Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

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tdockery97
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tdockery97 » Fri May 25, 2018 3:35 pm

Based on past experiences with dist-upgrading, my humble opinion is that you should just back up all your data files and do a fresh install of Kubuntu 18.04. Far fewer headaches.
Kubuntu 18.04

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Marziano » Fri May 25, 2018 3:37 pm

@tovian
For an upgrade path from 17.10 to 18.04, if you want to go that route: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BionicBeaver/ReleaseNotes
Should work regardless DE.

OBS!
Correction: for upgrading Kubuntu from 16.04 or 17.10 to 18.04
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Bioni ... es/Kubuntu
Last edited by Marziano on Fri May 25, 2018 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Fri May 25, 2018 3:41 pm

tdockery97 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 3:35 pm
my humble opinion is that you should just back up all your data files and do a fresh install...
I believe I favor that approach as well. I think it's almost always better (when possible) to go with a "fresh start". I think I'll download the latest iso tonight.
Thanks !!

@Marziano -
For an upgrade path from 17.10 to 18.04, if you want to go that route: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Bioni ... es/Kubuntu
Should work regardless DE.
Thanks!! I'll keep that in mind.
Last edited by tovian on Fri May 25, 2018 4:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Marziano » Fri May 25, 2018 4:01 pm

tovian wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 3:41 pm
Hi tovian,
Wrong link/info in my previous post. I'm :(
This https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Bioni ... es/Kubuntu should be the correct one.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by KBD47 » Fri May 25, 2018 5:46 pm

I roll the dice with an upgrade when it is much more work to do a fresh install. No doubt a fresh install is best, but sometimes you get lucky with an upgrade, especially if you have not changed a lot of settings or have lots of PPA's.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by MtnDewManiac » Fri May 25, 2018 7:09 pm

KBD47 wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 5:46 pm
I roll the dice with an upgrade when it is much more work to do a fresh install.
I have been told for years now that a common sense approach to partitioning - placing one's /home directory in its own partition - makes this much simpler.

I'll admit that I do not do the above. I sometimes use the upgrade option and, since the good folks here showed me how I can download a linux .ISO directly to my (only) hard drive and quickly & easily install it using no other media, sometimes go that route. Thanks to that method, right now, my Grub menu has options for Mint 17.3, some version of Mint 18 - and the original .ISOs for each, that I can boot into at need (although I cannot actually foresee that need unless I break something... which has proven remarkably hard to do with Mint (thanks, Clem!)).

I like to have a setup with two different (supported) versions of Mint, again to guard against some sort of disaster. Unfortunately, I find that I like using Mint 17 better than 18. But it will obviously be EOL first. At that time, I'll make sure all my files are current on the Mint 18 partition and probably use the "install from .ISO downloaded to my hard drive" method to do a fresh Mint 19 install where 17 currently resides. That'll give me some continuity, while allowing me to start with a clean slate in regards to Mint 19.

Regards,
MDM
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by KBD47 » Fri May 25, 2018 7:43 pm

MtnDewManiac wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 7:09 pm
I have been told for years now that a common sense approach to partitioning - placing one's /home directory in its own partition - makes this much simpler.

I'll admit that I do not do the above. I sometimes use the upgrade option and, since the good folks here showed me how I can download a linux .ISO directly to my (only) hard drive and quickly & easily install it using no other media, sometimes go that route. Thanks to that method, right now, my Grub menu has options for Mint 17.3, some version of Mint 18 - and the original .ISOs for each, that I can boot into at need (although I cannot actually foresee that need unless I break something... which has proven remarkably hard to do with Mint (thanks, Clem!)).

I like to have a setup with two different (supported) versions of Mint, again to guard against some sort of disaster. Unfortunately, I find that I like using Mint 17 better than 18. But it will obviously be EOL first. At that time, I'll make sure all my files are current on the Mint 18 partition and probably use the "install from .ISO downloaded to my hard drive" method to do a fresh Mint 19 install where 17 currently resides. That'll give me some continuity, while allowing me to start with a clean slate in regards to Mint 19.

Regards,
MDM
Wow, you sound a lot like me :) I have never once set up a separate home partition in 7 years of using Linux. I know how as I have partitioned the crap out of hard drives, I just never felt the need. I have a 500gb hard drive right now with 6 partitions waiting for testing Mint betas. I have MX17 and Kubuntu 18.04 on it as 'regulars'. The rest for testing. But I have a Thinkpad with Debian 9 on it that is left alone. My daily driver. I have another small laptop with Mint Xfce that is also left alone.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sat May 26, 2018 9:31 am

I downloaded kubuntu-18.04 last night. Later today (I hope) I will install it on top of my current kubuntu.

