Issues with 6900 XT

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Caboose30
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Issues with 6900 XT

Post by Caboose30 »

I did read around first, and found multiple forum posts with other 6900 XT issues that have been resolved, and I have mine mostly fixed. The short version is this, I have two kernels installed right now - 5.11.0-25 where the driver doesn't load properly, and 5.11.0-22 where it does. In the -25 kernel, I don't have multiple displays, I can't adjust display scaling, all the things you would expect from an unloaded driver. However certain 3D and other applications load, mainly Kdenlive which I depend on. In -22, the driver loads (little glitchy here and there), I'd adjusted the displays how I want, but when I try to run Kdenlive it gives me an error that it's unable to initalize GLX, which I've been unable to resolve. Also, when I try to run a steam game with native Linux support like Xcom it instantly crashes. I'm not super good with the terminal and I'm not sure what info anyone will need to assist, my basic hardware specs are below. I loaded the latest driver and I'm pretty sure I installed it with Open CL support. The exact command I ran is: sudo ./amdgpu-pro-install --opencl=rocr

GigaByte x570 Aorus Xtreme MB
Ryzen 3950X
35GB RAM
Radeon 6900 XT
Last edited by LockBot on Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Topic automatically closed 6 months after creation. New replies are no longer allowed.
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Larry78723
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by Larry78723 »

Please post an inxi -Fxxxzr report. This will give us a concise overview of your hardware and how Mint sees it.

Here is how to generate the report and post it:
Open a terminal window (Ctrl-Alt-t). Make it fullscreen to avoid unneeded linebreaks or chopped lines. Execute the command

Code: Select all

 inxi -Fxxxzr 
exactly as it has been typed here.

Mark the complete text output which the command will display with your mouse.
Press the keyboard shortcut <Shift><Ctrl>C to copy the marked text into the clipboard.
Enclose the results between the code markers by selecting </> from the mini toolbar above the textbox where you type your reply then paste <Ctrl>V them in your reply between the code markers [code]Results [/code].
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If you have found the solution to your initial post, please open your original post, click on the pencil, and add (Solved) to the Subject, it helps other users looking for help, and keeps the forum clean.
Caboose30
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by Caboose30 »

Here you go. I this is the -22 kernel with the driver kinda working but things that depend on it not. Also I should mention I know enough of the terminal to be useful, I can install and remove packages and compile some thing, so the basic basic stuff I already have.

