Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Forum rules
Before you post please read how to get help
Post Reply
User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:29 pm

I would like to establish a single "Home Thread" for Mint users - who also run/prefer the KDE desktop - to discuss thoughts, experiences, possibilities, and any other issues in preparation for the time when the Mint team formally drops the KDE distro.

At the current time (2/2018)) there seem to be three approaches:
1) stay with Mint but switch to a different DE
2) attempt a RYO Mint-KDE environment
3) switch to a Linux version that offers a KDE (embedded) distro

I don't think any of the current Mint-KDE users want to give Mint up. Some (like myself) do not have the Linux skills to risk the success and stability of a "Roll Your Own" environment. Most of my Linux experience has been with KDE... I like it; I'm comfortable with it (for the most part); I appreciate its power and all of its built-in features. Many of the "tweaks" I've learned - which are now very important to me - only apply to KDE. In short, KDE isn't perfect, but it's my choice DE. I don't in any way condemn the Mint team for its decision to drop the KDE distro (I assume it was a business decision), but I hope they will give us the latitude to discuss what we, as loyal Mint users, need to do in the future when Mint and KDE are no longer being co- (cooperatively) developed. There will probably be no consensus solution, but perhaps this thread can generate enough quality information that each person can make a better decision for his/her future.
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

User avatar
sdibaja
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Baja California, Mexico

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by sdibaja » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:08 pm

when the hubbub started I decided to check out what the appeal is for KDE.
(and I am a hard core Mate desktop fan.)
I do understand why you folk like it.

anyway, I made a bunch of installs and ran them around the block.

Three stood out:

SolydXK. https://solydxk.com/
a few years ago Mint dropped both KDE and Xfce from LMDE (Debian base without Ubuntu).
some very talented folks started SolydXK. They are active and responsive, and friendly too.

Debian debian-live-9.3.0-amd64-kde+nonfree.iso.torrent
not super easy to install, but very complete out of the box

Neon https://neon.kde.org/

My Personal Criteria is based on Debian Stretch (aka stable)...
I don't know much about KDE, so I can't say one is "better" than the other...
best of luck!

User avatar
banjo
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:31 pm
Location: Reading, Massachusetts

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by banjo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:09 am

when the hubbub started I decided to check out what the appeal is for KDE.
(and I am a hard core Mate desktop fan.)
I do understand why you folk like it.
Sometimes the situation is a bit more complicated than just liking it. I have other users on the system who are now very comfortable with KDE and are not interested in learning something else. So it is worth the effort to keep some consistency in the tools. KDE is not a bad DE, so there is little real value in moving to something else in my case.

I am looking at going back to Mageia when I have to, but that decision has not been made yet. I continue to have problems with the Mageia distro.

Banjo
(_)=='=~
If only the best bird sang, the forest would be a very quiet place.

User avatar
catweazel
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7754
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by catweazel » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:11 am

tovian wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:29 pm
At the current time (2/2018)) there seem to be three approaches:
1) stay with Mint but switch to a different DE
2) attempt a RYO Mint-KDE environment
3) switch to a Linux version that offers a KDE (embedded) distro
I tried 1) MATE and Cinnamon. Cinnamon was awful. MATE was stable but lacked some features I like.
I've done 3) Neon, Manjaro and kubuntu all work well for me. I'll probably stick with kubuntu until...
I'll do 2) just to see how it goes as an experiment. If it works, fine, I might stay with it.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

User avatar
Jim Hauser
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 506
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:08 pm
Location: Pascagoula, Mississippi

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Jim Hauser » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:38 am

I have tried quite a few KDE distros on a multi-boot. At this point Kubuntu seems to work very well on this system and in many ways it reminds me of Mint KDE. I have it on a separate drive and load it up occasionally to see what, if any, software is available that I am currently using in Mint KDE So far it is looking pretty good. I also have XFCE ready and waiting on another drive for the long anticipated tutorial (KDE over XFCE.) At this point these look like my best two possible options.

My third option is to somehow brainwash Clem and the rest of the Mint teams into not dropping KDE as a stand-alone Mint distro. :) I say it again: The next round is on me...

braingateway
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 105
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:21 pm

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by braingateway » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:35 am

KDE5 is not usable anyway. The KDE dev team also very stubborn. So I think this decision is unfortunate but wise. Now I just move to the Cinnamon DE. Though it looks primitive, but at least mostly usable. I also checked out ubuntu unity. It is quite nice but requires too much resource.

