5K support in Linux mint

[-Max-]

When installing Windows on an Imac through Bootcamp. The installation is "suplemented" with a custom driverpackage including all drivers for Windows. It is possible to download the driver package by it self. The driverpackage includes a custom AMD GPU driver. If you install the official AMD driver package, it will not work. You have to use the Bootcamp driver. The website https://www.bootcampdrivers.com/ provides a modified and possibly better working driver for the Imac 5K, but still it is modified. For that reason, and because Apple Bootcamp does not suppert Linux, I would expect the chances of help from Apple on this point to be very low.

Also the following links:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/8 ... adeon_pro/
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/635
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1184204

(Last one looks interesting but still abandoned)
Strongly suggests there is no solution.

One thing puzzels me though. If 5K is passed from the GPU, to the display targeting two virtual displays covering each their half of the screen, How can the display handle 4K as a single display?? It seems like the 5K signal gets split up into two, but the 4K does not. Why is this. It seems obvious, that you can pass 5K through the TB3 port as one stream, why not to the internal screen??

[digipunk]

Well, I hear Windows on this machine is limited to 4K, too. Have you tested it?

[-Max-]

Well, I hear Windows on this machine is limited to 4K, too. Have you tested it?

When the late 2014 27" Imac came out the bootcamp driver was limited to 4K, that was changed, so 5K was possible from mid 2015.

I think that AMD actualy makes the drivers for Apple as well, but they have not implemented the 5K imac compatibility in their standard drivers. Only in the bootcamp drivers, that Apple distributes. Therefore I also think it highly ulikely, that Apple would be supporting linux with drivers for their Imacs. audio is also not working, and no driver is available.

[digipunk]

Surely someone experienced could port the modified drivers to Linux? Also, I think I’ve found a solution to the audio issue. Could you please test it? Here: https://github.com/davidjo/snd_hda_macb ... -943435218

[SMG]

One thing puzzels me though. If 5K is passed from the GPU, to the display targeting two virtual displays covering each their half of the screen, How can the display handle 4K as a single display?? It seems like the 5K signal gets split up into two, but the 4K does not. Why is this. It seems obvious, that you can pass 5K through the TB3 port as one stream, why not to the internal screen??

Is 5K being passed from the GPU? Or is there a certain amount of pixels being passed through the cables and then being arranged in a manner at the screen to appear as if it is 5K? (That is what absque fenestris's post seems to indicate is possibly happening.)

It may be that individually the cables are capable of 4K which is what shows up in xrandr. It may be the combining of the two 4K options to create a 5K is what the special driver does. That is really starting to get beyond my current knowledge so my comments are more hypothetical guesses than statements of fact. I do not have enough of an understanding of the specifics of the hardware and the math involved in creating the image to know for sure what is happening.

I think that AMD actualy makes the drivers for Apple as well, but they have not implemented the 5K imac compatibility in their standard drivers. Only in the bootcamp drivers, that Apple distributes.

That seems to be what is indicated in the first link (the Reddit one) you posted. There is also mention in that link about the hardware being used (which DP specs were used) and how well it conformed to specs being a factor in how easy it might be to modify the drivers to work on Linux-based distros at 5K.

[digipunk]

I guess the question is: why would Apple go to such lengths and build this whole output system and custom drivers? That would have been a waste of time and resources unless there was indeed a hardware limitation or something which otherwise prevented them from passing the signal the easy way, such as the confines of the machine’s slim chassis.

[SMG]

I guess the question is: why would Apple go to such lengths and build this whole output system and custom drivers?

I would presume because that sets them apart from the competition and forces you to use only Apple hardware and software if you want those capabilities.

That would have been a waste of time and resources unless there was indeed a hardware limitation or something which otherwise prevented them from passing the signal the easy way, such as the confines of the machine’s slim chassis.

Apple exists to make money for its shareholders. I presume they create features they think sets them apart from others and uses the hardware available at the time the planning is done for the new models. There is usually a lag between when technology becomes available and when it becomes mainstream enough to be used in mass production. So they might have back-fitted a software solution into a model because the hardware solution was not yet available. (That is a guess on my part.)

[-Max-]

I guess the question is: why would Apple go to such lengths and build this whole output system and custom drivers?

I would presume because that sets them apart from the competition and forces you to use only Apple hardware and software if you want those capabilities.

That would have been a waste of time and resources unless there was indeed a hardware limitation or something which otherwise prevented them from passing the signal the easy way, such as the confines of the machine’s slim chassis.