Code: Select all

[caboose@LinuxFlagship ~]$ inxi -Fxxxzr
System:
  Kernel: 5.11.0-22-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: N/A 
  Desktop: Cinnamon 5.0.5 wm: muffin dm: LightDM 1.30.0 
  Distro: Linux Mint 20.2 Uma base: Ubuntu 20.04 focal 
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: Gigabyte product: X570 AORUS XTREME v: -CF 
  serial: <filter> 
  Mobo: Gigabyte model: X570 AORUS XTREME v: x.x serial: <filter> 
  UEFI: American Megatrends v: F22 date: 08/20/2020 
Battery:
  ID-1: hidpp_battery_0 charge: N/A condition: N/A volts: 4.0/N/A 
  model: Logitech G903 LIGHTSPEED Wireless Gaming Mouse w/ HERO type: N/A 
  serial: <filter> status: Discharging 
CPU:
  Topology: 16-Core (2-Die) model: AMD Ryzen 9 3950X bits: 64 
  type: MT MCP MCM arch: Zen L2 cache: 8192 KiB 
  flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm 
  bogomips: 224006 
  Speed: 2200 MHz min/max: 2200/3500 MHz boost: enabled Core speeds (MHz): 
  1: 2200 2: 2204 3: 2200 4: 2195 5: 2202 6: 2196 7: 2200 8: 2199 9: 2198 
  10: 2193 11: 2205 12: 2124 13: 2149 14: 2199 15: 2199 16: 2197 17: 2200 
  18: 2196 19: 2196 20: 2195 21: 2206 22: 2199 23: 2197 24: 2200 25: 2199 
  26: 2199 27: 2199 28: 2196 29: 2199 30: 2200 31: 2200 32: 2198 
Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD driver: amdgpu v: 5.11.5.21.20 bus ID: 0e:00.0 
  chip ID: 1002:73bf 
  Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.9 driver: amdgpu,ati 
  unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,radeon,vesa 
  resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz, 3840x2160~60Hz 
  OpenGL: renderer: AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT 
  v: 4.6.14739 Core Profile Context 21.20 compat-v: 4.6.14739 
  direct render: Yes 
Audio:
  Device-1: AMD driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 0e:00.1 
  chip ID: 1002:ab28 
  Device-2: AMD Starship/Matisse HD Audio vendor: Gigabyte 
  driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 10:00.4 chip ID: 1022:1487 
  Device-3: Logitech type: USB driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid 
  bus ID: 1-4.1:4 chip ID: 046d:0a87 
  Device-4: C-Media Blue Snowball type: USB 
  driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid bus ID: 7-4:2 chip ID: 0d8c:0005 
  serial: <filter> 
  Device-5: C-Media type: USB driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid 
  bus ID: 1-4.3:6 chip ID: 0d8c:01c2 
  Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.11.0-22-generic 
Network:
  Device-1: Aquantia AQC107 NBase-T/IEEE 802.3bz Ethernet [AQtion] 
  vendor: Gigabyte driver: atlantic v: kernel port: e000 bus ID: 06:00.0 
  chip ID: 1d6a:d107 
  IF: enp6s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
  Device-2: Intel I211 Gigabit Network vendor: Gigabyte driver: igb 
  v: kernel port: d000 bus ID: 07:00.0 chip ID: 8086:1539 
  IF: enp7s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
  Device-3: Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel port: d000 
  bus ID: 08:00.0 chip ID: 8086:2723 
  IF: wlp8s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 2.73 TiB used: 1.19 TiB (43.8%) 
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Samsung model: MZVLB1T0HALR-000L7 
  size: 953.87 GiB speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 serial: <filter> rev: 5L2QEXA7 
  scheme: GPT 
  ID-2: /dev/nvme1n1 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 950 PRO 512GB 
  size: 476.94 GiB speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 serial: <filter> rev: 1B0QBXX7 
  scheme: MBR 
  ID-3: /dev/nvme2n1 vendor: Crucial model: CT1000P1SSD8 size: 931.51 GiB 
  speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 serial: <filter> rev: P3CR010 scheme: GPT 
  ID-4: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST2000DM001-1CH164 size: 1.82 TiB 
  speed: 6.0 Gb/s rotation: 7200 rpm serial: <filter> rev: CC27 scheme: GPT 
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 76.96 GiB used: 13.61 GiB (17.7%) fs: ext4 
  dev: /dev/nvme2n1p1 
  ID-2: /home size: 806.59 GiB used: 200.86 GiB (24.9%) fs: ext4 
  dev: /dev/nvme2n1p3 
  ID-3: swap-1 size: 32.35 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap 
  dev: /dev/nvme2n1p2 
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 38.8 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 56 C 
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: amdgpu fan: 0 
Repos:
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/amdgpu-pro-local.list 
  1: deb [ trusted=yes ] file:/var/opt/amdgpu-pro-local/ ./
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list 
  1: deb http://packages.linuxmint.com uma main upstream import backport #id:linuxmint_main
  2: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal main restricted universe multiverse
  3: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-updates main restricted universe multiverse
  4: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-backports main restricted universe multiverse
  5: deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-security main restricted universe multiverse
  6: deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ focal partner
Info:
  Processes: 554 Uptime: 2m Memory: 31.36 GiB used: 1.76 GiB (5.6%) 
  Init: systemd v: 245 runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 9.3.0 alt: 9 Shell: bash 
  v: 5.0.17 running in: gnome-terminal inxi: 3.0.38 
Last edited by Caboose30 on Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Caboose30
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by Caboose30 »

Here's the -25 output. Posting just for the GPU driver difference.

