Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

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famewolf
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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by famewolf » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:58 am

I think they are referring to the "common belief" that ubuntu users are "the windows users who came to linux" or "the ones who can't handle a real distro" etc. Ubuntu also is the most popular and most widely supported via 3rd parties (ie almost everyone provides a .deb package if they provide a linux version at all).


I actually came to ubuntu variants (all of the following: Mint, LXLE, Bodhi, ) from opensuse after being on it for 10+ years (before that all sorts of early distro's some which still exist(redhat) and some that don't (Yellow dog linux anyone?. oracles previous linux distro...) strictly because I got tired of gscan2pdf being unavailable every other distro version. Typically it was a user provided copy via their equivalent to ppa's and the dependencies were not always setup correctly or just flat out could not be FOUND.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Retic1959 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:19 am

BG405 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:01 am
I've been giving Manjaro a spin on my Acer D255E since I installed it late Friday night. Set up with a separate /DATA partition, containing a (fairly) recent backup of the LM17.3 KDE /home partition, brought it up to date last night. Quite impressed with it so far although there's a few teething problems to deal with.

Installed some packages I need, using pacman and yaourt including Waterfox which when synced incorporated all my add-ons. Waterfox shows Firefox in the titlebar - it does this on the other Acer with LM18.3 KDE, too - although with the Waterfox icon on both systems. It also didn't import the saved sessions, same as with the latter; this worked flawlessly on my Linux Mint 17.3 Cinnamon installation on the Dell Inspiron 1525. It does work with all the add-ons from FFv<57 and brings up the Waterfox homepage by default, suggesting it is actually indeed Waterfox, along with accidental FF browser launches missing the settings providing a fairly positive indication. However, having a newly-installed browser mis-identifying itself is unsettling. Not sure setting default browser will correct this if Waterfox "thinks" it is Firefox incl. settings. Will this just launch Firefox instead? Shouldn't be an issue though as profile directories are separate now?

VirtualBox needs a bit more work to get it going,

Overall it seems to work well, quite fast & responsive. Seems much quicker to respond than LM17.3 KDE 32-bit & using a significantly smaller memory footprint despite being 64-bit. The Manjaro Forums seem friendly and helpful too, even the thread linked above. It is likely my replacement OS for this computer .. plus no more reinstalls due to it being a rolling release, which suits me in this case.

Conclusion:
Manjaro + KDE, for me, looks like the best solution for my portable workhorse. It'll always be up-to-date without any significant downtime.

Posted from Manjaro installation.
I can't help you with the Waterfox situation but as far as Virtualbox no problem . You need to install the host and guest modules for the Kernel you're running seperately . Go in to Octopi and search for virtualbox and scroll through the results and you'll see them listed , install them , reboot and Manjaro will add the modules to the kernel and virtualbox will be up and running . Btw I would recommend that you install a different kernel or two after that . I usually keep the recommended Lts as well as the latest installed in case of regressions it's good to have a fallback . I find it's easier to fallback in Manjaro than Mint , I have to switch from Nvidia drivers to open source drivers in Mint before I can boot in to an older kernel . Not so in Manjaro .
Last edited by Retic1959 on Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Retic1959 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:26 am

famewolf wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:58 am
I think they are referring to the "common belief" that ubuntu users are "the windows users who came to linux" or "the ones who can't handle a real distro" etc. Ubuntu also is the most popular and most widely supported via 3rd parties (ie almost everyone provides a .deb package if they provide a linux version at all).


I actually came to ubuntu variants (all of the following: Mint, LXLE, Bodhi, ) from opensuse after being on it for 10+ years (before that all sorts of early distro's some which still exist(redhat) and some that don't (Yellow dog linux anyone?. oracles previous linux distro...) strictly because I got tired of gscan2pdf being unavailable every other distro version. Typically it was a user provided copy via their equivalent to ppa's and the dependencies were not always setup correctly or just flat out could not be FOUND.
Thanks for the info . I haven't seen much of that on Manjaro's forum , there are a fair number of Mint users there as well . I guess I fit that stereotype somewhat with Mint being my first linux distro . Long time computer user though , started with a Commodore Vic-20 and basic and went through every version of Dos and Windoze until the atrocity that is Windoze 10 pushed me over the edge and in to linux .

