/01/2021 
Battery:   Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech Wireless Mouse serial: <filter> 
           charge: 55% (should be ignored) status: Discharging 
           Device-2: hidpp_battery_1 model: Logitech Wireless Solar Keyboard K750 serial: <filter> 
           charge: 100% status: Full 
CPU:       Topology: Quad Core model: AMD Ryzen 3 1200 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Zen rev: 1 
           L2 cache: 2048 KiB 
           flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm bogomips: 28001 
           Speed: 1400 MHz min/max: 1550/3500 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1400 2: 3500 3: 1408 
           4: 1375 
Graphics:  Device-1: NVIDIA GK104 [GeForce GTX 760 OEM] vendor: PC Partner Limited / Sapphire 
           driver: nvidia v: 460.73.01 bus ID: 08:00.0 chip ID: 10de:118e 
           Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.9 driver: nvidia 
           unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz 
           OpenGL: renderer: GeForce GTX 760 (192-bit)/PCIe/SSE2 v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 460.73.01 
           direct render: Yes 
Audio:     Device-1: NVIDIA GK104 HDMI Audio vendor: PC Partner Limited / Sapphire 
           driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 08:00.1 chip ID: 10de:0e0a 
           Device-2: AMD Family 17h HD Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel 
           bus ID: 0a:00.3 chip ID: 1022:1457 
           Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.8.0-50-generic 
Network:   Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet vendor: ASUSTeK 
           driver: r8169 v: kernel port: f000 bus ID: 03:00.0 chip ID: 10ec:8168 
           IF: enp3s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
           Device-2: Intel Wireless 8260 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel port: f000 bus ID: 07:00.0 
           chip ID: 8086:24f3 
           IF: wlp7s0 state: up mac: <filter> 
Drives:    Local Storage: total: 931.51 GiB used: 23.93 GiB (2.6%) 
           ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST1000DX002-2DV162 size: 931.51 GiB 
           speed: 6.0 Gb/s serial: <filter> 
Partition: ID-1: / size: 915.40 GiB used: 23.92 GiB (2.6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda2 
USB:       Hub: 1-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 10 rev: 2.0 chip ID: 1d6b:0002 
           Device-1: 1-6:2 info: Intel type: Bluetooth driver: btusb rev: 2.0 chip ID: 8087:0a2b 
           Device-2: 1-7:3 info: Logitech Unifying Receiver type: Keyboard,Mouse,HID 
           driver: logitech-djreceiver,usbhid rev: 2.0 chip ID: 046d:c52b 
           Hub: 2-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 4 rev: 3.1 chip ID: 1d6b:0003 
           Hub: 3-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 4 rev: 2.0 chip ID: 1d6b:0002 
           Hub: 4-0:1 info: Full speed (or root) Hub ports: 4 rev: 3.0 chip ID: 1d6b:0003 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 41.0 C mobo: 27.0 C gpu: nvidia temp: 35 C 
           Fan Speeds (RPM): cpu: 1320 mobo: 931 fan-4: 0 fan-6: 0 gpu: nvidia fan: 28% 
           Voltages: 12v: N/A 5v: N/A 3.3v: 3.33 vbat: 3.25 
Repos:     No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list 
           1: deb http: //packages.linuxmint.com ulyssa main upstream import backport #id:linuxmint_main
           2: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal main restricted universe multiverse
           3: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-updates main restricted universe multiverse
           4: deb http: //archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-backports main restricted universe multiverse
           5: deb http: //security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-security main restricted universe multiverse
           6: deb http: //archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ focal partner
           Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/spotify.list 
           1: deb http: //repository.spotify.com stable non-free
Info:      Processes: 231 Uptime: 22m Memory: 15.61 GiB used: 1.81 GiB (11.6%) Init: systemd 
           v: 245 runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 9.3.0 alt: 9 Client: Unknown python3.8 client 
           inxi: 3.0.38 

[rene]

If the computer has been off for a awhile, you say. Is it when power has been removed completely? When you for example turn a power strip completely off for the night or some such? If so I believe it's not necessarily a problem and the system is retraining e.g. memory.

Or I would expect a CMOS-battery problem that causes basically the same after it depletes (although you'd supposedly be able to tell by noting that any custom BIOS setting is then also gone).

[Moonstone Man]

Or I would expect a CMOS-battery problem that causes basically the same after it depletes (although you'd supposedly be able to tell by noting that any custom BIOS setting is then also gone).

Hardly likely on a new MB.

[Moonstone Man]

When I replaced the motherboard, I simply took the CPU and expansion cards out of the old motherboard and put it in the new one, I had to replace the memory modules because one of the old ones went bad also.

What you seem to be experiencing is training, i.e. the BIOS is training itself to deal with the CPU, RAM, drives, video etc. What you describe has the hallmarks of BIOS training.

Normally you would expect the BIOS to issue a message saying that the BIOS has been reset, then it would go into BIOS settings, but you make no mention of it. You also don't mention having to set up the BIOS on the new board, and that is what you need to do. You need to get the manual for the board, read it, understand it, and set the board's BIOS accordingly. Until you've done that, your problem has nothing to do with any operating system.

