Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

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frisil
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Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby frisil » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:34 pm

Hi,
does anyone know a KDE4 repo with the latest version I can use to install it in Mint18? Plasma5 simply lacks a lot of functionality I am used to, so I would like to use the last kde4 version instead. Is this possible?

Thanks for any help in advance.

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phd21
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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby phd21 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:40 pm

HI "frisil",

It would help to know more about your system setup. If you run "inxi -Fxzd" from the console terminal prompt, highlight the results, copy and paste them back here, that should provide enough information.

As far as I know that is not possible, nor is it a good idea to do. If you must use Plasma 4, then install Linux Mint 17.3 KDE. If you are using Linux Mint KDE 18, upgrade immediately to version 18.1 through the Mint Update Manager.

As a long time user of KDE, which I do love, may I ask what functions are you missing? I currently have both KDE 17.3 and 18.1 installed.

Hope this helps ...
Phd21: Mint KDE 17.3 & 18.2, 64-bit Awesome OS, Ancient Dell OptiPlex 780 Core2Duo E8400 3GHz,3gb Ram,160gb hdd, Video: Intel 4 Graphics, DVD Lightscribe. Why I use KDE?:https://opensource.com/life/15/4/9-reasons-to-use-kde

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richyrich
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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby richyrich » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:46 pm

I think you would have to backup and install Mint's 17.3 KDE edition for that.
(Supported until 2019)

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frisil
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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby frisil » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:54 pm

As a long time user of KDE, which I do love, may I ask what functions are you missing? I currently have both KDE 17.3 and 18.1 installed.
To use multiple different desktops for different things to do. I know I can do that with activities, but I haven't found an overview where I can move windows around. My KDE4 zooms out when I move the mouse to top left and I get an overview of all my different desktops with different widgets and wallpapers and I can simply move a window from one desktop to another. Now in Plasma5 this is gone. I know I can use activities, but there is no overview and easy way to move a window from one activity to another. Oh, and I often user the overview to a quick check like what a downloader or video encoder is doing while working on something else. Cannot do this with plasma 5, can I? Plus, there is no terminal widget nor a smooth scrolling network monitor. Or is there?

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby kdemeoz » Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:09 pm

frisil wrote:To use multiple ... desktops for different things to do. ... I haven't found an overview where I can move windows around. My KDE4 zooms out when I move the mouse to top left and I get an overview of all my different desktops ... I can simply move a window from one desktop to another. Now in Plasma5 this is gone. ... Or is there?


"with different widgets and wallpapers" --> In Plasma5 we cannot [sadly] have individual wallpapers & widgets per desktop like we used to in KDE4. This was [is?] quite a controversial decision by the KDE Devs, & has been extensively debated/discussed/protested for quite a long time, eg, https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343246

However, wrt your misapprehension that Plasma5 also lost the Desktop Grid & Screen Edges KWin Desktop Effects [which is what you were essentially describing in your text quote above], i'm sorry to have to contradict you but you're incorrect. Plasma5 continues to have these, they continue to work well, & they continue [for me] to be highly valued intensively used productivity tools. I'm puzzled why you somehow thought them gone, given they are activated & edited the same way as KDE4, in System Settings, which you presumably know how to use as you apparently activated these in your KDE4 Mint.

Pics fyi [Mint 18.1 KDE]:
20170610_001.png

20170610_002.png
openSUSE Tumbleweed Plasma 5.11.3, & Manjaro KDE 5.11.4 [Mint 17.x KDE4 2014-2016]

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby lmuserx4849 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:25 am

frisil wrote:Hi,
does anyone know a KDE4 repo with the latest version I can use to install it in Mint18? Plasma5 simply lacks a lot of functionality I am used to, so I would like to use the last kde4 version instead. Is this possible?

Thanks for any help in advance.


I'd either install 17.3 (no small feat) to postpone the growing pains of kde5, or I'd learn about kde5 and how to do things and avoid what's not working as they continue to make progress (embrace it), or I'd try a different desktop. Some people have stayed with KDE 3. The LM 17.3 LT support was VERY important to me. I'm not sure what I'll do in April 2019 :-) I have friends using Mate. For a light system, they use lxde (lxde has a qt development issue of their own). I have kde5 on a virtual machine and I've tried to implement my work environment and I can't put it in production yet. It'll get there. kde3 to 4 was huge, 4 to 5 is HUGER with qt5 and wayland.

Most new versions (17, 18) move foward.

