Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:49 am

I think I have found my solution - at least it's looking good so far.

I tried Mint-Cinnamon a couple of months ago. I do not care for it.

I've installed and am configuring Mint-Mate (18.3). It's fast and smooth; navigation and settings are pretty intuitive; networking (Samba) pre-installed and works right out of the box; split-window available in file-manager (Caja); Synaptic package manager; Sudo works; can still run GUI-apps with root privileges; etc. I don't have much experience yet, but this seems like my winner of all the ones I've tried.

I am going to stay with this for a while and hope there's not a show-stopper somewhere down the road.

I do understand that as soon as I say this the Mint team will probably start making plans to drop this distro as well.
:roll: :wink:
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by sdibaja » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:31 am

Good! I am happy for you.

Unfortunately Linux Mint has announced that they are going to drop Mate with the new LMDE 3. Cinnamon Only.
So reading between the lines, I don't think Linux Mint will continue with Mate long term, but that is just a wild guess.

If you really like Mate I suggest you check out some other distros. The one I prefer, and have settled on, is Debian Stretch Mate. There is no need to replace what you have, just install alongside and dual boot.
Debian is Not real simple to install, and it takes a bit of tweaking after it has been installed. I starts very bare bones but I believe anything that Mint has is either in Debian or readily available... with a bit of work.
The benefit is it is rock solid Stable, and you can build it up any way that you like.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Arch_Enemy » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:47 pm

tovian wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:49 am
I think I have found my solution - at least it's looking good so far.

I tried Mint-Cinnamon a couple of months ago. I do not care for it.

I've installed and am configuring Mint-Mate (18.3). It's fast and smooth; navigation and settings are pretty intuitive; networking (Samba) pre-installed and works right out of the box; split-window available in file-manager (Caja); Synaptic package manager; Sudo works; can still run GUI-apps with root privileges; etc. I don't have much experience yet, but this seems like my winner of all the ones I've tried.

I am going to stay with this for a while and hope there's not a show-stopper somewhere down the road.

I do understand that as soon as I say this the Mint team will probably start making plans to drop this distro as well.
:roll: :wink:

I tried Cinnnamon ans still have it installed as a "fallback" resource, but MATE is my usual desktop. It's a bit less resource-intensive than Cinnamon, and since I am an old Windows 95/2000 fan it's the closest thing to the ol' destop as I can get. I spend hours modifying it to get the old M$ feel of classic Windows with a sprinkling of Gnome 2. :D

I've mentioned before, I've broken Arch installs by getting Gnome2 loaded by hand only to have a "rolling update" bork my libraries and then have to reload the whole system. Since they adopted MATE it happens less frequently.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by TheMonster0 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:43 pm

Are we still be able to install KDE if we choose? I use many KDE programs like K3B.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by all41 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:56 pm

tovian wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:49 am
I think I have found my solution - at least it's looking good so far.

I tried Mint-Cinnamon a couple of months ago. I do not care for it.

I've installed and am configuring Mint-Mate (18.3). It's fast and smooth; navigation and settings are pretty intuitive; networking (Samba) pre-installed and works right out of the box; split-window available in file-manager (Caja); Synaptic package manager; Sudo works; can still run GUI-apps with root privileges; etc. I don't have much experience yet, but this seems like my winner of all the ones I've tried.

I am going to stay with this for a while and hope there's not a show-stopper somewhere down the road.

I do understand that as soon as I say this the Mint team will probably start making plans to drop this distro as well.
:roll: :wink:
You will find MATE very stable, useable, and customizable--and I have found the KDE multimedia apps integrate well.
All the Mints have some desirable features though
Proud to be a supporter and monthly contributor to Mint.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by acheronuk » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:02 pm

TheMonster0 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:43 pm
Are we still be able to install KDE if we choose? I use many KDE programs like K3B.
Unless Mint makes some very odd conflicting packages/changes in their own packages, which is highly unlikely, then all KDE things in the ubuntu archive should remain installable and useable.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by cottfcfan » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:30 am

Thought I'd chime in here, with my opinion. I have been using KDE Neon for the last 12 months, & must say for me it is KDE done properly. No bloat. Fast, & rock solid stable. You only need to install the apps you need, & don't have the menus cluttered with things you'll never use. My only concern is how long the project will run. I do hope it's here for the long term. I have compared to
SolydK, Mint KDE, Kubuntu, PCLOS, & OpenSuse. For me it's streets ahead. Despite a number of updates, as KDE is kept upto date, I have never encountered 1 crash, freeze, or any unusual behavior. It just works.
Being minimal it may take a bit of time to set up as you want it, but that's a small price to pay, for what you get.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Joss » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:09 am