Code: Select all

[caboose@LinuxFlagship ~]$ inxi -Fxxxzr
System:
  Kernel: 5.11.0-25-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: N/A 
  Desktop: Cinnamon 5.0.5 info: mate-panel wm: Metacity 3.36.1 
  dm: LightDM 1.30.0 Distro: Linux Mint 20.2 Uma base: Ubuntu 20.04 focal 
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: Gigabyte product: X570 AORUS XTREME v: -CF 
  serial: <filter> 
  Mobo: Gigabyte model: X570 AORUS XTREME v: x.x serial: <filter> 
  UEFI: American Megatrends v: F22 date: 08/20/2020 
Battery:
  ID-1: hidpp_battery_0 charge: N/A condition: N/A volts: 4.0/N/A 
  model: Logitech G903 LIGHTSPEED Wireless Gaming Mouse w/ HERO type: N/A 
  serial: <filter> status: Discharging 
CPU:
  Topology: 16-Core (2-Die) model: AMD Ryzen 9 3950X bits: 64 
  type: MT MCP MCM arch: Zen L2 cache: 8192 KiB 
  flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm 
  bogomips: 224016 
  Speed: 2205 MHz min/max: 2200/3500 MHz boost: enabled Core speeds (MHz): 
  1: 2200 2: 2197 3: 2200 4: 2196 5: 2199 6: 2197 7: 2191 8: 2201 9: 2199 
  10: 2200 11: 2198 12: 2193 13: 2201 14: 2199 15: 2200 16: 2200 17: 2197 
  18: 2199 19: 2197 20: 2200 21: 2195 22: 2196 23: 2198 24: 2196 25: 2203 
  26: 2197 27: 2200 28: 2203 29: 2201 30: 2196 31: 2200 32: 2200 
Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD driver: N/A bus ID: 0e:00.0 chip ID: 1002:73bf 
  Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.9 driver: ati,vesa 
  unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,radeon resolution: 2560x1440~N/A 
  OpenGL: renderer: N/A v: N/A direct render: N/A 
Audio:
  Device-1: AMD driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 0e:00.1 
  chip ID: 1002:ab28 
  Device-2: AMD Starship/Matisse HD Audio vendor: Gigabyte 
  driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 10:00.4 chip ID: 1022:1487 
  Device-3: C-Media Blue Snowball type: USB 
  driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid bus ID: 7-4:2 chip ID: 0d8c:0005 
  serial: <filter> 
  Device-4: Logitech type: USB driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid 
  bus ID: 1-4.1:4 chip ID: 046d:0a87 
  Device-5: C-Media type: USB driver: hid-generic,snd-usb-audio,usbhid 
  bus ID: 1-4.3:6 chip ID: 0d8c:01c2 
  Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.11.0-25-generic 
Network:
  Device-1: Aquantia AQC107 NBase-T/IEEE 802.3bz Ethernet [AQtion] 
  vendor: Gigabyte driver: atlantic v: kernel port: e000 bus ID: 06:00.0 
  chip ID: 1d6a:d107 
  IF: enp6s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
  Device-2: Intel I211 Gigabit Network vendor: Gigabyte driver: igb 
  v: kernel port: d000 bus ID: 07:00.0 chip ID: 8086:1539 
  IF: enp7s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
  Device-3: Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX200 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel port: d000 
  bus ID: 08:00.0 chip ID: 8086:2723 
  IF: wlp8s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 2.73 TiB used: 1.19 TiB (43.8%) 
  ID-1: /dev/nvme0n1 vendor: Samsung model: MZVLB1T0HALR-000L7 
  size: 953.87 GiB speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 serial: <filter> rev: 5L2QEXA7 
  scheme: GPT 
  ID-2: /dev/nvme1n1 vendor: Samsung model: SSD 950 PRO 512GB 
  size: 476.94 GiB speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 serial: <filter> rev: 1B0QBXX7 
  scheme: MBR 
  ID-3: /dev/nvme2n1 vendor: Crucial model: CT1000P1SSD8 size: 931.51 GiB 
  speed: 31.6 Gb/s lanes: 4 serial: <filter> rev: P3CR010 scheme: GPT 
  ID-4: /dev/sda vendor: Seagate model: ST2000DM001-1CH164 size: 1.82 TiB 
  speed: 6.0 Gb/s rotation: 7200 rpm serial: <filter> rev: CC27 scheme: GPT 
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 76.96 GiB used: 13.56 GiB (17.6%) fs: ext4 
  dev: /dev/nvme2n1p1 
  ID-2: /home size: 806.59 GiB used: 200.86 GiB (24.9%) fs: ext4 
  dev: /dev/nvme2n1p3 
  ID-3: swap-1 size: 32.35 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap 
  dev: /dev/nvme2n1p2 
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 37.2 C mobo: N/A 
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Repos:
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/amdgpu-pro-local.list 
  1: deb [ trusted=yes ] file:/var/opt/amdgpu-pro-local/ ./
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list 
  1: deb http://packages.linuxmint.com uma main upstream import backport #id:linuxmint_main
  2: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal main restricted universe multiverse
  3: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-updates main restricted universe multiverse
  4: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-backports main restricted universe multiverse
  5: deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-security main restricted universe multiverse
  6: deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ focal partner
Info:
  Processes: 525 Uptime: N/A Memory: 31.36 GiB used: 1011.3 MiB (3.1%) 
  Init: systemd v: 245 runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 9.3.0 alt: 9 Shell: bash 
  v: 5.0.17 running in: mate-terminal inxi: 3.0.38 
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SMG
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by SMG »

