Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Forum rules
Before you post please read how to get help
Post Reply
User avatar
sdibaja
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 653
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Baja California, Mexico

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by sdibaja » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:10 pm

I visit the KDE page now and again. https://www.kde.org/index
seems there lots of apps and versions released just yesterday. I am not a big fan but the true KDE devotees should keep an eye out over there, and participate/contribute also.

o-l-d
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:19 am

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by o-l-d » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:55 am

Every Thursday (there or about) the KDE team releases updates and they are added to the neon repos. The latest are 18.04 and are called the "first solid update of 2018". I added the neon repos to my Mint KDE 18.3 and it has been 99% bug free. Granted this gives me the latest Plasma on Mint but I don't recommend it for everyone.


@last-mint-kde ~ $ inxi -S
System: Host: last-mint-kde Kernel: 4.13.0-38-generic x86_64 (64 bit)
Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.12.4 Distro: Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia

You can also find me on KDE forums as kdeoldster 8)

User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:26 pm

I've just tried a NEON live session. Screen-tearing is bad and gets even worse (click thumbnail below).

Now I'm starting to wonder if the computer I'm testing with just doesn't have the "grunt" (it should, it will run Windows-7/64). Regardless, I will switch to another machine for testing, but, if I find that the problems I'm having with several live sessions go away when I use a machine with significantly more resources, then I may lose interest in these distro's.

Any thoughts on this ?

Image
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

o-l-d
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:19 am

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by o-l-d » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:00 pm

Have you tried changing graphics settings (Compositor) in live session? It seems that I also experienced minor tearing in live session unless I changed from OpenGL to XRender. After full install the tearing wasn't there using OpenGL. Live session is similar to a virtual machine and neither can run as smoothly as installed.

User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:01 am

o-l-d wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:00 pm
Have you tried changing graphics settings (Compositor) in live session?
...I changed from OpenGL to XRender
That worked GREAT - THANKS for the tip. I had wondered about the graphics settings, but I don't have any real knowledge in that area so I did not know what to do/change.

Sadly, what a pain-in-the-butt to get the live session to run correctly (on this hardware). If I need to boot a client machine to a live session, and the same thing occurs, I wouldn't feel good with them watching all the bad screens before I could get them fixed. Plus, it takes away time that I could be spending on problem resolution.

This brings up another issue... This is now the third distro that has problems for me with the live session. I run fairly vanilla hardware - nothing bleeding edge or exotic at all - so I would guess the problems I'm seeing are fairly common. If all it takes to mitigate those problems is a few more options in the boot menu so there are more choices for different environments (for different hardware) - I don't understand why the developers of those distros don't take that extra TINY step. Don't they want to show off how great their systems are? Don't they want to "WOW" people with a first impression? Are they trying to send the message that "this will work if you spend enough time fixing/adjusting/tweaking it"?
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

o-l-d
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:19 am

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by o-l-d » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:52 am

Just think of all the different hardware combinations that the developers would have to cover if they decided to add that step/option in boot menu. I have found that most distros include "live session" for users to get a "feel" for the distros and use the default graphics settings. I do agree that it could be a minor change that the default Compositor be set to XRender for "live sessions" because it is in fact a "virtual environment" since the os isn't installed to the hard disk/ SSD drive. There are a few distros that allow video resolution to be set in grub (OpenSUSE comes to mind first) when using a live session.

User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:53 pm

Well, Thanks to Banjo, I am now testing the MAGEIA live session that I could not get to boot all the way when I tested it before. In fact I am posting this from the MAGEIA live session. Turns out that the problem was rather simple... I had used Rufus (on Windows) to create the earlier Mageia bootable flash-drive - but Rufus formats the partition as Fat32 which MAGEIA does not like. I recreated the bootable image using the Mint Image Writer and (formatted EXT4) MAGEIA works just fine.

I'm sitting here laughing because it give me a slight touch of cardiac arrest:
the FIRST AD shown on the live-session Firefox Window invited me to "Meet Beautiful Thai Women"
I don't want any of that !!! :roll: and I don't want any of the virus/infection activity that comes from a lot of those sites :lol:

Anyway, I now have another very solid KDE-embedded candidate to evaluate :D
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:07 pm

o-l-d wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:52 am
Just think of all the different hardware combinations that the developers would have to cover
...I do agree that it could be a minor change that the default Compositor be set to XRender
...There are a few distros that allow video resolution to be set in grub
I wasn't thinking of a separate option for every generation of all known hardware ! I was just thinking they could have one additional line (for XRender) saying try this option if you are having problems with graphics or screen-tearing.