User avatar
catweazel
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7754
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: Australian Antarctic Territory

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by catweazel » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:43 am

braingateway wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:35 am
KDE5 is not usable anyway.
Nonesense.
I also checked out ubuntu unity. It is quite nice but
Cannonical dropped Unity. It's dead.
¡uʍop ǝpısdn sı buıɥʇʎɹǝʌǝ os ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐ ɯoɹɟ ɯ,ı

User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:26 am

These are all VERY GOOD responses - and very useful information... THANK YOU.
And, Thank You for your interest and contributions to this topic as we work our way through this minefield.
sdibaja wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:08 pm
...SolydXK
...Neon
Now I have two more to check out.

banjo wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:09 am
I am looking at going back to Mageia...
I read about this in another thread. You also mentioned that you tried and rejected kubuntu. Since I'm finding kubuntu to be an excellent candidate I'm wondering what negatives you uncovered.

Jim Hauser wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:38 am
My third option is to somehow brainwash Clem and the rest of the Mint teams into not dropping KDE as a stand-alone Mint distro.
This would be our best alternative... MAYBE. I fear that if this decision has been made already then, even if it is overturned, that would only be temporary... more of a postponement of the inevitable. If the Mint team is using a lot of resources on KDE but they don't have the numbers of users to support that allocation of resources, then this, sadly, is a done deal. Plus, none of us would be exactly delighted to find that we have done very much work to prepare to prepare for "Life without Mint/KDE" just to be told, "nevermind, we've changed our plan". I suspect they debated that all the way to resolution long before they made the decision and the public announcement that the KDE distro would be dropped.
I guess we all know that money changes minds. If you were prepared to drop a significant donation on the Mint team (and "repeat as necessary") you might have a chance at altering future decisions.

braingateway wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:35 am
KDE5 is not usable anyway. The KDE dev team also very stubborn.
I do not like Plasma-5 anywhere near as much as Plasma-4 (KDE-4). I continue running Mint-17.3/KDE (with KDE-4) on my main machine, but that is going backwards and cannot be sustained forever. As some others have said... KDE-4 was a disaster in its early days but developed into the "best DE" ever - so I'm hopeful that KDE-5 (Plasma-5) will go the same way. Even if it doesn't, living in the past won't keep me up with the latest technology which changes so rapidly it's already hard enough to keep up with. I don't like the "attitude" I found at the KDE forums, but I suspect those folks are getting beat up so badly right now that their attitudes can be forgiven (at least for a while).

catweazel wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:11 am
I tried...
I'm not big on reproducing an entire post. Let me just say that I agree with absolutely everything your post said.
I am starting to customize a kubuntu OS on a testbed and, so far, I'm finding it very compatible with my previous environments and similar enough to be a very smooth transition. Also, I believe that Ubuntu/Canonical has the resources to continue with full-blown support of KDE for a long time. That would greatly reduce the probability of having to perform this effort yet again somewhere down the road. I have not settled on this choice yet - and I REFUSE to make any decision until I have explored as many things as I can - but kubuntu is currently a top-tier alternative.[/quote]
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

User avatar
banjo
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:31 pm
Location: Reading, Massachusetts

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by banjo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:14 am

I am looking at going back to Mageia...
I read about this in another thread. You also mentioned that you tried and rejected kubuntu. Since I'm finding kubuntu to be an excellent candidate I'm wondering what negatives you uncovered.
Sorry for the omission. I did not repeat here what I had written in that other thread, but here it is for completeness.
I loaded Kubuntu on the computer to try it, but the OS would lock up and start hitting the disk 100%, never coming out of the loop. After boots and reboots, when the screen saver came on, the computer hung up so badly it could not track the mouse cursor. So I threw Kubuntu in the trash bin.

I put Debian KDE on the computer, and I could not figure out how to get the WiFi to connect to finish the installation. It seems that everything you want to have in Debian, including the WiFi drivers needs to be installed manually, which means sneakernet with USB sticks since I have no access to a wired internet where that computer is located. So Debian went into the trash can as well.
Operating systems that take a nutty on the disk drive are not stable in my book. I never got Debian working because it became apparent that I would have to become an expert in drivers before I could even hook up to the internet to finish the installation. Too hard for me.