Caboose30 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:24 pm Here's the -25 output. Posting just for the GPU driver difference.
Maybe the graphics driver you installed does not work with the newer kernel. I do not know what versions AMD tested against.

Graphics:
Device-1: AMD driver: N/A bus ID: 0e:00.0 chip ID: 1002:73bf
Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.9 driver: ati,vesa
unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,radeon resolution: 2560x1440~N/A
OpenGL: renderer: N/A v: N/A direct render: N/A

I know AMD has made fixes to their proprietary drivers when issues have come up in Ubuntu kernels in the past. Because you are not using the driver provided in the kernel, this would not be an Ubuntu/Mint issue.

What problem were you having with the driver provided in the kernel that you decided to install the one from the AMD website?

You could check cat /var/log/gpu-manager.log and maybe it will indicate what is happening.
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Caboose30
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by Caboose30 »

Basically anything that needs GLX libraries won't load. Other 3D software like games from Steam also crash immediately on launch. I'll dig into it some more tomorrow and give you some exact error output.

I didn't think this was a Mint issue exactly, but I didn't know what the issue was and I would like this card to work in Linux.
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by Caboose30 »

The kernel provided driver frankly doesn't work. I only have one of my three displays, it doesn't detect what it is at all, and I can't set the resolution of it. Here's the -25 output.
And again, with the driver running in -22, things that need GLX won't run, and most 3D applications won't either.

Code: Select all

[caboose@LinuxFlagship ~]$ cat /var/log/gpu-manager.log
log_file: /var/log/gpu-manager.log
last_boot_file: /var/lib/ubuntu-drivers-common/last_gfx_boot
new_boot_file: /var/lib/ubuntu-drivers-common/last_gfx_boot
can't access /run/u-d-c-nvidia-was-loaded file
can't access /opt/amdgpu-pro/bin/amdgpu-pro-px
Looking for nvidia modules in /lib/modules/5.11.0-25-generic/kernel
Looking for nvidia modules in /lib/modules/5.11.0-25-generic/updates/dkms
Looking for amdgpu modules in /lib/modules/5.11.0-25-generic/kernel
Looking for amdgpu modules in /lib/modules/5.11.0-25-generic/updates/dkms
Is nvidia loaded? no
Was nvidia unloaded? no
Is nvidia blacklisted? no
Is intel loaded? no
Is radeon loaded? no
Is radeon blacklisted? yes
Is amdgpu loaded? yes
Is amdgpu blacklisted? no
Is amdgpu versioned? yes
Is amdgpu pro stack? no
Is nouveau loaded? no
Is nouveau blacklisted? no
Is nvidia kernel module available? no
Is amdgpu kernel module available? no
Vendor/Device Id: 1002:73bf
BusID "PCI:14@0:0:0"
Is boot vga? yes
Error: can't access /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:0e:00.0/driver
The device is not bound to any driver.
Error : Failed to open /dev/dri
Error : Failed to open /dev/dri
Error : Failed to open /dev/dri
Error : Failed to open /dev/dri
Does it require offloading? no
last cards number = 1
Has amd? yes
Has intel? no
Has nvidia? no
How many cards? 1
Has the system changed? No
Single card detected
Nothing to do
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by SMG »

Caboose30 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:36 am The kernel provided driver frankly doesn't work. I only have one of my three displays, it doesn't detect what it is at all, and I can't set the resolution of it.
Did you install the firmware for the 6900 XT? Check the info/links in this thread [Solved] Two questions about getting 6900 xt installed - Firmware and kernel related.
Caboose30 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:36 amHere's the -25 output.

