Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Sundowner » Sun May 27, 2018 3:08 pm

Kubuntu 18.04 (and maybe earlier versions, too) include Muon package manager, a rebuild on Synaptic, which I prefer and always install. I don't care for Discover except for its update manager.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by KBD47 » Sun May 27, 2018 4:19 pm

tovian wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:03 pm

Well, Neptune did not survive as a candidate. Discover also crashed on my machine every time I opened it (before and after the re-install). Finally, I used "sudo apt-get" to install Synaptic. I then did a re-install of Discover. That did not fix it - it continued to crash after every launch. Then, I did an "upgrade all" using Synaptic. The result was precisely the same as the first installation... as soon as I put in my password to login Neptune totally froze (only way out was [alt + sys-rq] + b - or power button).

I may still test a Debian-created Debian-KDE iso, but I'm starting to see that it could hardly hold an advantage over kubuntu - which is working perfectly. I think this will pretty much conclude my search for a successor to Mint-KDE, but I'll keep looking and testing right up to the day I feel I need to change to keep up with technology (especially security-related).
Actually just installed Debian Stretch KDE using the non-free netinstall iso. I'm definitely going to use non-free from now on as it had my wifi firmware and sets up contrib non-free automatically in the sources. Nice time saver. I changed the Breeze theme to Breeze Dark and it looks quite nice. There is still work in adding flash to browsers and such, but a good experience if one wants to get back to basics, so to speak.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by KBD47 » Sun May 27, 2018 4:26 pm

sdibaja wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:08 pm

I think that everything in the Debian Stable repos is OK and will Probably Not mess up your system... excepting multiple Desktops.

I am just loving my new MX17 with Mate desktop on top. Gazillions of nice gadgets, and a working remaster tool to boot.
But there are some preferences that conflict with the Xfce apps, power managers too. It is a bit of a struggle tearing out stuff to reach my goals... almost easier to start with pure Debian and add what you want.

SO, I multi boot. (running Debian now because I don't want to mess around)
MX is a great distro. I have it on 2 computers right now. One of my favorite installs is Debian 9 MATE. I used moko icons and a MATE green teal theme, looks nice. MATE in Debian Stretch works well. The only thing I've ever run into is the weather app going flaky on occasion. Otherwise rock solid.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sun May 27, 2018 4:54 pm

Sundowner wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:06 pm
Please take a little extra time after you complete this install to try to install printer drivers (HP is the best choice for any Linux OS).
I'll give it a try - but no promises. Actually, I've never connected a printer to ANY of my Linux machines. Since almost all current printer drivers come in Windows I leave my printers attached to Windows machines. Plus, I print hardcopy so rarely I can go for more than a year with empty print-cartridges.

A couple of alerts:

1) In the last few days I have run across two places in the new Plasma-5 settings where the DEFAULT (pre-checked) is to "send data to somebody". I'm an "opt-in" kind of guy and I really hate discovering that I've been furnishing data against my wishes or without my knowledge. I think one of the settings was in the Network section (either cookies or browser identification) and the other had to do with "supplying diagnostic information" - sorry I don't have the exact locations.

2) I find this very odd.... in my new installation of kubuntu-18.04 Plasma-5 I actually had to manually install the samba server in order to share items as I have been automatically doing with Mint-KDE for several years. The samba client was pre-installed and worked perfectly - but that's not quite enough !! I GOOGLED my problem with sharing files and that's how I learned this is "standard issue". The Instructions want you to install tasksel first then use that to install samba-server. I'll look into that a little deeper when I have the time.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:03 pm

Bad weather in the southern US has kept me away from my work for several days.

I finally did get the Debian-KDE iso downloaded and installed.
sdibaja wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 11:40 am
direct download: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unof ... onfree.iso
Thanks for that link (I went to their site but could not find the correct link and had to come back here to pick this one up).

I have been experimenting with Debian-KDE and have decided it is also NOT a candidate. Certain (little) things just annoy me. For instance, it does NOT honor the setting to change "single-click-launch" to "double-click-lanuch". That has worked in every KDE environment I have tried up to this one. Another issue is the lack of Linux commands. I'm a long way from a command-line freak, but I have learned to use commands like "ifconfig" and "inxi" and they are missing in Debian-KDE. Finally, the problems with the default "sudoers" file, the difficulty updating it, and so forth caused me to have to "SU to root" (or login as root). That works but it's a PITA after working with some of the more "developed" distro's. So, rather than spend more time trying to figure out how to live with Debian-KDE I'm simply removing it and moving on.

