Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

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t-ray
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Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by t-ray »

I'm relatively new to Linux. I've been using it exclusively for a few months now, and have installed it on three different machines. Mint 14/Cinnamon, Mint 15/Cinnamon, and now Mint 15/KDE (RC). I originally decided to give KDE a shot because I wasn't happy with Cinnamon's handling of multiple monitors. I tried installing KDE on top of the Mint 15 with Cinnamon, but it was ugly as crap. I'm still a novice, so I don't know exactly what was going on, but it was straight out of the mid nineties. I'm guessing it was relating to the system's window manager? Anyway, it was ugly enough that I wiped the machine and went back to Cinnamon.

A couple of weeks later my company provided me a new laptop, so I gave KDE a second chance. And I'm glad I did. I find KDE easier to use and much more aesthetically pleasing. In the past, I didn't really "get" the whole desktop environment religious war (gnome vs kde) that I've viewed from the outside over the years. Now that I'm actually living with linux day-to-day, I get it. And I've chosen KDE. KDE is totally my style.

I appreciate all of the hard work that the Mint guys are investing into Cinnamon, but after looking at the roadmap, I don't see any of my concerns being addressed. KDE, in that sense, is much more mature. And considering my machines have 12gb, 12gb, and 16gb of RAM, I'm not too worried about the memory footprint.

Sorry for the rant, but I wanted to share.

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xenopeek
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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by xenopeek »

t-ray wrote:I appreciate all of the hard work that the Mint guys are investing into Cinnamon, but after looking at the roadmap, I don't see any of my concerns being addressed.
If you keep your concerns secret, they'll never make it into any roadmap :)

As per the roadmap, the Linux Mint developers will focus on improvement of Mint tools for Linux Mint 16; like Software Manager, Update Manager and Backup Tool. The Cinnamon developers have listed their improvements for Cinnamon 2.0 on the roadmap also, where Cinnamon 2.0 is target for shipping with Linux Mint 16. Cinnamon is special that way because this project originated at Linux Mint, though it supports many more distros (see: http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?page_id=61).
t-ray wrote:KDE, in that sense, is much more mature.
The KDE developers have their roadmap on the KDE website: http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules. Have a look there at the feature plan for 4.11 (which may be included with Linux Mint 16).

You probably understand by now that the Cinnamon developers don't work on the Linux Mint releases, just like the KDE developers don't. For both the Linux Mint KDE and the Linux Mint Cinnamon releases (and MATE and Xfce) it is the Linux Mint developers that put together the new release, and the Linux Mint testers that test it.

If you have suggestions for improvement for the Linux Mint KDE release those are very much welcome. You can post suggestions here on the forum (http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewforum.php?f=29), or as an idea on the Community site (http://community.linuxmint.com/), or you can try and catch Fred (the Linux Mint KDE developer) on the IRC on #linuxmint-dev (just open Quassel from your menu and type /join #linuxmint-dev in one of the Linux Mint IRC channels to add that IRC channel).
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Snapcase
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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by Snapcase »

+1 T-ray.

I never manged to have KDE working this good on Kubuntu or KXStudio as it's working right now on Olivia 15 KDE (besides it's still a non final build). I solved my initial issues and crashes and it's running pleasantly smooth. I occasionally tried Linux distros in the past but always stuck to Mac (for 20 some years) and for the last years also Windows for Pro audio. But I switched in january. Linux is the only route for daily use now. Tried a few distros all along these last months to finally find that LM 15 KDE is the best OS I've crossed ways for now. Totally happy with this decission.

About KDE and RAM usage. I don't find it heavy. My system has 4GB RAM only with a modest CPU and the whole OS with unnecesary services disabled takes less than 300 MB to load, IIRC. I don't have too many effects enabled. Four desktops, different widgets enabled, two monitors, different walpapers for each desktop and screemn, and so on... Never liked my computers to be a full effected kinda circus. But this doesn't hog the CPU either. It nevers gets too busy doing the usual tasks. Love it!

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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by irishwoody »

Same here,
tried KDE for fist time with Linux Mint 14, installed it over LM14 with mate.
Now on RC15 I didnt bother with Mate, went straight for KDE and my desktop looks great.

I did use a
1 FONTS .... tip at the follwoing URL
[url]http://www.binarytides.com/gorgeous-looking-fonts-ubuntu-linux/[/url]
To get fonts looking the way I wanted them, I'd reccomend this.

2. I also used a set of Icons from
....Cathbard's MintFresh KDE4 ICONs to get a set of "Green Mint" Icons for KDE

and finally
3. ZDust Window decoration theme for dark window borders.

Destop id the best looking I'v eever had.

While upgrading I also went for SSD drive for / and /home partitions upgraded to 16Gb... Now machine zips along..