Kubuntu is the closest to Mint KDE you'll find. The jump is pretty much straightforward.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:40 pm

TheMonster0 wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:43 pm
Are we still be able to install KDE if we choose?
If you read through this thread (and some of the others that discuss Mint dropping the KDE distro) you will learn that xenopeek (a Mint Administrator) announced that he would be writing scripts for Mint users who still want to run KDE. After that distro is dropped anyone who still wants to run KDE should be able to install the Xfce distro then, using his script(s), install KDE into (on top of) that environment. Refer to this thread

We haven't heard from xenopeek regarding his progress, but the deadline is still a long way off so there's no reason to panic.
Also, if you read back through this thread you may learn of some other reasons that KDE is becoming less attractive to some current users.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:16 pm

cottfcfan wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:30 am
I do hope it's here for the long term.
That's not a problem for everyone, but it's a big problem for me. Until they announce some permanence or provide more information on exactly how they see the product's future I am reluctant to invest time in loading, customizing, and acclimating to a system that I might have to give up. I may not find a truly long-term Linux combination that I favor, but I'm going to keep looking until there are simply no more possibilities. I really dislike getting all "comfy" with a computer environment just to have the provider jerk it out from under me.

Joss wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:09 am
Kubuntu is the closest to Mint KDE you'll find. The jump is pretty much straightforward.
I agree. I was prepared to go that route until I found out what KDE is up to. Already (with Kubuntu) - as well as in the near future for most other distro's that I could run KDE on top of - some of the KDE functions I use frequently have been removed. Once again, I really dislike getting "comfy" with my computer's software then have the software provider make substantial changes that have a LARGE and VERY NEGATIVE impact of my "quality of computing life".
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by sichenia » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:11 pm

Well, I've been a linux user for over a decade and now let me tell you that I'm extremely disappointed.

To me KDE is simply ESSENTIAL. And I love the KDE 3.5 one!!
Let me explain: I have eyesight problems. I need to customize fonts and colors and every tiny aspect of the desktop appearance not to feel my eyes burning after 10 minutes of pc use. Only KDE lets me do that the way I want it to.
I abhor all the fancy effects that are so glamorous nowadays. Plasma to me is an abomination. I like my desktop as similar to the Windows XP-3.11 one as possible (not as minimal as xfce though!). Only KDE gives me that (and lately I had to sweat a lot to have it as I love it).

I used Opensuse since the 10.2 version (KDE of course) and decided to ditch it because the problems were becoming constant and the support was not as effective as it used to be. One day it was flash, the other day the swap didn't work, another time an update messed up with something else...I don't like to change system too often so I love LTS distros. Still Suse had issues and they kept telling me 'go with the latest version', too bad that the newer one was always a nightmare to configure. At last I installed Mint some 6 months ago and to be sure that everything worked I had to go to a professional cause things become more and more complicated with linux, while once I used to be able to set up stuff by myself. I would be extremely disappointed to hear that KDE will be dropped.
Kubuntu should be my first choice, but on my old pc it always refused to install, so I have a very bad opinion about it.

What will I do? I will look for a distro that has a feel as I love it. But if I don't find it, I will not adapt. I am tired. I used Debian, Mandriva, Suse, Mint and the only things I asked were:
- a system that LOOKED as I wanted it to, and
- that could run the few programs I used (Thunderbird, Firefox, Kmymoney, Devede, VLC, XMMS)
KDE+any distro gave me that. Then what happens? Firefox becomes a nightmare and I have to switch to Palemoon, reconfiguring everything. XMMS is dropped and I have to go to Audacious. Thunderbird is under constant threat of sudden death. KDE is going farther and farther away from what I ask from it with every release, while no other DE takes its place. Tweaking the appearance of the system is harder and harder. Crashes are more frequent. Malware becomes a threat even on linux.
I am wondering if it may be time to go back to windows. Linux used to be worth the extra effort. Now the effort is growing constantly, and what you get in return is lesser still. I am so, so tired.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by banjo » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:02 pm

Have you tried the Apple products? They are fully integrated, and a lot of people love them. They are a bit expensive, but they work out of the box.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by ArtGirl » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:47 pm

sichenia wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:11 pm
Well, I've been a linux user for over a decade and now let me tell you that I'm extremely disappointed.
Let me explain: I have eyesight problems.