I have now decided that Kubuntu will be my next Linux environment. I have already installed one PERMANENT Mint replacement... i replaced Mint with Kubuntu on my Lenovo dual-booter (Win-7). This is the machine I take on service-calls. I am also moving forward with migrating away from Mint on my main desktop but that will take a bit longer to complete.
Sundowner wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 3:06 pm
Please take a little extra time after you complete this install to try to install printer drivers...
Report back if you will please.
I'm very sorry to not be able to complete this test-and-evaluation for you. I've had too many problems with Debian already and I will not be using it in the future. That leaves me needing to move on instead of working more with a product I will not be using. Again, my apologies.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by KBD47 » Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:19 pm

Re:KDE-Debian
inxi works fine in Debian, just tried it. I'm pretty happy with my Debian KDE install, but I'm used to Debian and don't mind tweaking some things. Kubuntu is probably going to be a top KDE choice for many people used to Mint. It will feel much more usable out of the box than Debian.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Sundowner » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:07 pm

Sundowner wrote: ⤴Sun May 27, 2018 3:06 pm
Please take a little extra time after you complete this install to try to install printer drivers...
Report back if you will please.[/quote]
tovian wrote: I'm very sorry to not be able to complete this test-and-evaluation for you. I've had too many problems with Debian already and I will not be using it in the future. That leaves me needing to move on instead of working more with a product I will not be using. Again, my apologies.
That's okay. Was only trying to validate my own memory of having problems installing printer drivers in Debian. Always easy in Kubuntu. Thanks

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by famewolf » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:05 am

I've been running KDE Neon for about the last month on a couple of machines after reading about mint dropping kde. In all honestly I haven't really had anything I miss. The kde5 functionality seems to perform just fine. I cloned an image once I got a base system I liked and have used that to setup some laptop's and have available for a "quick setup". I'm slowly transitioning over the stuff I need from my "main desktop" and at some point will switch over from mint.

Kde Neon can swear left and right they are not a distro and it may even be true from a technical standpoint but for all a general users purposes it fits the bill. Support will be in the general ubuntu forums or the kde forums although there are a few neon specific ones (not high activity yet) but I've had no issues to really need support for.

I can tell you they KNOW how to setup KDE...it does come with a minimal amount of apps installed but that allows you to install what you need. Write down the names of your fav apps or better yet use aptik and aptik-gtk to backup your package lists...you can then use those in a "restore" and select them from a list where it shows you all the packages in the backup that are not currently installed. Backup your whole home dir so all your fav settings stay the same. If you use files outside your home dir like I had a credentials.txt file for my samba mounts stored in /etc..I moved it to /home/famewolf/.credentials.txt. If other specific folders in /etc you want to keep the settings then add those folders to the aptik backup.

I recently experimented with squid-deb-proxy since I have multiple computers in the same house..basically you put squid-deb-proxy on one pc (along with squid-deb-proxy-client) and put squid-deb-proxy-client on all your other machines...no configuration needed...it uses avahi to auto find the server and will use normal route when a server is unavailable. I found this very useful so when I did updates and installs on one pc (realizing I needed to install preload and kcalc....setting the swappiness to 10 in /etc/sysctl.d/99-sysctl.conf (which I now backup in aptik) etc). The installs on other pc's went blazing fast and used less data. This allows you to auto clean the cache on local pc's more often. I stored the /var/cache/squid-deb-proxy cache onto a network share and symbolically linked it....so if my server goes down I just install squid-deb-proxy on any other pc in house and point it to the SAME cache on my network drive...back in business.

Anyway, bottom line...download the kde-neon live dvd or usb (you can use a great program called etcher to write to the usb or multibootusb if you want multiple iso's on one usb with a menu) and try it out...see what you think and post about it here! I'll miss mint but I'm unwilling to change the desktop environment I'M comfortable with and it's all the same ubuntu underneath. Oh a basic kde neon desktop ends up using around 700mb so it's really fast and you don't have 10000 things running in startup that you have no idea what they are. I'd never heard of this distro till someone mentioned it in a reddit announcement of KDE being dropped. It lets you put wallpaper on your login screen and lock screen (which did NOT work on my current mint kde) so you can make it look as good as you want.