Woody

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catweazel
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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by catweazel »

t-ray wrote:I gave KDE a second chance. And I'm glad I did.
+1
"There is, ultimately, only one truth -- cogito, ergo sum -- everything else is an assumption." - Me, my swansong.

t-ray
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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by t-ray »

xenopeek wrote: If you keep your concerns secret, they'll never make it into any roadmap :)
I did submit a feature request to the main Cinnamon project on GitHub, only to find out it was a duplicate to an existing item. So I then went in an +1'd that item. So I have at least provided some feedback. Unfortunately, that item has no explicit mention in the 2.0 roadmap. I understand that there are only so many resources available, and that my preference for priority is not inline with that of the Cinnamon team's. No big deal. That's what makes *free* [as in speech] software so great.
xenopeek wrote: As per the roadmap, the Linux Mint developers will focus on improvement of Mint tools for Linux Mint 16; like Software Manager, Update Manager and Backup Tool. The Cinnamon developers have listed their improvements for Cinnamon 2.0 on the roadmap also, where Cinnamon 2.0 is target for shipping with Linux Mint 16. Cinnamon is special that way because this project originated at Linux Mint, though it supports many more distros (see: http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?page_id=61).
Of course, you are correct. I was confusing the two when I wrote my original post.

Your responses are always so thorough and helpful. I'll take a look at some of the resources you mentioned.

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daveinuk
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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by daveinuk »

I'm the exact opposite as cinammon works better for me and desperately trying to get KDE off my LM14 install! its not good mixing them IMO so I've installed zorin os and lubuntu on another machine as there is an appeal for me with KDE I think I just need to get comfortable with it like I have with cinammon.

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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by mrshane »

Mixing Cinnamon and KDE is indeed not a good idea, I tried this and had problems with both Dm's network manager. Ended up using wicd instead to get internet on both. But then I checked Cinnamon out, concluded I liked KDE better and removed Cinnamon. I like KDE alot more but to each his own, I believe in choose and freedom so whatever works best for someone is great and I support that. I don't think anything is wrong with Cinnamon, I just like the looks and functions of KDE better.

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daveinuk
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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by daveinuk »

Absolutely and the choice in just mint alone is fantastic but I like to have a play around with other distros too so I'll see if I can funk my lubuntu install up a bit cos I've been quite impressed with that, just need to customise the look a bit yet as its a bit 98' ish lol : /

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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by Orbmiser »

Yep back in 2006-2008 was a Ubuntu Gnome user.
And hated KDE then. Hiatus from linux due to missing mature apps needed.
Left linux and just recently came back and found great inroads to apps that I needed.
And some great strides in linux in general.

Hated the Unity and did try more than once and a day to adjust.
Wasn't my cup of tea. Then found mint.
Cinnamon is a great next generation desktop and loved it much.

But for me some critical things like apps remembering size & position.
As work on Dual 22" displays across 3 virtual desktops. So needing apps to behave.
Still had the old FUD spouter attitude that "KDE is a Resource Hog,Is Bloated Is Fisher Price Candy!"

Nothing farther from the truth. It chimes in at 420mb and easily could get that down to 350 or so.
Much more snappy and responsive than Cinnamon was. As Cinnamon just a tad bit more delay clunking with windows.
This is both using the default open drivers.

True the Settings is Over the top in my opinion and daunting to first time user. Was a tad slow reading how to tweak this or adjust that or turn the thingy off,etc.... But at least it was easier than having to modify a root config file or doing a patch or modifying some cryptic desktop config file. Trying to customize Cinnamon to more fit my needs. Which is how Gnome is by design "Elegant and Minimalist" approach. Which isn't wrong just different.

And my preferred is having the options in the first place and turn them off or disable them.
And have trimmed down my KDE to more Gnome Minimalist Desktop. Don't need widgets on desktop but do have a couple running in the panel. One conky script running on desktop is it with 2 panels 1 in each monitor with separate functions and info.
One all app related to launching and using apps. Second panel more a systray system functions like volume,wifi,notifications,clock and weather.

[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/orb9220/9122983666/][img]http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5508/9122983666_9a611a45e7_n.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/orb9220/9122983666/]Desktop June 22nd Spanned 1 of 2[/url] by [url=http://www.flickr.com/people/orb9220/]Orbmiser[/url], on Flickr

So remember it's not simply which is the Best OS or Better Desktop environment.
It's about what is the Best OS or Better Desktop environment for You! :P

So let go of that "There Can Only Be One!" mantra and be happy with what works for you.
.

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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by mrshane »

For KDE, take the example of customizing it with a theme to look more like windows 7. Aero gass transparency, blur, and whatnot. Now anyone who says its a resource hogs is only half correct. Yes you get a fancey looking GUI with using more ram and other simplier DM's use less ram but don't have the fanceness, but when compared to windows 7 is far more lightwieght. If you manage to shut some things off on windows 7 you may run around 1gb on adverge. So KDE is a great choose for those coming from windows 7.

To those running 90'ish looking DM's, nothing is wrong with that style either. Its whatever your comf with. It really boils down to performance and bug fixes, I think theres some fine DM's out there, styles are nice. What really needs to be done is worry less on improving the style and more on improving performance/bug fixes

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Snapcase
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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by Snapcase »

I think Cinnamon is killer, functional and good looking. If you don't really need KDE's tweakability, I don't really need it that much, Cinnamon is great. Both Gnome and KDE typical apps are quite mature. I find Cinnamon very good besides I tend to prefer the KDE essential apps pack. Anyway, I would use Cinnamon without concerns.... excepting the file manager. It cannot live with Nemo and such kind of stuff. What always makes me go back to KDE is Dolphin alone. If Cinnamon had a file manger similarly good and powerful as Dolphin is, honestly, I wouldn't know which Mint flavor I would prefer.