[timmn1]

I'll try going into the BIOS and setting it up again, but I seem to remember that when I turned it on for the first time, it gave me a message like "A new CPU had been installed" and then it gave me the option to go into setup or accept the defaults. I'm fairly sure I went into setup.

[rene]

Hardly likely on a new MB.

I agree but I found a report when googling for same and it got solved by a new battery. But yes, I said the same thing you did in the bit you snipped, together with as a result of seeing a moderator say such on an official Asus forum this perhaps being expected on some models if power was completely removed. Which question to poster it would as such be good to have answered.

(now in bed; don't have those forum links handy here)

[Moonstone Man]

But yes, I said the same thing you did in the bit you snipped...

Indeed you did.

Rest well.

[rene]

Definitely FWIW because personally I'd feel that moderator is probably full of it, and moreover it's about a very different board (Asus Maximus VII Ranger), but...

https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.p ... cold-boot)

The battery one was this one. Asus Maximimum XI Extreme, also a new board then. Thread not necessarily agrees, but at least OP was certain...

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/thre ... st-4197198

Yah, both Maximus boards, but at least also both Asus. And as said, the fully-powered off thing would at least be easy to confirm./deny --- but I expect poster may have lost a bit of faith in replies by me since I stuck him with a particularly stupid initial reply to a previous question: I interpreted AMD Series-A as potentially referring to 20-year old 32-bit socket/slot A CPUs; admittedly nary a better indication of internet forum-blabberer is available, so I don't blame him/her; that post still hurts

[timmn1]

I did have it connected to an old power switch thing (sits under the monitor, has 6 switches, one labelled Master, next one Computer, then Monitor, etc.) anyway, I left the power on to the computer on all night, and this morning, I pushed the power button, and it booted right up. So, I guess the next step is to get a new battery, and see if that solves the problem. Then, if that doesn't work, I'll have to take the matter up with ASUS.

Thanks for all your help.

[rene]

OK. I am though as said not completely sure that the behaviour is not as expected when power is removed, due to that Asus-moderator saying it was expected on Maximus boards at least. It's not the thing I'd like (either) but, well, maybe it's just one of those aspects of (some) new boards that I've just missed to note.

[timmn1]

The one thing that's really odd is I have another computer (I have a whole collection of them) that has a ASUS TUF Gaming B450M-Plus II motherboard which seems to be the mini-ATX version of the motherboard I was asking about, and it doesn't do it.

The differences between the boards is the memory manufacturer, and the CPU, the Plus II has a Ryzen 3 3200G and memory manufactured by Corsair.
The memory in the board I was asking about was made by OLOy, I've never heard of them before, and the only reason I bought them at the time was because they were inexpensive. This may be a long-shot, but I wonder if the memory could somehow be causing the motherboard to do the strange boot after the power to the computer is turned off.

[rene]

Well, supposedly, although perhaps not so much expectedly. I'd first of all probably try swapping CMOS batteries and see if the issue follows the battery. Yes, and/or swap DIMMs I suppose. It in any case seems a sign that, no, this should not be considered normal.

[timmn1]

I contacted support at ASUS and they called, but I wasn't home at the time, so they sent me an email. One of the things they suggested was to check their QVL (Qualified Vendor List), so I did, and OLOy isn't on it, so I suppose they will blame the memory on that alone. However, I did switch the memory from the other motherboard, and the problem went away. So I contacted OLOy and see what they say, but they automatically issue an RMA, and I don't want to put that computer out of action for any length of time, so I will see what they say, because they are supposed to contact me with a return address.

If anyone is interested, the website for OLOy is www.oloymemory.com

[rene]

Thanks for noting; interesting. One wonders what aspect of a DIMM would cause a board to retrain only that DIMM / those DIMMs and especially only when power has been fully removed. Dodgy/slow-responding SPD chip so board thinks it has a new DIMM? No idea really but would then give it some chance that a warranty-exchange could be functional.

[timmn1]

Just got an email from OLOy, if it wasn't so long, I'd post the whole thing here, they want me to jump through a bunch of hoops to prove that their memory is bad, and then, if I can prove it, I must send the memory to Taiwan at my expense. So much for their "lifetime warranty". Frankly, I don't think the memory is actually bad, it's probably more of a compatibility issue. I'll put the memory back in the computer and just live with the way it boots after the power has been turned off. If I have learned anything from this, it's that I will never, ever, buy memory from a company I've never heard of, simply because they were cheap.

[powerwagon75]

A couple thoughts come to mind. Specs don’t always seem to play as nice in real life as they should.

Your CPU is capable of high memory speeds, up to 4400 MHz. But, anything over 2666 MHz is considered over-clocking. Can you run sudo inxi -Dm and reply the results.