Earlier, before I moved to Mint KDE, I tried Cinnamon. I found that it would not mount and display my NTFS backup drives. After many hours of trouble-shooting I figured out that the OS was mounting the disk just fine, but the file browser, nemo, could not handle it. After more hours of trying to replace the default file browser with Dolphin, and failing, I simply moved to Mint KDE, and I am happy with that.

I am now running Mageia 6 on my test computer, but it has started telling me that there is no internet even though it has connected to the WiFi server. I am stuck with WiFi in its location, and even though it tells me that it has connected to my WiFi just fine, it still insists that there is no internet. That is strange since I have been using it on the internet now for a few weeks. They just updated the kernel, so I might try it with an old kernel and see if that is the problem.

I really like Mint KDE. It is stable, and it mostly works. But KDE is not optional in my case, so I have to find something that works and supports KDE. I would go with kubuntu, but on my system it appears to be very unstable.

Banjo
(_)=='=~
If only the best bird sang, the forest would be a very quiet place.

Hoser Rob
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:57 am

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Hoser Rob » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:00 am

braingateway wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:35 am
KDE5 is not usable anyway. ....
Noob rubbish.

User avatar
sdibaja
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Baja California, Mexico

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by sdibaja » Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:59 am

@banjo you said "I put Debian KDE on the computer, and I could not figure out how to get the WiFi to connect to finish the installation."
were you using the non-free ISO? It includes the proprietary drivers and installs what you need when it detects your hardware. Here is a link to the non-free ISO direct downloads and torrents: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... e+nonfree/
That was a major hurdle I had to get over as I don't have access to direct connect on many of the installs that I do.

Hoser Rob
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4325
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:57 am

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Hoser Rob » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:40 am

tovian wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:29 pm
...I don't think any of the current Mint-KDE users want to give Mint up. ...
I'll happily give it up. Why in the flying frak should I support a distro that doesn't support the DE I prefer? It's just another Ubuntu based distro. Better than most but still.

User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:43 am

banjo wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:14 am
I would go with kubuntu, but on my system it appears to be very unstable.
Different hardware can produce all sorts of different results, but I would suggest you might have a download that's buggy. You might want to try another one to see if that might be the issue. I only say this because Mint-KDE is so closely related to kubuntu that it seems there should not be any MAJOR problems such as you are seeing.

On the other hand, if there are major "kubuntu / hardware" issues, it would be good to note those for future reference.
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

User avatar
banjo
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:31 pm
Location: Reading, Massachusetts

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by banjo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:19 pm

sdibaja wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:59 am
@banjo you said "I put Debian KDE on the computer, and I could not figure out how to get the WiFi to connect to finish the installation."
were you using the non-free ISO? It includes the proprietary drivers and installs what you need when it detects your hardware. Here is a link to the non-free ISO direct downloads and torrents: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... e+nonfree/
That was a major hurdle I had to get over as I don't have access to direct connect on many of the installs that I do.
Nope. I was using the regular Debian ISO since the non-free was reporting some dubious support enthusiasm.

I can try again with the non-free. I am doing this on an experimental system, so there is not much to lose.
If only the best bird sang, the forest would be a very quiet place.

User avatar
banjo
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:31 pm
Location: Reading, Massachusetts

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by banjo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:21 pm

tovian wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:43 am
banjo wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:14 am
I would go with kubuntu, but on my system it appears to be very unstable.
Different hardware can produce all sorts of different results, but I would suggest you might have a download that's buggy. You might want to try another one to see if that might be the issue. I only say this because Mint-KDE is so closely related to kubuntu that it seems there should not be any MAJOR problems such as you are seeing.

On the other hand, if there are major "kubuntu / hardware" issues, it would be good to note those for future reference.
That is what I was thinking when I installed it, but it really did totally lock up my system. I think the Mint is 16, and I loaded Ubuntu 17, which could be a problem, But then, if the upcoming versions of Ubuntu won't work for me later, there is not much point in jumping into that distro.
If only the best bird sang, the forest would be a very quiet place.