Unfortunately a lot of KDE's userbase and techbase doc is still version 4. I really thought their small animated gifs were a nice way to show users how to do stuff. The links below have been helpful. It helps to be immersed in the KDE world a little because it is changing, and frequently. I don't know how else to do it. These are some link:

https://docs.kde.org/stable/en/kde-workspace/kcontrol/khotkeys/index.html
https://www.kde.org/announcements/
http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/
https://forum.kde.org/

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby phd21 » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:20 am

HI "frisil",

frisil wrote: To use multiple different desktops for different things to do. I know I can do that with activities, but I haven't found an overview where I can move windows around. My KDE4 zooms out when I move the mouse to top left and I get an overview of all my different desktops with different widgets and wallpapers and I can simply move a window from one desktop to another. Now in Plasma5 this is gone. I know I can use activities, but there is no overview and easy way to move a window from one activity to another. Oh, and I often user the overview to a quick check like what a downloader or video encoder is doing while working on something else. Cannot do this with plasma 5, can I? Plus, there is no terminal widget nor a smooth scrolling network monitor. Or is there?


I have been following your post and the good replies to it. Here are more of my thoughts on this as well.

I have not yet had a chance to boot into my Linux Mint 18.1 KDE to test various things you mentioned, but I will. I have not used the drag and drop method from hotspots for moving application's that you mentioned, interesting. I will try it though... If you are familiar with Simple Screen Recorder (ssr), a superb desktop recorder, it would be nice to see exactly what you are talking about...

As you can see from the latest replies, you still have the Screen hotspots (hotkeys).

In either version, you have always been able to right click an application's window, or its taskbar entry, and to send (move) that application to whatever virtual desktop (workspace), or Activity, and or monitor screen. In LM18.x Plasma 5, you can create virtual desktops (workspsaces), and tell Activities to link to the desktop you created the activity from, but I am not sure this works properly yet. And in either version, you have been able to make an application when it starts to show up in a specific (or all) virtual desktop (workspace), Activity, or monitor screen using the right click titlebar, more actions, special application or window settings...

What do you mean by no terminal widget? There is Yakuake a pop-up terminal that I love and use.

What do you mean by "a smooth scrolling network monitor"? The one thing I really do miss from Linux Mint 17.x and Plasma 4 is the "Knemo" network monitor which some have been able to install in Linux Mint 18.x Plasma 5.x.x, but I have yet to figure out how.


Hope this helps ...
Phd21: Mint KDE 17.3 & 18.2, 64-bit Awesome OS, Ancient Dell OptiPlex 780 Core2Duo E8400 3GHz,3gb Ram,160gb hdd, Video: Intel 4 Graphics, DVD Lightscribe. Why I use KDE?:https://opensource.com/life/15/4/9-reasons-to-use-kde

joseph the carpenter
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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby joseph the carpenter » Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:30 pm

After spending three weeks setting up Mint 18, Sonya and getting everything just as I liked it, apart from different widgets on each desktop, I have reverted to 17.3 Rosa to get the functionality I want.
Different widgets on each desktop is essential to the way I now work and this is only available through Kde4.

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby lmuserx4849 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:29 pm

joseph the carpenter wrote:After spending three weeks setting up Mint 18, Sonya and getting everything just as I liked it, apart from different widgets on each desktop, I have reverted to 17.3 Rosa to get the functionality I want.
Different widgets on each desktop is essential to the way I now work and this is only available through Kde4.


I'm just not that into "KDE 5" for this reason and many more. Although I keep trying :-)

I thought this was an interesting article on the evolution of KDE. We can't really compare kde4 with kde5 because they are fundamentally different.
https://blogs.gentoo.org/kensington/201 ... on-gentoo/
Paraphrase: KDE’s release structure has evolved... This means there’s no such thing as KDE 5! There is KDE Frameworks 5, KDE Plasma 5, KDE Applications 5... Each with their own release cycles

KDE3 got forked and is called Trinity. Eventually we'll have to move on from KDE 4.

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby frisil » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:11 am

kdemeoz wrote:i'm sorry to have to contradict you but you're incorrect. Plasma5 continues to have these, they continue to work well, & they continue [for me] to be highly valued intensively used productivity tools. I'm puzzled why you somehow thought them gone, given they are activated & edited the same way as KDE4, in System Settings, which you presumably know how to use as you apparently activated these in your KDE4 Mint.