Code: Select all

[caboose@LinuxFlagship ~]$ cat /var/log/gpu-manager.log
can't access /opt/amdgpu-pro/bin/amdgpu-pro-px
...
Is amdgpu loaded? yes
Is amdgpu blacklisted? no
Is amdgpu versioned? yes
Is amdgpu pro stack? no
...
Is amdgpu kernel module available? no
...
Error: can't access /sys/bus/pci/devices/0000:0e:00.0/driver
The device is not bound to any driver.
Error : Failed to open /dev/dri
Error : Failed to open /dev/dri
Error : Failed to open /dev/dri
Error : Failed to open /dev/dri
Does it require offloading? no
last cards number = 1
Has amd? yes
It appears your system is trying to access the driver you installed, but was not successful. That is a proprietary driver and I do not have enough experience with it to know what else to suggest. My advice would have been to use the driver in the kernel with the appropriate firmware. If you want to try that you could take a Timeshift snapshot of your current installation and experiment.
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by roblm »

Did you install Radeon Software for Linux version 21.10 for Ubuntu 20.04.2 or Radeon Software for Linux version 21.20 for Ubuntu 20.04.2.

Start your system using the 5.11.0-22 kernel and then use these commands and post the output:

Code: Select all

ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/amd/amdgpu/
ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/
ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/scheduler/
ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/amd/amdkcl/
glxinfo | grep "OpenGL vendor string" | cut -f2 -d":" | xargs
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by Caboose30 »

roblm wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:40 am Did you install Radeon Software for Linux version 21.10 for Ubuntu 20.04.2 or Radeon Software for Linux version 21.20 for Ubuntu 20.04.2.

Start your system using the 5.11.0-22 kernel and then use these commands and post the output:

Code: Select all

ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/amd/amdgpu/
ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/
ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/scheduler/
ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/amd/amdkcl/
glxinfo | grep "OpenGL vendor string" | cut -f2 -d":" | xargs

Code: Select all

[caboose@LinuxFlagship ~]$ ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/amd/amdgpu/
amdgpu.ko
[caboose@LinuxFlagship ~]$ ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/ttm/
amdttm.ko  ttm.ko
[caboose@LinuxFlagship ~]$ ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/scheduler/
amd-sched.ko  gpu-sched.ko
[caboose@LinuxFlagship ~]$ ls /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel/drivers/gpu/drm/amd/amdkcl/
amdkcl.ko
[caboose@LinuxFlagship ~]$ glxinfo | grep "OpenGL vendor string" | cut -f2 -d":" | xargs
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Caboose30
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by Caboose30 »

Okay, I think I got it. It was a combination of updating the firmware, adding the openDriver repositories, updating those, uninstalling the AMD drivers and rebuilding the initial RAMdisk.
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by roblm »

Caboose30 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:02 pm Okay, I think I got it. It was a combination of updating the firmware, adding the openDriver repositories, updating those, uninstalling the AMD drivers and rebuilding the initial RAMdisk.
On a new installation using Mint 20.2, you should only have needed to update the kernel and firmware.

In regard to your previous AMDGPU-Pro installation, you didn’t mention what version of Radeon Software for Linux was installed but I assume it was 21.20. The info you posted shows the AMDGPU-Pro driver installation was successful. All 4 AMD kernel modules were installed.

Don’t install the AMDGPU-Pro driver for better overall performance, because it is outperformed by the open-source amdgpu driver. If you frequently need to utilize the processing power of the video card to assist the CPU in high computation tasks, then the OpenCL component of the AMDGPU-Pro driver is needed to accelerate computations.
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Re: Issues with 6900 XT

Post by SMG »

Moderator note: mattlach's question can now be found here. New questions from someone other than the OP of the thread should be placed in a new topic.
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