Finally the devs @ kde neon ARE going to provide an upgrade path from 16.10 to 18.xx...it's currently in beta as they test the installer..this was important to me because I didn't want to have to re-do everything AGAIN. My older 32 bit machines which I still use occasionally (laptops) have bodhi linux on it which will run in as little as 512mb (a little less actually but the INSTALLER needs 512mb..I actually installed it on one laptop then ran it on a 2nd one that only have 256mb at one point testing). It has a definate "kde like" feel to it. These are for my laptops that only have 2gb memory.

I'm still looking on the best method to backup a machine across the network to my network drive where I can restore later..preferably with snapshots...have not found it yet)

As to the opensuse discussion...I used them for over 10 years and finally just got frustrated that certain software was almost never available and couldn't "simply" be compiled. Specifically gscan2pdf which is something I use alot to scan documents to store on a network drive. Seems like every other upgrade the app would not be available again..even then it was usually a "user's version" someone had compiled and not something in the main repo...why NOT? Dependencies ended up being more of an issue on opensuse and they had nothing like squid-deb-proxy or apt-cacher-ng available.

Ok I'm done. ;) (stick a fork in me)

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by famewolf » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:30 am

tovian wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:28 pm
sdibaja wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:09 pm
Didn't you install it?
No, I'm not going to install it if the live session does not work properly. Even if it works correctly when installed that does not help when I need to boot a client machine to a Linux live session to fix Windows problems, or manipulate corrupted files, or simply copy user data.

I do not have the patience to use several different distro's at the same time. Whichever one I go with will have to be my ONLY Linux distro whether it's installed or running live.
Kubuntu is probably going to have the most detection and setup for weird hardware but you should really consider running some of these distro's in something like virtualbox and seeing them when you can update them. There are various apps that even allow you to re-write your customized distro BACK to a dvd or usb....that would be the way I would go for a customer live iso so I could make sure the software needed was pre-installed.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Qudale » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:43 am

sdibaja wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:59 am
@banjo you said "I put Debian KDE on the computer, and I could not figure out how to get the WiFi to connect to finish the installation."
were you using the non-free ISO? It includes the proprietary drivers and installs what you need when it detects your hardware. Here is a link to the non-free ISO direct downloads and torrents: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/bastacascd-including-firmware/9.3.0-live+nonfree/
That was a major hurdle I had to get over as I don't have access to direct connect on many of the installs that I do.

45/5000
Ta zhe problema, ne mogu soyedinit'sya s vayfayem
The same problem, I can not connect with the WiFI

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Retic1959 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:56 am

I've been dual booting LM18.3 KDE along with Manjaro KDE and W10 for at least the last 18 months . LM KDE was my go to installation until LM made the announcement about KDE . I've migrated everything over to Manjaro now and I'm considering whether or not to install another version of LM as a backup to Manjaro or another distro altogether . Manjaro continues to impress me , it's been rock solid for me , more so than Mint has lately . With Timeshift there's not a lot to worry about as far as running a rolling release and I've gotten to like the idea of not having to reinstall . Don't know why Manjaro hasn't been mentioned more often on this thread , It's taken Mint's #1 place on Distrowatch as far as hits go . It's polished , and smooth , definitely worth consideration as a replacement for those wanting to stick with KDE .

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:57 pm

Retic1959 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:56 am
Don't know why Manjaro hasn't been mentioned more often on this thread , It's taken Mint's #1 place on Distrowatch as far as hits go . It's polished , and smooth , definitely worth consideration as a replacement for those wanting to stick with KDE.
Almost sounds like it might have been a good replacement for Mint-KDE even before Mint decided to drop KDE. My selection of Kubuntu is not fixed in concrete so I'll try to download Manjaro tonight and give it a spin.

For all those folks who are planning to install Mint-19 xfce then load KDE on top (which I was planning to do at least as a test)...
I've been thinking a lot about this lately. There is one question that keeps coming up that I cannot answer:
If Mint and KDE are going to be so compatible that it will be fairly easy to install KDE on top of xfce then why doesn't Mint continue to offer a KDE-embedded distro/iso? A lot of the support for that product is done here in the forums, and it would only seem to enhance Mint's stature and reputation if they are able to offer more iso's. So if it really doesn't take much resource to create a Mint-KDE environment then I'm stumped as to why Mint would drop this offering. I have to wonder if there's more to it than just not having the resources to support the offering. Not having all the information I would need to resolve this dilemma leaves me troubled, and even less likely to try - on my own - to create an environment that the Mint owners, devs, sponsors, etc. have decided they will not or can not do any longer. I'm also rather sad that I have to move on from the acquaintances I've made in the forum(s) here, and that things I have learned about Linux - that are Mint-specific - will now go down the drain.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by TeaSwigger » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:40 am