- a system that LOOKED as I wanted it to, and
- that could run the few programs I used (Thunderbird, Firefox, Kmymoney, Devede, VLC, XMMS)

I am wondering if it may be time to go back to windows. Linux used to be worth the extra effort. Now the effort is growing constantly, and what you get in return is lesser still. I am so, so tired.
So sorry to hear that sichenia, and no wonder you're fed up! I worry sometimes about how things keep changing overall, and not always for the best, but, after looking around and trying many distros, the conclusion I came to is that Mint really is the best of the bunch ... stable and reliable, and it doesn't rush changes, whereas other distros seem to release unstable versions, just to include the newest things immediately, seeming to use people as guinea pigs far too much, rather than care about stability. Some people like and choose that, but all those forced changes can make it feel too much like Microsoft or Apple, the very things you least expect on Linux and don't want ... I have a large ipad pro myself (1st gen), and refused to update beyond the 10.1 I liked, lol, (to ensure no broken apps, ultimately), so that could be an option, although there are concerns about eye care; I bought a filtering screen protector, but eyes ache after quite a short period of using it. That doesn't happen with the Ugee display tablet or pc. Would a different monitor help, with better settings for eye health?

I bump up the overall text on Mate (Control Centre/Appearance/Fonts) straight away, and it's great. I believe Cinnamon may have better accessability features though? Others may know of things that can be installed on Mate/Cinnamon to help; sorry I can't advise regarding that, but if there are any programs that can give you the control you need about visual settings, I hope that can help fix things. Otherwise, KDE Neon has been referenced, and xenopeek may well be enabling xfce with a KDE install script, so there could well be some great solutions come along.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by all41 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:03 pm

btw: @ArtGirl
Though belated--Happy Birthday!
Proud to be a supporter and monthly contributor to Mint.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by ArtGirl » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:06 pm

all41 wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:03 pm
btw: @ArtGirl
Though belated--Happy Birthday!
Thank you very much, all41! Very nice of you. Older and, hopefully, wiser, lol. :lol:
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Radeon R9 255, Mesa 17.2.8, 4.15.0-13,
Lenovo x310, intel i7-4790, 16 ram,
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For any advice I've been able to add, eg re graphics tablets, please search forum.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by sichenia » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:32 am

ArtGirl wrote:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:47 pm

So sorry to hear that sichenia, and no wonder you're fed up! I worry sometimes about how things keep changing overall, and not always for the best, but, after looking around and trying many distros, the conclusion I came to is that Mint really is the best of the bunch ... stable and reliable, and it doesn't rush changes, whereas other distros seem to release unstable versions, just to include the newest things immediately, seeming to use people as guinea pigs far too much, rather than care about stability. Some people like and choose that, but all those forced changes can make it feel too much like Microsoft or Apple, the very things you least expect on Linux and don't want ... I have a large ipad pro myself (1st gen), and refused to update beyond the 10.1 I liked, lol, (to ensure no broken apps, ultimately), so that could be an option, although there are concerns about eye care; I bought a filtering screen protector, but eyes ache after quite a short period of using it. That doesn't happen with the Ugee display tablet or pc. Would a different monitor help, with better settings for eye health?

I bump up the overall text on Mate (Control Centre/Appearance/Fonts) straight away, and it's great. I believe Cinnamon may have better accessability features though? Others may know of things that can be installed on Mate/Cinnamon to help; sorry I can't advise regarding that, but if there are any programs that can give you the control you need about visual settings, I hope that can help fix things. Otherwise, KDE Neon has been referenced, and xenopeek may well be enabling xfce with a KDE install script, so there could well be some great solutions come along.
I agree that Mint is more stable then other distros and so far all things considered I was satisfied after tuning it up to my liking. But the DE makes the difference for me.
If KDE goes away, unless a similar one comes along, I'll go too.
My problems are related mostly to the dimension of the fonts and objects, so a different monitor makes no difference.
The options every distro offer for sight impaired people are no use to me because they're basically for near-blind people and -thank God- my problems are way smaller. I don't need huge stuff, I just need to make menus and fonts somewhat bigger but not so much to make pages and menus and all the rest so messed up to be unusable. And to fine tune colors and lighting so that they aren't a nuisance.
KDE is the de that allows more tweaking options. Other DEs either don't allow certain changes or if you change one thing, another one (that you didn't want to) changes too and it becomes a mess.
If xfce can have KDE over it I'll give it a try, but as I said I'm tired of always having to waste hours to have basic things working.
Thanks for your kind words and happy birthday!