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by BG405 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:22 pm

Retic1959 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:19 am
as far as Virtualbox no problem . You need to install the host and guest modules for the Kernel you're running seperately . Go in to Octopi and search for virtualbox and scroll through the results and you'll see them listed , install them , reboot and Manjaro will add the modules to the kernel and virtualbox will be up and running
Thanks for that advice. I did get VirtualBox running although I'd done the installation using Pacman (CLI). Will look at the options in Octopi.

The issue is that the kernel I'm running (4.14 LTS) is complaining that KVM is disabled therefore KVM itself does not work and VirtualBox 5.2.x will not create (or run existing) 64-bit VMs. The CPU supports KVM and my Mint 17.3 KDE 32-Bit installation (also with latest available, probably same version, of VB) DOES allow creation and running of 64-Bit VMs. This is a MAJOR hurdle & hopefully a different kernel (4.4.x?) will solve this. I do not have access to advanced BIOS settings on this Acer D255E. But it MUST be enabled in BIOS for it to work in Mint? Maybe need to try Mint 18.3 KDE 64-Bit & see if that works?

I only got SSH working properly by copying a manually-edited configuration file from one of my Mint systems; still haven't gotten shared directories to show up on the network via SAMBA. TBC .. :wink:
Dell Inspiron 1525 - LM17.3 CE 64-------------------Acer D255E 2GB - Manjaro KDE, LM17.3 KDE 32
Toshiba NB305 - LM17.3 Xfce 32---------------------K7S5A AMD 1.2GHz - LM17.3 Xfce 32 & WinXP-Pro
Acer Aspire E11 ES1-111M - LM18.2 KDE 64 ----Dell PII 350 64MB - Puppy 4.3 & Win98-SE

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Retic1959 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:03 pm

BG405 wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:22 pm
Retic1959 wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:19 am
as far as Virtualbox no problem . You need to install the host and guest modules for the Kernel you're running seperately . Go in to Octopi and search for virtualbox and scroll through the results and you'll see them listed , install them , reboot and Manjaro will add the modules to the kernel and virtualbox will be up and running
Thanks for that advice. I did get VirtualBox running although I'd done the installation using Pacman (CLI). Will look at the options in Octopi.

The issue is that the kernel I'm running (4.14 LTS) is complaining that KVM is disabled therefore KVM itself does not work and VirtualBox 5.2.x will not create (or run existing) 64-bit VMs. The CPU supports KVM and my Mint 17.3 KDE 32-Bit installation (also with latest available, probably same version, of VB) DOES allow creation and running of 64-Bit VMs. This is a MAJOR hurdle & hopefully a different kernel (4.4.x?) will solve this. I do not have access to advanced BIOS settings on this Acer D255E. But it MUST be enabled in BIOS for it to work in Mint? Maybe need to try Mint 18.3 KDE 64-Bit & see if that works?

I only got SSH working properly by copying a manually-edited configuration file from one of my Mint systems; still haven't gotten shared directories to show up on the network via SAMBA. TBC .. :wink:
I haven't tried with 4.14 , it's working flawlessly with 4.17 right now , I'll fallback to 4.14 later and add the modules for it and see what happens . You might want to remove it and reinstall through Octopi and see if that works . Ok , I fellback to 4.14 , installed the host and guest modules for that kernel rebooted and Houston , we have a problem . Don't know if the issue is with the kernel or the packages I installed for that kernel . Rebooted back to 4.17 and all is well again . Hopefully going to 4.17 and adding the modules for it will clear up your problem , might help with Samba as well .

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Fixer1234 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:54 am

I have a question, but I'll start with some thoughts.

A number of the better KDE distros have been suggested as alternatives. Some observations I didn't see mentioned:

Debian Stable: The best distro I ever used was an experiment by a maintainer called Kwheezy. It was KDE on Debian Stable, fully loaded with non-free drivers and all of the good applications. It was a work of art; everything well integrated and tuned, and everything worked perfectly out of the box, and rock solid. It was an absolute joy to use. Then Wheezy hit end of life and the maintainer moved on to other things. All of the hard work had been done, so it was suitable for a newbie, without the rough edges of starting with the Debian distro.

The one drawback: the other side of the coin for a stable distro. Most of what was in the repository was out-of-date, some ancient. Near the end, I was defeating the purpose of a stable distro by installing current packages directly, myself. If you are going to use Debian and don't want something based on the Stable release, just use something based on Ubuntu. At least that has a big organization behind it to do the testing missing from the other Debian releases.