User avatar
banjo
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:31 pm
Location: Reading, Massachusetts

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by banjo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:30 pm

I am now running Mageia 6 on my test computer, but it has started telling me that there is no internet even though it has connected to the WiFi server. I am stuck with WiFi in its location, and even though it tells me that it has connected to my WiFi just fine, it still insists that there is no internet. That is strange since I have been using it on the internet now for a few weeks. They just updated the kernel, so I might try it with an old kernel and see if that is the problem.
A quick update on Mageia 6. I tried the previous kernel with the same results.... the WiFi is connected and showing periodic traffic, but the browser tells me there is no internet. When I tried to ping google.com it said that there was no DNS to find it. So I rebooted back into the new kernel. Same result. No internet.

So I started looking at the network configuration, I ran iwconfig, I ran the network monitor, etc. to see if something was set up incorrectly. I didn't change anything, just looked. The network monitor showed periodic download pulses, and no uploads. The browser says "No internet".

And then....... suddenly....... the internet healed and started to work. I can ping. My browser is happy. We are now good to go.

????

After 50 years of working with computers (yes.... I am that old).... I still don't understand all the magic. LOL

Banjo
(_)=='=~
If only the best bird sang, the forest would be a very quiet place.

User avatar
kc1di
Level 13
Level 13
Posts: 4732
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:44 pm
Location: Maine USA

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by kc1di » Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:33 pm

Though I find nothing wrong with Cinnamon and Mate even xfce4 I've tried several KDE distros since the October Announcement.
If for no other reason just to see which ones I like and could recommend to others. Here's my list in order of preference with a few notes on pluses and minuses.
1. Neon - + up to date KDE wise - you won't get any newer KDE desktop + 'built on a stable base Ubuntu 16.04 reminds me much of Mint KDE.
2. PCLinuxOS + Nice kde desktop + semi rolling release - many important programs are updated quickly - others are rather old. Nice group of people on their forums.
3. Debian + stable Plus clean KDE install minus more difficult to configure after install.
4. Kubuntu Nice KDE destop based on Ubuntu works well - Just never really clicked with it though possibly because I never left it installed that long.
5. Mageia Never had good luck with it. it always breaks eventually on my hardware. Just does not feel as stable as others.
6. Manjaro 17 - Nice KDE desktop - nice font rendering (think the ugly fonts on some distros are why I haven't stuck with them.) - never got my wireless working on this one though it works on their xfce version.
That's my list for what it's worth or not :)
Easy tips : https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/
Linux Mint Installation Guide: http://linuxmint-installation-guide.rea ... en/latest/
Registered Linux User #462608

User avatar
Joss
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:38 am
Location: 19th Century Europe

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Joss » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:11 pm

Has any of you tried openSuse?

hrmcrm
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:59 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by hrmcrm » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:39 pm

Joss wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:11 pm
Has any of you tried openSuse?
I used it for years and really like it. I switched to Mint when openSUSE stopped providing a standard 32-bit version. I wanted one distribution with KDE to run on all my old ThinkPads. OpenSUSE provides a 32-bit rolling release, Tumbleweed. I tried it and it worked, but there were just too many updates for my taste.

OpenSUSE has YaST system toolset, which I found very functional. OpenSUSE got samba configured and running much more easily than does Mint.
The openSUSE forum is active and helpful.
I may go back to openSUSE for the 64-bit machines after Mint 18.3 runs out, and find another DE for the 32-bit machines.
Howard
ThinkPads 310ED, 600E, T23, X41, X60, T61, X201, E550

User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:34 pm

Joss wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:11 pm
Has any of you tried openSuse?
I tried it a couple of years ago - even took a Linux online class using it - but I simply couldn't get past what I thought was the ugliest logo on the entire internet.

I readily acknowledge that this is a fairly ridiculous objection. Nevertheless, any time something really bugs one (no pun intended) it can take a LOT from the experience, and leave one feeling less than confident with the total package.

kc1di wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:33 pm
...
That's my list for what it's worth or not
Your observations and experiences are EXACTLY what I/we should be looking for in this thread. I/we may not agree with everything, but any information, presented in a professional manner, tends to have positive repercussions further on down the line. I will PM you with some feedback.
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

Post Reply

Return to “KDE”