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Joss » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:44 am

@sichenia

Spend some time with Xfce. It's not as configurable as KDE (nothing is :) ) but I think it'll have what you need.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:35 pm

sichenia wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:32 am
If xfce can have KDE over it I'll give it a try, but as I said I'm tired of always having to waste hours to have basic things working.
Be aware... xenopeek has advised (his answer to my first question HERE) that you may not have many choices of which KDE you can use when you install it on top of Xfce. He did not state any absolute restrictions, but his comments lead one in that direction.

I, too, am very tired of having to deal with this day-in and day-out. Sometimes I just want to say "screw it all". When the only computer issues I had to deal with were related to Windows life was a LOT simpler. I feel that Linux is no longer offering what I thought it was all about: all the choices to run your computer the way YOU wanted.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by banjo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:35 pm

I am running Mageia 6 on my other computer to see if it will satisfy my needs for control and stability.

I know that folks on this forum are not enamored of Mageia, but it seems to be fairly stable, and it is definitely KDE Plasma based. I have had to overcome some minor glitches to get all my tools running on Mageia 6, but so far it is all working. I have not run into any show-stopper problems (yet). The folks who put out Mageia are fairly old-school, and do not jump on the bandwagon to throw out all the old stuff for shiny new toys.

For example, I like the fact that Mageia still has a real root account. They do implement sudo, but you aren't forced to use it, and you can still log into root to do maintenance. Root is its own account, not the first regular user that you create during installation. Don't ask me what I think of sudo, you might get a rant.

I have been using Mandrake/Mandriva/Mageia long enough now that I know where stuff is. It feels like home. So, while I like Mint, once they drop KDE I am moving toward going back to Mageia.

I moved to Mint because I was having issues with the tools in Mageia 5 that I could not get resolved. But now I am having more serious issues with Mint than I am with Mageia 6. For example, on Mint krunner still crashes when I type into it. That isn't a show-stopper, but it is certainly annoying. I am unable to fix it or find a good workaround. It works fine on Mageia 6. The issues I was having on Mageia 5 seem to be resolved in Mageia 6.

As an aside, here is my OS protocol that I have adopted since 2003
  1. Dump fnWindows permanently.
  2. Run Linux as long as it works for me.
  3. When Linux no longer works for me, look at Apple products.
  4. When Apple products will not work for me, go off the grid.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by ArtGirl » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:17 pm

sichenia wrote:
Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:32 am

I agree that Mint is more stable then other distros and so far all things considered I was satisfied after tuning it up to my liking. But the DE makes the difference for me.
My problems are related mostly to the dimension of the fonts and objects, so a different monitor makes no difference.
The options every distro offer for sight impaired people are no use to me because they're basically for near-blind people and -thank God- my problems are way smaller.
If xfce can have KDE over it I'll give it a try, but as I said I'm tired of always having to waste hours to have basic things working.
Thanks for your kind words and happy birthday!
Thank you! :-) And I understand, as, yes, stability is expected about Linux and to not function like Microsoft/Apple etc. I worry eg about ia32-libs, as it is critical for most GOG purchases etc, although the most important thing personally (pressure sensitivity for art) I always have confidence in Mint about. I don't get why the overall Linux community even wants to change to Wayland or get rid of 32-bit; Linux stands for freedom/choice, after all! Surely investing further in bolstering xorg would be just as useful, and more stable, and it must be common knowledge that most of the gaming community need to be able to run older games or wrappers. It's clear that people often come over to Linux to get away from forced changes/closed systems, etc, so I'm stunned tbh. Maybe this has to do with the more commercial side of Linux/those who work more closely with Microsoft etc. Thank goodness Mint is not like that!

Glad to hear that you're not dealing with near-blindness, and here's hoping there's some really good solutions come along eg the xfce/KDE, so that you can enjoy using your computer.
18.3 Mate 64bit
Radeon R9 255, Mesa 17.2.8, 4.15.0-13,
Lenovo x310, intel i7-4790, 16 ram,
Ugee 2150


For any advice I've been able to add, eg re graphics tablets, please search forum.

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