Anecdotally, my MSI board is supposed to be capable of over clocking DDR4. When I had two sticks (16GB) installed, I ran it right around 3000 MHz. After I upgraded to 32 GB (4 sticks), the board would crash and restart, very similar to your original reported symptom. After aborting/restarting, the memory would be reset to the minimum speed (2133 MHz). I had to slow it down and repetitively abort/restart until I found what speed would hold. Ended up that it will only run a max over-clock (OC) of 2380 MHz with 4 sticks of memory. (I had tweaked memory timings as well per recommendation for the memory I have, but it ended up being a very small adjustment, and frequency clearly appeared to be the issue.)

If you have XMP or some such auto-memory OC setting enabled by default, enter into bios and disable it. I suspect your memory may come on line at 2133 MHz, if not prompted by OC. If this proves to possibly be the case, you could then reboot/re-enter bios, and enter a slightly faster memory speed and try again.

Memory Specs for your CPU: 4 x DIMM, Max. 128GB, DDR4 4400(O.C)/3466(O.C.)/3200(O.C.)/3000(O.C.)/2800(O.C.)/2666/
2400/2133 MHz Un-buffered Memory

Could you also post complete model number of your memory sticks?

[timmn1]

Here is the output:

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Memory:
  RAM: total: 15.61 GiB used: 1.39 GiB (8.9%) 
  Array-1: capacity: 128 GiB slots: 4 EC: None 
  Device-1: DIMM_A1 size: No Module Installed 
  Device-2: DIMM_A2 size: 8 GiB speed: 3000 MT/s 
  Device-3: DIMM_B1 size: No Module Installed 
  Device-4: DIMM_B2 size: 8 GiB speed: 3000 MT/s 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 931.51 GiB used: 27.72 GiB (3.0%) 
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST1000DX002-2DV162 size: 931.51 GiB 
  

The model number for the sticks is:
MD4U0830160BHIDA
This is what follows the model number:
PC4 24000 3000Mhz
CL16 1.35V
8GB x 2 Kit

I put the sticks back in the computer and am on it now, other than that odd booting issue, it seems to run just fine. I will change the BIOS settings in the morning as it is rather late here.

Thanks

[rene]

After I upgraded to 32 GB (4 sticks), the board would crash and restart, very similar to your original reported symptom.

Note though that he doesn't in fact crash and moreover that all is fine even unless he fully removed power; it to seemingly be a retraining issue, hence supposedly one of the OLOy DIMMs not reacting quickly enough to SPD access or some such. Which isn't to say that reconfiguring to 2666 isn't a good idea mind you, but technically I would expect that trouble occurs even before the board setting speed given that all's fine when power has NOT been removed.

[powerwagon75]

After I upgraded to 32 GB (4 sticks), the board would crash and restart, very similar to your original reported symptom.

Note though that he doesn't in fact crash and moreover that all is fine even unless he fully removed power; it to seemingly be a retraining issue, hence supposedly one of the OLOy DIMMs not reacting quickly enough to SPD access or some such. Which isn't to say that reconfiguring to 2666 isn't a good idea mind you, but technically I would expect that trouble occurs even before the board setting speed given that all's fine when power has NOT been removed.

Agreed. I had edited and meant to get rid of all references to "crash." Its more of a start-abort-reset-restart, which would be the retraining process I guess, as it would actually put all settings back to default (had to re-do all my fan maps every time.) A little disconcerting to observe, as it was only on a few seconds, fans ramped up for initial self-test(?) and then goes off like you pulled the plug.

So now that we know the board is indeed setting them to 3000, I also agree that manually setting them to 2600 or lower as a test, to see if the quirk goes away, is worthwhile.

edit: I just noticed that the OP's response shows 3000 MT/s, not the frequency. If one installs pinxi, then runs the command sudo pinxi -Dm you'll get this:

Code: Select all

Memory:    RAM: total: 31.31 GiB used: 4.95 GiB (15.8%) 
           Array-1: capacity: 64 GiB slots: 4 EC: None 
           Device-1: ChannelA-DIMM0 size: 8 GiB speed: 4760 MT/s (2380 MHz) 
           Device-2: ChannelA-DIMM1 size: 8 GiB speed: 4760 MT/s (2380 MHz) 
           Device-3: ChannelB-DIMM0 size: 8 GiB speed: 4760 MT/s (2380 MHz) 
           Device-4: ChannelB-DIMM1 size: 8 GiB speed: 4760 MT/s (2380 MHz)

MT/s seems to be a value that is double the frequency. Don't know if it holds true on a linear scale, but if so, that would mean the OP's memory is only running at 1500 Mhz, which doesn't seem likely.

[timmn1]

I reset the BIOS, here is the output from inxi:

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Memory:
  RAM: total: 15.61 GiB used: 881.9 MiB (5.5%) 
  Array-1: capacity: 128 GiB slots: 4 EC: None 
  Device-1: DIMM_A1 size: No Module Installed 
  Device-2: DIMM_A2 size: 8 GiB speed: 2666 MT/s 
  Device-3: DIMM_B1 size: No Module Installed 
  Device-4: DIMM_B2 size: 8 GiB speed: 2666 MT/s 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 931.51 GiB used: 27.68 GiB (3.0%) 
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST1000DX002-2DV162 size: 931.51 GiB 
  

I will try a boot from power off and will see what happens.