tovian wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:57 pm
If Mint and KDE are going to be so compatible that it will be fairly easy to install KDE on top of xfce then why doesn't Mint continue to offer a KDE-embedded distro/iso?
It is my impression, perhaps mistaken, that there's nothing wrong with taking Mint xfce and replacing xfce with KDE from the repos, it's just too close to Kubuntu to offer 'rebranded' as a Mint distro, whereas customizing, or Mintifying if you will, KDE as the devs would really like to would take resources they believe would be better concentrated on the other offerings. If I ever do get a 'burr in my saddle' to go full-on KDE again and there are some folks here doing their own Mint-based KDE schemes, I'll probably join in.

Manjaro is a fine distro indeed in my opinion. When it comes to chosing a primary distro, however, the respective communities are the decisive factor for me. Happily, as it happens, I'd still chose a Mint option for primary use; even as an old time KDE user, after some time adjusting, I've really become quite satisfied with Mint xfce w/a few KDE apps added in.

Regarding the earlier conversation on dual-pane file managers, I think I forgot to add that I found Double Commander ('portable' gtk2 version, being as this was on xfce) closest to Krusader once a bunch of options were customized; the one issue/bug I found was in sync-ing folders, it failed to delete directories. I'll give it another try once in Mint 19.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Retic1959 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:34 am

tovian wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:57 pm
Retic1959 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:56 am
Don't know why Manjaro hasn't been mentioned more often on this thread , It's taken Mint's #1 place on Distrowatch as far as hits go . It's polished , and smooth , definitely worth consideration as a replacement for those wanting to stick with KDE.
Almost sounds like it might have been a good replacement for Mint-KDE even before Mint decided to drop KDE. My selection of Kubuntu is not fixed in concrete so I'll try to download Manjaro tonight and give it a spin.

For all those folks who are planning to install Mint-19 xfce then load KDE on top (which I was planning to do at least as a test)...
I've been thinking a lot about this lately. There is one question that keeps coming up that I cannot answer:
If Mint and KDE are going to be so compatible that it will be fairly easy to install KDE on top of xfce then why doesn't Mint continue to offer a KDE-embedded distro/iso? A lot of the support for that product is done here in the forums, and it would only seem to enhance Mint's stature and reputation if they are able to offer more iso's. So if it really doesn't take much resource to create a Mint-KDE environment then I'm stumped as to why Mint would drop this offering. I have to wonder if there's more to it than just not having the resources to support the offering. Not having all the information I would need to resolve this dilemma leaves me troubled, and even less likely to try - on my own - to create an environment that the Mint owners, devs, sponsors, etc. have decided they will not or can not do any longer. I'm also rather sad that I have to move on from the acquaintances I've made in the forum(s) here, and that things I have learned about Linux - that are Mint-specific - will now go down the drain.
It's a different world moving from Debian/Ubuntu based to Arch based . No ppa's , everything is in the repo's or the AUR , Arch User Repository . I don't miss the ppa's at all , Manjaro's hardware detection is a bit better than Mint's IMO . But KDE is still KDE regardless and Manjaro does a great job with it . Let me know what you think .

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Retic1959 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:39 am

TeaSwigger wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:40 am
tovian wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:57 pm
If Mint and KDE are going to be so compatible that it will be fairly easy to install KDE on top of xfce then why doesn't Mint continue to offer a KDE-embedded distro/iso?
It is my impression, perhaps mistaken, that there's nothing wrong with taking Mint xfce and replacing xfce with KDE from the repos, it's just too close to Kubuntu to offer 'rebranded' as a Mint distro, whereas customizing, or Mintifying if you will, KDE as the devs would really like to would take resources they believe would be better concentrated on the other offerings. If I ever do get a 'burr in my saddle' to go full-on KDE again and there are some folks here doing their own Mint-based KDE schemes, I'll probably join in.

Manjaro is a fine distro indeed in my opinion. When it comes to chosing a primary distro, however, the respective communities are the decisive factor for me. Happily, as it happens, I'd still chose a Mint option for primary use; even as an old time KDE user, after some time adjusting, I've really become quite satisfied with Mint xfce w/a few KDE apps added in.