PCLinuxOS: Stable and it worked. It operates memory-resident, so it is fast. Problems: It has a limited implementation of KDE, with much of what makes Plasma good disabled. It keeps things simple, stable, and light, but you miss a lot of the Plasma experience. It lacks polish in the UI, more like what you would expect in a featherweight DE. The main menu is kind of ugly. The procedure for software updates is a bit obtuse. It's a rolling release with a limited window. That's fine if it's your regular distro, but not if you occasionally dabble. If you let it go too long without updating, it loses the ability to update.

Manjaro: Pretty polished and stable. My one issue: If the applications you want are not in the repository, it isn't for newbies. There are some workarounds for some applications that aren't guaranteed to be stable. But it you want to do it right, you're basically working with Arch Linux, which means compiling what you want.

openSUSE: I tried Gecko Linux, which is openSUSE wrapped in a little polish for some of the rough edges. I had a positive experience. It's polished and stable. My one issue: I can't get Gecko or openSUSE to run on my plain vanilla main computer, and there's no apparent reason for the problem. I think it's the only distro out of many dozens I've tried that wouldn't run on it.

Fedora: A few people have mentioned Fedora. If you want a distro you can load and not need to replace for awhile, Fedora isn't the right choice. It has a very short life cycle, and no upgrade to the next version. When the next version comes out, you reinstall.

KDE Neon: The main risk with Neon stems from the cutting-edge, continuous upgrades. It increases the risk that the non-Neon stuff you install (which is almost everything but the kernel and the DE, which may come from Ubuntu repositories or elsewhere, may run into compatibility or dependency problems. A more experienced Linux user will be better equipped to deal with any such problems. If you're a newbie, Kubuntu would be a safer bet.

Now for my question. Mint adds a number of custom apps to the Ubuntu base that are very worthwhile. For example, MintUpdate adds valuable information to inform update choices (although I suspect the information requires maintainer input, so it probably would not work with anything else). MintBackup is very useful (I suspect it might require customization to work with anything but Mint). Is there a way to install any of the Mint custom apps on Kubuntu?

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by rui no onna » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:12 am

Fixer1234 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:54 am
KDE Neon: The main risk with Neon stems from the cutting-edge, continuous upgrades. It increases the risk that the non-Neon stuff you install (which is almost everything but the kernel and the DE, which may come from Ubuntu repositories or elsewhere, may run into compatibility or dependency problems. A more experienced Linux user will be better equipped to deal with any such problems. If you're a newbie, Kubuntu would be a safer bet.
I actually do wonder about this. From what I can tell, the only cutting edge part with Neon is the DE while the base is Ubuntu LTS. Iirc, current release is still using 16.04 Xenial. Given this, how likely is it that frequent DE updates would break compatibility with other software? Genuinely asking, I'm working off all fresh installs so I haven't needed to update the DE yet.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Fixer1234 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:29 am

rui no onna wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:12 am
Fixer1234 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:54 am
KDE Neon: The main risk with Neon stems from the cutting-edge, continuous upgrades. It increases the risk that the non-Neon stuff you install (which is almost everything but the kernel and the DE, which may come from Ubuntu repositories or elsewhere, may run into compatibility or dependency problems. A more experienced Linux user will be better equipped to deal with any such problems. If you're a newbie, Kubuntu would be a safer bet.
I actually do wonder about this. From what I can tell, the only cutting edge part with Neon is the DE while the base is Ubuntu LTS. Iirc, current release is still using 16.04 Xenial. Given this, how likely is it that frequent DE updates would break compatibility with other software? Genuinely asking, I'm working off all fresh installs so I haven't needed to update the DE yet.
I briefly looked at it and don't have any real experience. I'm going off what I've read. My assumption is that the most likely issues would relate to stuff like windowing and screen rendering, since Plasma is pretty integrated with that. And perhaps versions of libraries that other software might have in common with KDE stuff. For example a shared library could get updated for KDE and the application might need an older version. Then there's quirky stuff. Like I just solved a weird problem where one of the icon themes bundled with KDE was updated and became incompatible with LibreOffice. I think it's a Murphy's Law thing; there's more likelihood of the kinds of things that cause problems.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by sdibaja » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:30 am

SolydXK?
I am not a kde fan, so I can't judge. Anyone giving it a spin?
Installer is ok, non invasive to install alongside what you are using now.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Retic1959 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:35 am

Fixer1234 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:54 am
I have a question, but I'll start with some thoughts.