When I was testing SolydK I actually did look at the options (command line) for both of the live-session boot options. One of them is described as "Splash screen but no output" and the other is "Safe options - full output but no Splash screen". I tried modifying the command line for both to see if I could get Splash screen AND full output - but I was not successful... it's beyond my ability.
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

User avatar
sdibaja
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 653
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Baja California, Mexico

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by sdibaja » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:09 pm

Didn't you install it?

User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:28 pm

sdibaja wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:09 pm
Didn't you install it?
No, I'm not going to install it if the live session does not work properly. Even if it works correctly when installed that does not help when I need to boot a client machine to a Linux live session to fix Windows problems, or manipulate corrupted files, or simply copy user data.

I do not have the patience to use several different distro's at the same time. Whichever one I go with will have to be my ONLY Linux distro whether it's installed or running live.
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

User avatar
banjo
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:31 pm
Location: Reading, Massachusetts

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by banjo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:49 pm

Well, Thanks to Banjo, I am now testing the MAGEIA live session that I could not get to boot all the way when I tested it before.
Glad I could help. I actually just passed on the suggestion from benmc on the Mageia forum. Folks helping folks.

Banjo
(_)=='=~
If only the best bird sang, the forest would be a very quiet place.

User avatar
Arch_Enemy
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1205
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:28 pm

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Arch_Enemy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:48 pm

banjo wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:24 am
Nix sounds expensive with regard to disk space. They never delete any version of anything.

The old PDP-11 (yeah..... I'm that old) had a file system that did the same thing with files; when you saved an edit, the system simply flagged the old file as a numbered backup and made a new file. After about a week, the disk was full and we had to purge it. Pain in the neck because we never used the backup files ever. It sounds like Nix does the same sort of thing with packages. I wonder how long it would take to fill up a disk drive.

I might put it on a thumb drive and take a look.

Banjo
(_)=='=~
PDP-11/03 was the first computer I ever got my hands on.

"RSTS is one of the most secure operating systems ever". Sure. I used to break in by pressing CTRL-C as soon as the first welcome message started....:D "If we give you an account, will you please stop hacking into everything?" :lol:
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

tacoz
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:38 am
Location: Zoolooland

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tacoz » Tue May 01, 2018 10:59 am

OK... ever since 18.2 I moved over to KDE Neon. Primarily I felt--call me psychic--that the writing was on the wall for KDE . But with all the attention on Cinnamon and Mate, I wanted to know I was supported by our dev team. From early Cassandra days I saw and experienced that. But this announcement coupled with their valid reasons, confirmed that I made the right move. Kinda reminds me of those early days when gnome2 was dropped--one of many reasons why I stayed with Mint back then! Anyway, after reading through these threads, here are some of my findings (to some comments):

"because KDE neon is Ubuntu-based it would be a deal killer for me"
umm... and Mint KDE wasn't?
While Neon has Ubuntu core foundations, it's really focused on the KDE experience by providing really up-to-date Qt and KDE software
But for a more complete picture, please see Neon's FAQ

"no root in dolphin"
While this is covered extensively here and on the KDE forums, my simple solution was to install krusader and then Start Root Mode Krusader.
It does 99.9% of the GUI stuff that I may need it to do!

"discover is problematic"
Yes... if you don't use Neon!
It works just fine and yes with previous versions there was much hanging-unresponsiveness...
but this is no longer the case... at least for here and for now!

"screen tearing is bad"
Yes and yes... if you don't tweak the compositor settings!
My Intel driver is notorious for tearing amongst other issues
but I have a 60fps tearing test video and I can assure you there is none... whatsoever!

about mate and cinnamon
Mate reminds me too much of Gnome2 (or XP)... 'nuff said!
The early deployment days of Cinnamon kinda moved me towards the KDE space... I couldn't buy into that spice, but again, 'nuff said!
Besides... I live for k3b, kid3, kdenlive and the like; and yes one can install those on Xfce
but why do that when Plasma is just feature-crazy-wise-awesome! (IMHO)

about neon
I got there after--Mint--using Ubuntu mini iso+KDE minimal > Kubuntu > Nitrux > Ubuntu mini+server+KDE minimal > KDE Neon
Is Neon the best? No... but only because by itself, that's the wrong question!
I think if you look closely at those faqs and google-youtube where Jonathan Riddell comes from, what he stands for and his Linux philosophy... you may just also buy into Neon. I no longer have the urge to test distros in VMs... I feel content in this part of KDE land!
Last edited by tacoz on Thu May 03, 2018 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

o-l-d
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 116
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 1:19 am

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by o-l-d » Tue May 01, 2018 3:49 pm

I am still very pleased with my "FrankenMint" (Mint + Neon User Edition repos). But when the 18.04 version of Neon is released I will bid adieu to Mint as my main distro. It was a great run but as always every good thing comes to an end. Many thanks to Clem and the development teams for all their work over the years.