When I first started using Linux I did not put /home on a separate partition. Then I read about a lot of people doing it and I thought I could see some potential benefit in that. So, for the last 6-9 months I have been doing all my Linux installs with /home on a separate (logical) partition.

Today, when I install kubuntu-18.04, I will re-use the existing /home partition just to see the results. If it goes goofy I'll just boot a live session, rename the /home partition, then re-install kubuntu-18.04 with a NEW /home. This way I'll have a little of my own experience with re-using /home.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sat May 26, 2018 5:26 pm

Sunny Beach !!! That's what I say real loud, in public, when what I really want to say is "son of a b**ch". 8)

I got my kubuntu-18.04 installed. I re-used the /home partition but stepped on the (older) / partition. I am delighted :D so far.

All my system settings (like the permissions I had modified for /usr/local/bin) were gone. All my Documents&Downloads,etc.were preserved. KDE picked up all (as far as I can tell) my previous settings (including my favorites in Dolphin and my multiple activities/desktops - with the right background colors - all my desktop icons (even though all the programs I had manually installed were missing), etc. I still have a lot to do to get back to where I was earlier, but this will save a great deal of time.

I shall say again, "Sunny Beach... this is good" (and it's also sunny in Atlanta right now)
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by KBD47 » Sat May 26, 2018 8:25 pm

Has anyone tried Neptune 5? https://neptuneos.com/en/news-reader/ne ... lease.html
That one looks interesting with a stable Debian base and the latest Plasma 5.12 lts release.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sun May 27, 2018 7:40 am

KBD47 wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:25 pm
Has anyone tried Neptune 5?...
That one looks interesting with a stable Debian base and the latest Plasma 5.12 lts release.
VERY Interesting question. About the time you were composing your post I had started to think or wonder about the pluses and minuses of eliminating not just Mint, but also Ubuntu, and having just Debian with KDE on top. I went to the Debian site and started looking at what they offer. Then, I saw your question and reference so I looked into it briefly. Well, it appears to be almost the same thing in a single package instead of having to load KDE on top of Debian manually.

Last night I downloaded Neptune and will be booting/installing it later today. My evaluation will not count for much since I don't have the years of experience other folks have, but I'll report what I see.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by KBD47 » Sun May 27, 2018 9:51 am

tovian wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:40 am
KBD47 wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:25 pm
Has anyone tried Neptune 5?...
That one looks interesting with a stable Debian base and the latest Plasma 5.12 lts release.
VERY Interesting question. About the time you were composing your post I had started to think or wonder about the pluses and minuses of eliminating not just Mint, but also Ubuntu, and having just Debian with KDE on top. I went to the Debian site and started looking at what they offer. Then, I saw your question and reference so I looked into it briefly. Well, it appears to be almost the same thing in a single package instead of having to load KDE on top of Debian manually.

Last night I downloaded Neptune and will be booting/installing it later today. My evaluation will not count for much since I don't have the years of experience other folks have, but I'll report what I see.
Great minds think alike :) I installed it last night, curiosity got the best of me, it sounded perfect, Debian stable based with a newer version of Plasma. The installer was as easy to use as Ubuntu's. Not sure it has anything to recommend it over Kubuntu, except for some additional software, but a very nice option from what I can tell right now. I also need to spend a bit more time with it.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by sdibaja » Sun May 27, 2018 11:40 am

There seems to be some confusion about Debian. You really do not need to load KDE (or any other desktop) on top of Debian manually.
For KDE there are these ISOs with all that fuss already done for you.
Torrent: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... so.torrent
direct download: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... onfree.iso

you may not care for the way it is arranged, that is a personal taste thing.

other desktops: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... -firmware/

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by o-l-d » Sun May 27, 2018 12:08 pm

Today I bid a sad adieu to Linux Mint. I have tried installing KDE over Xfce and it works well enough but I can not continue to use a distro that doesn't support the desktop that I prefer. After many virtual machines with other KDE distros my mind is made up, KDE Neon is the choice for me. I have much respect for the development team and their approach to FOSS plus the fact that I will have the latest Plasma desktop on the same base as used by Linux Mint.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sun May 27, 2018 12:28 pm

sdibaja wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 11:40 am
There seems to be some confusion about Debian. You really do not need to load KDE (or any other desktop) on top of Debian manually.
For KDE there are these ISOs with all that fuss already done for you.
Understood - and Thanks !
That was my confusion... at first I thought there was a KDE iso, then as I read more it began to sound like it had to be done manually, then I quit researching in order to do something else.