I know it's still there but it became useless.
As desktops don't work like they used to be (different stuff) I have to use activities now to get the same functionallity I had with virtual desktops. I don't use virtual desktops anymore because they became pointless for me. So I also lost the Desktop Grid & Screen Edges functionallity, even if it's still there (for desktops). I'd need an Activity Grid triggered by screen edge instead. And a function like this is nowhere to be found.

But with KDE locking out root access to dolphin in the newer versions, this discussion is obsolete anyway because KDE as a whole is becoming unusable. Linux has always been about choice. Take the choice to use a root file browser from me and you can go to hell. I hope Cinnamon will have something like activities (or another way of using different workspaces) in the future and it's byebye KDE forever anyway.

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby k-314 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:28 am

This KDE 5 features "activities" and "no different wallpapers" made me switch to Xfce. Was not easy, as in the beginning Xfce desktop shows up a bit "simple" to say.

br
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8GB DDR2-800, SSD 60GB, HDD 2TB, 250GB. Linux Mint 18.2 - Xfce

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby kdemeoz » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:26 am

Several people in this thread, & in other similar ones, keep making the error of judging KDE Plasma5 itself, by the way that Mint KDE / Kubuntu has chosen to implement Plasma5. I abandoned Mint KDE last year for Maui to get a much better P5 experience, & recently [only a few months ago] i in turn migrated from Maui to oS TW. KDE... & consequently am now having the best KDE/P5 experience i've ever had [Maui was better than Mint; TW is better than Maui (for me)]. You really should try broadening your horizons if you feel unhappy with KDE in Mint. I know that many users appear to still enjoy Mint KDE, & that's fine of course, but for any users who like me grew dissatisfied with it, you're making a mistake [& thus shooting yourself in the foot] if you think that you have no other KDE choices. I mean no disrespect at all, in any way, to the Mint team, who do a great job & forever have a place in my heart for releasing me in 2013/14 from MS imprisonment. I simply opine that users possibly should decide what DE they need/want, as first priority, then find a distro that best delivers that for them... not merely align yourself with a single distro & sacrifice your preferred DE for a lesser one. That's putting cart before horse.
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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby phd21 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:19 am

Hi "frisil",


- You can still set "Screen Edges" to run the "Activities" manager.

- You can access the root file manager by right clicking a folder and "Open as root" which is definitely not as convenient as the "root menu" we used to have in Plasma 4; I have no idea why they would take that away? But, you can download the root menu options for Dolphin file manager and install them, to get them back in Linux Mint 18.x Plasma 5. I did, and it works the same as before...

Root Actions Servicemenu
* Must first install "ruby" from Software Manager or Synaptic Package Manager (SPM) before installing this,, read the description.
https://store.kde.org/content/show.php/Root+Actions+Servicemenu?content=48411


Build Your Own Linux Productivity Machine With KDE Service Menus
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/build-linux-productivity-machine-kde-service-menus/

KDE-Store
https://store.kde.org/browse/cat/102/


How To: Add “Open As Root” Entry Manually To KDE’s Dolphin File Manager?
https://iwf1.com/how-to-add-open-as-root-entry-manually-to-kdes-dolphin-file-manager/


Hope this helps ...
Phd21: Mint KDE 17.3 & 18.2, 64-bit Awesome OS, Ancient Dell OptiPlex 780 Core2Duo E8400 3GHz,3gb Ram,160gb hdd, Video: Intel 4 Graphics, DVD Lightscribe. Why I use KDE?:https://opensource.com/life/15/4/9-reasons-to-use-kde

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby frisil » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:38 pm

phd21 wrote:- You can still set "Screen Edges" to run the "Activities" manager.
But I get no overview. I want to move the pointer to a screen edge to take it look at what's happening on my 9 desktops. Has a download finished? What's rsync doing in the teminal? Did gsmartcontrol find any errors on the external drive? Etc. With activity manager, I have to go to each activity and take a look. Unfappable! With good ol' KDE4 I just move my pointer to the upper left I get all the info at one glance, then move back the pointer and continue working. If I have to switch through all my activities just to see how stuff's progressing, it simply breaks my workflow.

phd21 wrote:- You can access the root file manager by right clicking a folder and "Open as root" which is definitely not as convenient as the "root menu" we used to have in Plasma 4; I have no idea why they would take that away? But, you can download the root menu options for Dolphin file manager and install them, to get them back in Linux Mint 18.x Plasma 5. I did, and it works the same as before...