Regarding the earlier conversation on dual-pane file managers, I think I forgot to add that I found Double Commander ('portable' gtk2 version, being as this was on xfce) closest to Krusader once a bunch of options were customized; the one issue/bug I found was in sync-ing folders, it failed to delete directories. I'll give it another try once in Mint 19.
About the only difference I see between Mint and Manjaro's Communities is the Dev's and Maintainers show far more of a presence on Manjaro's Forum than their counterparts at Mint . User wise there's little difference , both have good people on the boards , some are KDE refugees from here of course .

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by tovian » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:12 pm

I downloaded the Manjaro-KDE iso. I ran it a couple of times as a live session.
IT WAS FASTER ON MY MACHINE THAN ANY OTHER LIVE SESSION I HAVE TRIED !!
So I installed it.
It is NOTICEABLY FASTER than any of the other distro's I have ever used !! I am impressed. Also, I'm just having a lot of fun with it. Yes, it is a bit different than the Debian-based distro's, but it's still mostly intuitive (if you can run Synaptic then you can run Octopi). PLUS, the DE is KDE_Plasma and there are only a few minor differences in the Manjaro implementation.

I would NOT predict that Manjaro will run faster on everyone's computer, but it is definitely a treat on my testbed. Once I get all the standard packages updated I hope it won't slow down.

The Honeymoon isn't over yet - I always expect to find a few things that I don't care for. But, as of right now, I'm well on the way to having a new MAIN LINUX and would probably use Kubuntu as a backup/file-server.
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Jim Shaffer » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:21 pm

I benchmarked Manjaro vs. Mint some time ago using the Futuremark Peacekeeper browser benchmark, and yes Manjaro was significantly faster. I don't know what they're doing, but they're doing something right. (Core i5 desktop here, but Manjaro also blows away other distros on my Atom netbook, although I've not attempted to run KDE on that...)

I can offer up a few negative comments on Manjaro however. First, I've had problems whereas if I let it go too long without updating, the update won't work in the graphical updater and I have to use the terminal to approve actions and/or do a multi-step upgrade. No big deal except that it doesn't always TELL you that that's what you have to do, so I can't call it a newbie-friendly distro no matter how good the GUI experience is (and I do have to say, it's second only to Mint in things working right out of the box!)

Second, if you're dual-booting Manjaro and a non-Arch-based distro, you're going to be annoyed every time you upgrade the kernel in your non-Arch-based distro, because its grub-updater won't know how to handle Manjaro's GRUB-based loading of the CPU firmware updates and will generate a GRUB installation that will boot the other distro but will crash when booting Manjaro. You'll have to manually edit the GRUB configuration. Certainly not user-friendly there!

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Sir Charles » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:28 pm

Jim Shaffer wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:21 pm
--snip--

Second, if you're dual-booting Manjaro and a non-Arch-based distro, you're going to be annoyed every time you upgrade the kernel in your non-Arch-based distro, because its grub-updater won't know how to handle Manjaro's GRUB-based loading of the CPU firmware updates and will generate a GRUB installation that will boot the other distro but will crash when booting Manjaro. You'll have to manually edit the GRUB configuration. Certainly not user-friendly there!
I have had the same issue. Now, I just let Manjaro in control of the Grub. All the other OS:es I've got installed on the same disk (Windows and a couple of other Linux based OS:es) boot as they should.
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Jim Shaffer » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:47 pm

Marziano wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:28 pm
I have had the same issue. Now, I just let Manjaro in control of the Grub. All the other OS:es I've got installed on the same disk (Windows and a couple of other Linux based OS:es) boot as they should.
Not sure what you mean by "let Manjaro in control of the Grub". If you upgrade the kernel in your other distro, say Mint, doesn't it automatically trigger a grub-update from within THAT distro, resulting in a grub entry for Manjaro that only loads the microcode and not the initial image? Or are you upgrading the kernel manually somehow then rebooting into Manjaro and doing the grub-update from there?

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Sir Charles » Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:57 pm

Jim Shaffer wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:47 pm
Or are you upgrading the kernel manually somehow then rebooting into Manjaro and doing the grub-update from there?
That's it! I have installed Mint without bootloader. After each time the kernel gets updated in Mint, I will boot into Manjaro and update the Grub from there which will capture the new kernel.
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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