Apple exists to make money for its shareholders. I presume they create features they think sets them apart from others and uses the hardware available at the time the planning is done for the new models. There is usually a lag between when technology becomes available and when it becomes mainstream enough to be used in mass production. So they might have back-fitted a software solution into a model because the hardware solution was not yet available. (That is a guess on my part.)

@SMG, I think you 100% on point with the first quote.

[digipunk]

I guess the question is: why would Apple go to such lengths and build this whole output system and custom drivers?

I would presume because that sets them apart from the competition and forces you to use only Apple hardware and software if you want those capabilities.

That would have been a waste of time and resources unless there was indeed a hardware limitation or something which otherwise prevented them from passing the signal the easy way, such as the confines of the machine’s slim chassis.

Apple exists to make money for its shareholders. I presume they create features they think sets them apart from others and uses the hardware available at the time the planning is done for the new models. There is usually a lag between when technology becomes available and when it becomes mainstream enough to be used in mass production. So they might have back-fitted a software solution into a model because the hardware solution was not yet available. (That is a guess on my part.)

Can’t really imagine them trying that hard to prevent the buyers from installing an open-source OS on a machine one would barely purchase for that sole reason. Windows would make sense as their frenemy’s main product, but Linux?

[SMG]

Can’t really imagine them trying that hard to prevent the buyers from installing an open-source OS on a machine anyone would barely purchase for that sole reason. Windows would make sense, but Linux?

Really, you can't? How many other operating systems can be installed on an iPhone?

By the way, you are not prevented from installing Linux Mint. -Max- has already successfully installed Linux Mint.

[-Max-]

Can’t really imagine them trying that hard to prevent the buyers from installing an open-source OS on a machine one would barely purchase for that sole reason. Windows would make sense as their enemy’s main product, but Linux?

I think Linux might actually be more appealing to a Mac user than Windows. If you're installing windows on a Mac with bootcamp, MacOS remains your daily driver, and you can use windows for gaming running the MS-office package with VBA supprt, etc, but you're not getting rid of MacOS.

on my 2014 Imac I installed windows10 as a clean install, which is not the easiest task, and this i definitely something Apple does not want you to do.

If you do the same with linux, Apple will not be pleased either.

I think very few people wants only windows on their Imac, only people who comes from a windows platform, like me, and needs windows only. If someone wants to have Linux on their Imac, I think there will be a strong preference towards a clean install, and this is a no no for Apple. I think this is the explanation why Apple does not support Linux on their machines, even though the number of people wanting to do this might be minuscule.

My personal motivation for installing Linux is that I'm expecting the new Windows 1984 version to be released soon along with MacOS 1984, and I really like my privacy and feel terribly uncomfortable trusting my documents and especially communication to the type of software Windows and MacOS has become.

[digipunk]

Can’t really imagine them trying that hard to prevent the buyers from installing an open-source OS on a machine anyone would barely purchase for that sole reason. Windows would make sense, but Linux?

Really, you can't? How many other operating systems can be installed on an iPhone?

By the way, you are not prevented from installing Linux Mint. -Max- has already successfully installed Linux Mint.

Nope, still cannot. The iPhone was never designed to run any operating system other than i(Phone)OS. For all the efforts towards unification, it is far too early to equate the Mac with an iOS device.

I’ve installed Mint, too, yet the monitor issue is one of (relative) importance.

[SMG]

Nope, still cannot. The iPhone was never designed to run any operating system other than i(Phone)OS. For all the efforts towards unification, it is far too early to equate the Mac with an iOS device.

The point was they are both Apple hardware and Apple only wants you to be in their hardware/software ecosystem.

I’ve installed Mint, too, yet the monitor issue is one of (relative) importance.

It is of importance to you. I expect the answer you get back from Apple support will indicate it is of zero importance to Apple.

[digipunk]

Nope, still cannot. The iPhone was never designed to run any operating system other than i(Phone)OS. For all the efforts towards unification, it is far too early to equate the Mac with an iOS device.

The point was they are both Apple hardware and Apple only wants you to be in their hardware/software ecosystem.

I’ve installed Mint, too, yet the monitor issue is one of (relative) importance.

It is of importance to you. I expect the answer you get back from Apple support will indicate it is of zero importance to Apple.

Anyway, my point's, in fact, simple - I don't see why they would do something to degrade this particular experience on purpose, especially if it was of no importance, and given that they even released updated drivers for Windows eventually. The Reddit thread kind of suggests that, too. Now, with Linux's market share...