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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by phill1978 »

Loved cinnamon but for me it was unbelievable and totally ruined with 15, not sure what went wrong but it was crashing all the time. If your a tweaker like me you could spend a few hours easily setting things how you want them and this is where cinnamon falls down. It can quickly look neat and amazing, better than any other.. but if you want to get things resized or change fonts, apps move stuff around it starts to go odd. Also i found it was acting funny with steam overaly and couldnt get big picture to work with it either. This may all be fixed now, but moving to KDE gave me the ability to mess around until my heart was content.

KDE is not windows 98 / XP or even windows 7 in looks, thats a total insult :|

On a fresh install the effects & animation, transparancies, rounded edges, shadowing, fonts and icons are miles ahead ! Within 30 mins you can take the already great look and theme the whole desktop to look fantastic.

my only caveat with KDE is Activities, i still dont really understand the need for them. If you could use them to get not only a different wallpaper but different fonts,colours so each activity had a completley different feel that would be awesome!

without KDE we would all be stuck with gnome or unity and that would put a lot of people off the only other choice would be the 90's looking XFCE (this can also be made to look nice but requires a tiny bit more work)

So, I say praise KDE it is the best DE on the planet right now.

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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by HoppityBob »

Cinnamon is decent but for me the fact it cannot remember window sizes and positions drives me cracked. I also find Dolphin to be the best file manager I've ever used so it's win win for Kde in this camp.

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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by Orbmiser »

HoppityBob wrote:Cinnamon is decent but for me the fact it cannot remember window sizes and positions drives me cracked. I also find Dolphin to be the best file manager I've ever used so it's win win for Kde in this camp.
Yep that issue be an ongoing battle for a decade in the Linux dev circle.

The App developer's insist that it is the Window Manager responsible for how things are displayed on their desktop.
The WM dev's insist the responsibility falls on the App shoulders.

Neither giving ground and never coming to a comprise.
Tho some App developer's have conceded and developed that ability in their app.
But few have and the majority just ignore what to me is basic function and feature.
Seems both camps it's more about being right and standing their ground then giving a much needed basic function to the user's.
Glad KDE dev's didn't care who's responsibility it was. And gave it to the user anyways.
.
Last edited by Orbmiser on Tue Jul 23, 2013 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mrshane
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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by mrshane »

phill1978 wrote:
KDE is not windows 98 / XP or even windows 7 in looks, thats a total insult :|

On a fresh install the effects & animation, transparancies, rounded edges, shadowing, fonts and icons are miles ahead ! Within 30 mins you can take the already great look and theme the whole desktop to look fantastic.
I was not trying to offend anyone, I was just making a genernal statement about how KDE and Windows 7 both have transparency options. Many people say KDE looks like windows xp and is ugly, that is an insult to me. If they would take the time to install themes then they could get glass transparency, what a shame. I run a theme called dark windows 7 and it looks similiar to 7 but better imo. I also have many other glass themes with no mention of win7.

KDE has had transparency long before win7 was even released. This is just one more example of something Microsoft stole from Linux.

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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by peer »

I started as a newbie with Opensuse. After a while (a year) it became very slow so I tried Ubuntu. This distro worked good for me. I tried several other distros but stayed with ubuntu. About a year and a half ago I tried cinnamon. It was not stable but I liked it. After while Cinnamon grew up and became mature. Mint 14 Cinnamon performed very well. There were a few minor problems but I was happy with it. A few weeks ago I tried to upgrade to mint 15 but that did not go well. Therefore I had to do a clean install. On my pc mint 15 cinnamon was acting strange. I think it has something to do with the videodrivers (i don't kwow what exactly).

I decided to give linux mint 14 kde a chance. This will be my distro for a long time. It is very stable and i can easily all the settings. So I started with KDE (opensuse) and now I am back on KDE (mint). It is definitely my favorite distro.

Peer

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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by The Dark Side »

In my modest conception, there are no doubts: KDE Desktop is the best desktop available today. I use Linux Mint KDE and Kubuntu and I am very satisfied and very pleased with both (although Linux Mint KDE works better than Kubuntu).

Remains to be seen how Cinnamon 2.0 without Gnome. I think you give a chance, but so far, my favorite is by ample advantage KDE Desktop.... Greetings.-
MX Linux 18.3 (KDE & XFCE)
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Lin Jones
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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by Lin Jones »

When I started using Linux way back in 2007 I was a huge KDE fan. When 4.0 hit I tried Gnome seriously for the first time and have stuck to it every since. Now, I really don't care for the KDE desktop but I still can't live without some KDE apps. The first thing I do on any new install is to install K3B, KDE Games, Krusader, and Clementine.

I still wish I could get into the KDE desktop. Sigh.
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axel668
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Re: Totally prefer KDE to Cinnamon

Post by axel668 »

I like XFCE best, I think that's why there are several different Mint editions :)
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