No, it doesn't. I'm not talking about Mint, but newer versions on other distros or KDE repos. When run, dolphin checks if it is run as root and exits with an error message if the user is root. No way to get it running as root. It's a hardcoded mechanism to lock out root to make sure people won't do anything stupid or have their malware take over. Yeah, kde, patronize me! Only way around: Install an older version (and run into dependency hell later) or download the source code, find the mechanism, comment it out and compile your own dolphin with root capabilites. Repeat for every update. BTW, kwrite does the same. And I guess more KDE software will follow this example. Developers who want to tell me how to use my computer can go to hell and tell Satan.

RIP kde, it was great as long as it lasted, but all good things…

Is there any other desktop where you can have different wallpapers and widgets for each desktop?

Is there any other file manager I can set to always ask for drag-and-drops if I want to copy, move or link?

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby kdemeoz » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:23 pm

frisil - you are simply wrong. I have already explained to you that the functions like Screen Edges, Hot Corners, Desktop Grid ARE still present, & DO still work. I used them all day every day in Maui, & i use them all day every day now in oS TW. Whenever i fire up my Mint 18.x KDE VM to test claims that people like you persist in making about KDE, i find that these functions still also work fine in Mint.

Yes it IS true that Plasma 5 took away our capability to have individual widgets & wallpapers per VD, & i do miss that, but i persisted anyway with P5 once i decided that it was not a deal-breaker for me. Some people seem unable to get beyond that, & so they change to another DE. For those that wish to persist, P5 remains an excellent DE... especially in the later versions of Plasma that unfortunately Mint KDE elected not to use.

You're also wrong about Root Actions in Dolphin, albeit you are "less wrong" about it than you are about those other functions in my first paragraph. In Mint 18.x KDE & even now Maui, several of those functions in the context menu no longer work... it was an upstream Plasma design decision [i think, though maybe i'm wrong]. Happily for me though, in oS TW all the Root Actions continue to work brilliantly. Oh, & btw, oS TW KDE offers, right in the Applications Menu, the choice of running Dolphin as a normal user, or as superuser.

Regarding Activities, though this is not my preferred use-mode, a few months ago i spent a couple of hours experimenting successfully with a poor-person's quasi Desktop Grid metaphor. It's not as good as the real DG, but it is surprisingly useful all the same, for those users who still desperately want to have individual wallpapers & widgets. I did all this testing when logged in as my second user, whereas with my main user account i continue to happily use my 9 VDs [with ALL their cool functions] & 2 Activities. Conversely in my other account, i have 9 Activities with 1 VD per Activity, & the desired individual wallpapers. i created a 2nd Plasma panel on the RH vertical edge, set to auto-hide. Its sole contents is the Activity Switcher widget. I made this panel very wide, to maximise the size of each Activity's preview, but not so wide that not all 9 previews didn't still fit. Though each preview can't show an actual live thumbnail of its active windows, it does still show each window, in an identifiable way, & i can simply drag & drop target windows from Activity to Activity [a'la DG]. Each Activity's desktop is set so i can scroll through my activities with the mouse wheel. I repeat -- this is clearly inferior to the classic multi-VD DG paradigm in several important ways, but it is nevertheless far more useful & usable than i'd previously supposed Activities to be [& you get your individual widgets & wallpapers].

You seem intent on making & repeating falsehoods about KDE P5. If you don't wish to find out for yourself, that's your decision & your personal loss... but it would be undesirable if other people read your words & believed them, thus potentially depriving themselves of the really fine KDE P5 [especially latest versions] DE.
openSUSE Tumbleweed Plasma 5.11.3, & Manjaro KDE 5.11.4 [Mint 17.x KDE4 2014-2016]

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby frisil » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:06 am

I am not wrong nor spreading falsehood about KDE. I never said screen edges and desktop grid don't work, I said they no longer work for what I want them for and what they used to do on Plasma4.

About locking out root access, read what that the developer has to say:
https://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/ ... s-as-root/

Do a google search for "Executing Dolphin as root is not possible" and you will get a lot of discussions about the hardcoded lock and how to patch it.

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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby kdemeoz » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:13 am

There's really no point you repeatedly telling me that functions & features i use successfully every day, don't work. Anyway, that's all for me now in this thread; head-beating against walls eventually stops being fun.
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Re: Kde4 repo for LinuxMint 18?

Postby frisil » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:10 pm

Show me a video of Plasma5 with a grid displaying all activities (different workspaces) at once and I believe you. And I'd be happy to use it.

Until then, i think you didn't read my post completely or didn't understand what I was talking about at all.


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