[digipunk]

Can’t really imagine them trying that hard to prevent the buyers from installing an open-source OS on a machine one would barely purchase for that sole reason. Windows would make sense as their enemy’s main product, but Linux?

I think Linux might actually be more appealing to a Mac user than Windows. If you're installing windows on a Mac with bootcamp, MacOS remains your daily driver, and you can use windows for gaming running the MS-office package with VBA supprt, etc, but you're not getting rid of MacOS.

on my 2014 Imac I installed windows10 as a clean install, which is not the easiest task, and this i definitely something Apple does not want you to do.

If you do the same with linux, Apple will not be pleased either.

I think very few people wants only windows on their Imac, only people who comes from a windows platform, like me, and needs windows only. If someone wants to have Linux on their Imac, I think there will be a strong preference towards a clean install, and this is a no no for Apple. I think this is the explanation why Apple does not support Linux on their machines, even though the number of people wanting to do this might be minuscule.

My personal motivation for installing Linux is that I'm expecting the new Windows 1984 version to be released soon along with MacOS 1984, and I really like my privacy and feel terribly uncomfortable trusting my documents and especially communication to the type of software Windows and MacOS has become.

Oops, overlooked your reply at first. Well, the daily driver scenario you’re describing makes the most sense to me. Why would I even want to trade macOS for Windows on a computer I bought to run the former in the first place? As for part 2, man, you’re kind of paranoid, I’m afraid. I used to be paranoid, too, but then I just looked at almost everybody else who had simply enjoyed their tech for the past few decades (!) - and the fact that nothing major had happened to them - and abandoned the idea for good. This whole ’1984’ thing and other ‘conspiracies’ are solely in our minds affected by hyperinformation environments. The obsessive notion that everybody’s out to get you, which kind of emanates from your post, can only degrade the quality of your own life, not ‘theirs’. Speaking from experience, mind you. Of course, I’ve no idea what you are, keeping secrets safe might well be your occupational hazard, but if it isn’t, I suggest you not kid yourself about your own importance. I did, and it was a rude awakening when I had realised at last that no one really cared.

P.S. If it’s about discussing the topics you deem ‘sensitive’ online, my probably unwelcome, yet educated advice would be to drop those altogether. I used to be what they now call an ‘SJW’, chipping in on everything and posting rants here and there, but I eventually realised how massive a waste of time and breath it had been. If you live online, you don’t really live.

[SMG]

Moderator note: Just a reminder this is a hardware support topic on 5K screen support on an iMac hardware. While market share of the hardware is relevant to the issue regarding whether or not drivers are available, discussion of personal choices as to why one would or would not use a particular operating system for security or other reasons is really starting to veer outside of the scope of this specific topic. Any further discussion along those lines would be more appropriate in its own topic in the Chat section of the forum (and can include a link referencing this topic, if desired).

Edited to correct grammar error.

[digipunk]

Point taken!

[digipunk]

I guess the question is: why would Apple go to such lengths and build this whole output system and custom drivers?

I would presume because that sets them apart from the competition and forces you to use only Apple hardware and software if you want those capabilities.

That would have been a waste of time and resources unless there was indeed a hardware limitation or something which otherwise prevented them from passing the signal the easy way, such as the confines of the machine’s slim chassis.

Apple exists to make money for its shareholders. I presume they create features they think sets them apart from others and uses the hardware available at the time the planning is done for the new models. There is usually a lag between when technology becomes available and when it becomes mainstream enough to be used in mass production. So they might have back-fitted a software solution into a model because the hardware solution was not yet available. (That is a guess on my part.)

@SMG, I think you 100% on point with the first quote.

Max, have you tried these AMD drivers?
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/relea ... -lin-16-40

[-Max-]

Max, have you tried these AMD drivers?
https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/relea ... -lin-16-40

I havn't, because it doesn't support the AMD Radeon Pro 580, which is the GPU in the Imac I'm working on. But I was optimistic for a few seconds

[-Max-]

Moderator note: Just a reminder this is a hardware support topic on 5K screen support on an iMac hardware. While market share of the hardware is relevant to the issue regarding whether or not drivers are available, discussion of personal choices as to why one would or would not use a particular operating system for security or other reasons is really starting to veer outside of the scope of this specific topic. Any further discussion along those lines would be more appropriate in its own topic in the Chat section of the forum (and can include a link referencing this topic, if desired).

Edited to correct grammar error.

Thankyou very much for the reminder, and you are quite right. Sorry about getting off topic