I'm having some issues with Neptune. The live session boots properly, and I was able to install it. Then, I used "System Settings" to change a few things like I normally do. Now, it will boot, but it totally freezes after I have put in my login password. I'm now installing it again. The problem may be due to my not doing the obligatory initial updates so I will do those before I make any other changes this time.

I'm planning to download Debian-KDE tonight - then begin testing it tomorrow.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by KBD47 » Sun May 27, 2018 12:43 pm

sdibaja wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 11:40 am
There seems to be some confusion about Debian. You really do not need to load KDE (or any other desktop) on top of Debian manually.
For KDE there are these ISOs with all that fuss already done for you.
Torrent: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... so.torrent
direct download: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... onfree.iso

you may not care for the way it is arranged, that is a personal taste thing.

other desktops: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... -firmware/
Thanks for pointing that out. One can either choose the KDE Debian iso or as I do, use the netinstaller and you choose KDE when it comes to DE settings during install. Debian is challenging unless one uses the non-free iso's when it comes to things like wifi and having other firmware work out of the box as one is used to with Ubuntu/Mint. Also the default DE themes and icons often look horrible and need tweaking.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by KBD47 » Sun May 27, 2018 12:51 pm

tovian wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 12:28 pm
I'm having some issues with Neptune. The live session boots properly, and I was able to install it. Then, I used "System Settings" to change a few things like I normally do. Now, it will boot, but it totally freezes after I have put in my login password. I'm now installing it again. The problem may be due to my not doing the obligatory initial updates so I will do those before I make any other changes this time.

I'm planning to download Debian-KDE tonight - then begin testing it tomorrow.
My excitement for Neptune is wearing off as well. Discovery app does not work and is featured on the desktop. It crashes every time I open it. There are several updates and that could be why you had issues, though you may need to see if your video driver is properly supported as well with the screen freezes.
Vanilla Debian is more work out of the box, but it is always a risk adding newer software to a Debian Stable base. Also the more I think about it, the less interested I become in having two desktops on one base like using Xfce Mint and adding KDE. I'm going to hold onto Kubuntu as I believe that is the best option right now, plus take a look at KDE Debian Stable for another machine I want to be rock solid.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sun May 27, 2018 3:03 pm

KBD47 wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 12:51 pm
Discovery app does not work and is featured on the desktop. It crashes every time I open it.
Well, Neptune did not survive as a candidate. Discover also crashed on my machine every time I opened it (before and after the re-install). Finally, I used "sudo apt-get" to install Synaptic. I then did a re-install of Discover. That did not fix it - it continued to crash after every launch. Then, I did an "upgrade all" using Synaptic. The result was precisely the same as the first installation... as soon as I put in my password to login Neptune totally froze (only way out was [alt + sys-rq] + b - or power button).

I may still test a Debian-created Debian-KDE iso, but I'm starting to see that it could hardly hold an advantage over kubuntu - which is working perfectly. I think this will pretty much conclude my search for a successor to Mint-KDE, but I'll keep looking and testing right up to the day I feel I need to change to keep up with technology (especially security-related).
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Sundowner » Sun May 27, 2018 3:06 pm

[tovian wrote]I'm planning to download Debian-KDE tonight - then begin testing it tomorrow.[/quote]

Please take a little extra time after you complete this install to try to install printer drivers (HP is the best choice for any Linux OS). I've almost always had best results with printer drivers using any Ubuntu derivative using the built in printer driver tool in the settings apt. Same for Nvidia drivers, though you'll have to work a little harder in Neon, but not much. [sudo apt install nvidia-current, I believe is the correct cli command]

Report back if you will please. Thanks

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by sdibaja » Sun May 27, 2018 3:08 pm

KBD47 wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 12:51 pm

>big snip<

Vanilla Debian is more work out of the box, but it is always a risk adding newer software to a Debian Stable base. Also the more I think about it, the less interested I become in having two desktops on one base like using Xfce Mint and adding KDE. I'm going to hold onto Kubuntu as I believe that is the best option right now, plus take a look at KDE Debian Stable for another machine I want to be rock solid.
I think that everything in the Debian Stable repos is OK and will Probably Not mess up your system... excepting multiple Desktops.

I am just loving my new MX17 with Mate desktop on top. Gazillions of nice gadgets, and a working remaster tool to boot.
But there are some preferences that conflict with the Xfce apps, power managers too. It is a bit of a struggle tearing out stuff to reach my goals... almost easier to start with pure Debian and add what you want.

SO, I multi boot. (running Debian now because I don't want to mess around)
Last edited by sdibaja on Sun May 27, 2018 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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