BTW FrankenMint is so sweet and I hate to say goodbye.

System: Host: last-mint-kde Kernel: 4.13.0-39-generic x86_64 (64 bit)
Desktop: KDE Plasma 5.12.5 Distro: Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia

FrankenMint desktop 8) Yes I am aware it says "Linux Mint 5.12 KDE" and has the Neon logo but that is what makes it my "FrankenMint" :D

http://i63.tinypic.com/k3skd0.jpg

nullsteph
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:45 pm

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by nullsteph » Fri May 04, 2018 10:20 pm

Oh crap! I just came to KDE because Ubuntu dropped features I relied on and Cinnamon doesn't offer them. What's the timeline for this?

tacoz
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 106
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:38 am
Location: Zoolooland

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tacoz » Sat May 05, 2018 5:24 am

nullsteph wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:20 pm
What's the timeline for this?
from the Mint Blog
In continuation with what’s been done in the past, Linux Mint 18.3 will feature a KDE edition, but it will be the last release to do so.

User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Mon May 07, 2018 11:02 am

tacoz wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 10:59 am
"no root in dolphin"
.........my simple solution was to install krusader and then Start Root Mode Krusader.
It does 99.9% of the GUI stuff that I may need it to do!
This was a great tip. I've used the "Commander" file-manager in the past (on Windows) - just to get the dual-pane capability. But, I never cared for it enough to switch to it permanently. "Krusader" is very similar to "Commander" - in fact the product descriptions state that it is a "Commander-like" file manager. I really DO NOT like no single-pane option, and I do not like the absence of a "file-system tree" display for navigation purposes, but "Krusader" is (contains) a "root-privilege" file manager that even works on the latest Kubuntu. I am very happy to find this capability.

@tacoz... THANKS FOR THE TIP !!
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

User avatar
RodJ
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:05 pm
Location: Cambridge, New Zealand.

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by RodJ » Thu May 17, 2018 9:45 pm

tovian wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 11:02 am
... and I do not like the absence of a "file-system tree" display for navigation purposes,
I'm a bit late replying here but Krusader does have a "file-system tree" option via a popup panel button which you can click on at the bottom of the panel. There are also other views available in this popup panel. See below:
Krusader tree box.jpeg
Running Mint 18.2 KDE and Kubuntu 14.04 on Intel Core-i5-4670 (3.4GHz), 16Gb Mem, 128Gb SSD, 2Tb HDD.

User avatar
tovian
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:17 pm
Location: Heart of Dixie

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Fri May 18, 2018 11:24 am

RodJ wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:45 pm
Krusader does have a "file-system tree" option via a popup panel button...
I have just tried this. It's getting a bit crowded, but it works.
Another great tip.
THANKS !!
“I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!"
"We're just the guys to do it.”

Animal House

Claverhouse
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 4:24 pm

Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Claverhouse » Sat May 19, 2018 10:17 pm

Change is an essential part of life : you just have to learn to ignore it.


The Environment is more important than any distro so when they drop KDE I shall drop Mint.


I never liked Gnome, and all the others seem kinda basic, but it's good people who prefer them can have them: diversity is our strength. However, even if it's a bad decision, I respect Mint's makers right to drop KDE or anything, so I'm just grateful they provided it until now.

It's likely I'll go back to the best, OpenSuse; but I've used Mint KDE the last few years because OpenSuse got too dark and fugly. But once this minimalist Fat Slab imbecility dies down, I'm confident aesthetics will return... Not that I ever see much point in Plasma...

And as I said elsewhere, File Managers were really good a few years ago: all twin-pane with a side-tree, Konqueror for living, Dolphin for root stuff. Now there's only Dolphin, which was changed to be inadequate: it took a while to even get a rather feeble side-tree, which would not be obvious to new people, because without sane defaults they won't know what a proper file manager looks like. For searching I actually have to use twin-pane Krusader.

[ Having used Windows 10 on friends' computers their file manager is pretty crap too. ]



And one more thing, recalled by the fact that installing Brave browser brought along the dread gvfs which then had to be eradicated along with Brave. Nearly all distros/environments insist on setting up Search things to break and slow down the computer: it is important, and maybe more important in KDE, when installing a new OS, to turn off search ( I'm not gonna try and find images or files with semantic tags, not ever, life is short ), and to get rid of all traces and triggers of Gnome-tracker, Baloo, Strigi, Virtuoso, Nepomuk, Akonadi etc. etc. that is placed there. The reason for KDE being worse is that turning off Akonadi meant a load of other inter-depending apps couldn't be used or they would trigger the disease: kmail, KAddressBook, KOrganizer, Akgregator, Kontact, KNotes etc..



And one has to do all this. every. damn. time .

Post Reply

Return to “KDE”