A number of the better KDE distros have been suggested as alternatives. Some observations I didn't see mentioned:

Debian Stable: The best distro I ever used was an experiment by a maintainer called Kwheezy. It was KDE on Debian Stable, fully loaded with non-free drivers and all of the good applications. It was a work of art; everything well integrated and tuned, and everything worked perfectly out of the box, and rock solid. It was an absolute joy to use. Then Wheezy hit end of life and the maintainer moved on to other things. All of the hard work had been done, so it was suitable for a newbie, without the rough edges of starting with the Debian distro.

The one drawback: the other side of the coin for a stable distro. Most of what was in the repository was out-of-date, some ancient. Near the end, I was defeating the purpose of a stable distro by installing current packages directly, myself. If you are going to use Debian and don't want something based on the Stable release, just use something based on Ubuntu. At least that has a big organization behind it to do the testing missing from the other Debian releases.

PCLinuxOS: Stable and it worked. It operates memory-resident, so it is fast. Problems: It has a limited implementation of KDE, with much of what makes Plasma good disabled. It keeps things simple, stable, and light, but you miss a lot of the Plasma experience. It lacks polish in the UI, more like what you would expect in a featherweight DE. The main menu is kind of ugly. The procedure for software updates is a bit obtuse. It's a rolling release with a limited window. That's fine if it's your regular distro, but not if you occasionally dabble. If you let it go too long without updating, it loses the ability to update.

Manjaro: Pretty polished and stable. My one issue: If the applications you want are not in the repository, it isn't for newbies. There are some workarounds for some applications that aren't guaranteed to be stable. But it you want to do it right, you're basically working with Arch Linux, which means compiling what you want.

openSUSE: I tried Gecko Linux, which is openSUSE wrapped in a little polish for some of the rough edges. I had a positive experience. It's polished and stable. My one issue: I can't get Gecko or openSUSE to run on my plain vanilla main computer, and there's no apparent reason for the problem. I think it's the only distro out of many dozens I've tried that wouldn't run on it.

Fedora: A few people have mentioned Fedora. If you want a distro you can load and not need to replace for awhile, Fedora isn't the right choice. It has a very short life cycle, and no upgrade to the next version. When the next version comes out, you reinstall.

KDE Neon: The main risk with Neon stems from the cutting-edge, continuous upgrades. It increases the risk that the non-Neon stuff you install (which is almost everything but the kernel and the DE, which may come from Ubuntu repositories or elsewhere, may run into compatibility or dependency problems. A more experienced Linux user will be better equipped to deal with any such problems. If you're a newbie, Kubuntu would be a safer bet.

Now for my question. Mint adds a number of custom apps to the Ubuntu base that are very worthwhile. For example, MintUpdate adds valuable information to inform update choices (although I suspect the information requires maintainer input, so it probably would not work with anything else). MintBackup is very useful (I suspect it might require customization to work with anything but Mint). Is there a way to install any of the Mint custom apps on Kubuntu?
Seems like this might be the best way of getting what you want . Read the first post . viewtopic.php?p=1496974&sid=2620b6798d2 ... 6#p1496974

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by MtnDewManiac » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:13 am

Fixer1234 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:54 am
Is there a way to install any of the Mint custom apps on Kubuntu?
PPA?
https://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppa/mint_main

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by Fixer1234 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:35 pm

MtnDewManiac wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:13 am
Fixer1234 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:54 am
Is there a way to install any of the Mint custom apps on Kubuntu?
PPA?
https://www.ubuntuupdates.org/ppa/mint_main
Thanks, that's a great first step. Can I assume that the rest is trial and error to see what works? Assuming some of the apps need configuration, is there any documentation for that?

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by MtnDewManiac » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:01 am

Fixer1234 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:35 pm
Thanks, that's a great first step. Can I assume that the rest is trial and error to see what works? Assuming some of the apps need configuration, is there any documentation for that?
If that was directed to me, I have no idea. I found what I posted by spending 30 seconds performing a simple web search.

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Re: Preparing for Mint to drop the KDE distro

Post by o-l-d » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:01 pm

Since there is no mint-meta-kde package for Bionic/Mint 19 you are "on your own" trying to integrate Mint apps into the KDE environment. It might be possible to download .deb packages from the Mint repos and install them? I wish you the best of luck!

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