The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

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The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by rec9140 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:55 am

Please note: This is NOT an "Official" thread. I have no connection with development, enhancement, or any thing else related to KMint other than as a user, period. As the title says this is the OFFICIALLY UNOFFICIAL thread.

Here are my thoughts on what needs to be FIXED/REPLACED/ADDED/UPDATED/REMOVED for the next release of KMint 11 Kataya.

This is based on my testing and the posts in the KDE forum.

I am going to set some ground rules here in regards to those who wish to suggest other additions/fixes etc...

1) DVD is the size of the ISO. The recent poll sets it straight 89% can read a DVD. Its time to update if you don't have this. Nor is a slow interenet connection a reason to hold back use of a DVD sized ISO. There are plenty of resources available for purchase of a DVD in many places.

2) And to clarify #1, thats a FULL 4.7GB ISO.

3) WhINE - is not on the table. If you would like to see this.. please use another thread.

4) monoDisease and any program using or requiring it and the libraries a part of it are NOT on the table either. If you would like to see this.. please use another thread.

5) NON OEM video drivers are not in play here.

So on to the hit parade......

KMint 11 Kataya Wish List

0) REMOVE/REPLACE/FIX - plymouth - This needs to be fixed to work with OEM nVidia and the open source drivers for various cards where it currently FAILS MISERABLY! Either fix plymouth and its ugly blue screen of stupidity or REMOVE it and REPLACE with something that works, or let the text scroll by during boot up. If a certain other OS can do these splash screens reliably then there is NO REASON LINUX can not as well.
See: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/563878

And since it seems upstream is just not listening.... see the FIX here: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=69688

And for the record the following is NOT THE SOLUTION:

"“Black splash screens
In Linux Mint 11 the boot splash screen is now completely black. It doesn’t show a logo with green dots as it used to. This is by design. Once the system is installed the boot sequence is relatively fast. The black loading sequence doesn’t look out of place and it looks consistent across all computers, whatever driver you’re using.”" :shock:
:evil: :twisted:

Why is this NOT the solution? Theres tons of "bug reports" of a black screen...

I am just not going to even go any further than this. :twisted: . . . . The solution is the same for OEM users... not lets see some of that Minty Magic in developing a real solution to this mess from upstream.


1) REMOVE - pulseaudio - its a dud - not needed in KDE or any other DE for that matter, its pretty much despised universally outside canonicial.
See: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=69138


2) RESTORE -the ALSA OSS emulation to the kernel by compiling our own kernels, if canonicial doesn't restrore this for their kernels.
See: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... mments=all

3) UPDATE - USB creator to work with 8GB and larger devices to correct the "not a valid COM32 image" and auto start of the USB device

4) ADD - Exaile - see http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=69365

5) ADD - Clementine

6) ADD - gstreamer-alsa by default so programs like Exaile work with CD's

7) REPLACE - oo with Open[Libre]Office (I am not giving that name to the tyrant!) and ALL PIECES INCLUDING BASE!

8 ) RESTORE - HPLIP GUI - the base packages are there put the config/setup interface back.

9) FIX - the overwriting of kdmrc by mintUpdate after updates

10 ) FIX/REMOVE/REPLACE - networkmanager - This network assistant is just broken and useless for any one who needs static IP and especially for "system connections." Too much not supported, not implemented or just plain broken, its time for it to be replaced till it either matures or just dies off. See: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=68595

11) FIX - cups - CUPS does not and will not start in the Live DVD thus no printing in the Live DVD or on a USB version. This needs to be corrected so CUPS and printing can be tested in the Live DVD and for USB use when you walk up to a computer and boot up to a real OS.
See: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=66491 and
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=66391

here is the issue with LIVE/USB:

Code: Select all

[   85.039104] type=1400 audit(1303758194.942:2): apparmor="STATUS"
 operation="profile_load" name="/usr/lib/cups/backend/cups-pdf"
 pid=1859 comm="apparmor_parser"
 [   85.039331] type=1400 audit(1303758194.942:3): apparmor="STATUS"
 operation="profile_load" name="/usr/sbin/cupsd" pid=1859
 comm="apparmor_parser"
 [   87.667020] lp: driver loaded but no devices found
 [   88.486151] ppdev: user-space parallel port driver
 [   89.411089] type=1400 audit(1303758199.322:4): apparmor="DENIED"
 operation="open" parent=1 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd"
 name="/rofs/etc/ld.so.cache" pid=1913 comm="cupsd" requested_mask="r"
 denied_mask="r" fsuid=0 ouid=0
 [   89.677989] type=1400 audit(1303758199.582:5): apparmor="DENIED"
 operation="open" parent=1 profile="/usr/sbin/cupsd"
 name="/rofs/usr/lib/libcupsmime.so.1" pid=1913 comm="cupsd"
 requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=0 ouid=0
This is fixed for the LIVE/USB:

Code: Select all

mint@mintkde /etc/apparmor.d $ sudo ln -s /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.cupsd /etc/apparmor.d/disable/
mint@mintkde /etc/apparmor.d $ sudo apparmor_parser -R /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.cupsd 
mint@mintkde /etc/apparmor.d $ sudo service cups start
cups start/running, process 4324
mint@mintkde /etc/apparmor.d $ 

12) CREATE - KDebMint - A Debian based version in addition to the *bunutu based one would be a WELCOME addition.... BUT... theres a lot of work needed for this... Example... many of the various audio programs like darkice etc. will need to be RE-COMPILED in OUR OWN KDebMint repos as they are fubar'd with out MP3 support etc..

13) ADD - krdc and krfb to 64b KMint - they were missing from the ISO on Julia. Present on 32b.

14) CREATE - ROADMAP for the future of KMint and KDebMint that is public and viewable and where comments and discussion on it can occur.

15) INVOLVE - COMMUNITY - More involvement of the KMint community in testing, direction, and guidance of K[Deb]Mint. One developer and a few testers are overworked. Lets get more of those on this forum involved.

16) MORE - testing - I would like to see more testing before release to weed out things like the CUPS issue on the Live DVD, and the networkmanager period. I know there are some very impatient users, and many that do not understand that KMint is not released as soon as some other version might be. I have no problem with that. Its taken me 2 months basically to put this through its paces. I've got a couple final things to wrap for my issues which just maybe a Samba update today is going to fix.

17) MORE - UPDATES - Whats going on in the development of the release. The testing area on the community site is a good start, but more, much more can be done. See the *bunutus and the schedules and data on alphas and betas and RC's released.

As per mintnoob
18) ADD - Upgrade In place or Rolling Distro - The *buntus have an upgrade procedure in place to upgrade from each version... or a Rolling release...

19) REMOVE - GStreamer and REPLACE with XINE BACK END. XINE is the KDE backend, not gstreamer, and from the beta 1 of upstream, the gstreamer backend is NOT ready for prime time.. hmm seems to be a trend upstream... picking the WRONG HORSE in the race! :D

I welcome, encourage and look forward to DEBATE, and DISCUSSION but responsible DEBATE and DISCUSSION. Lively and passionate is great and fine. So leave your "PC" at the gate, and lets debate! :)

Please review the "ground/thread rules" for this thread. Some are going to be displeased with these, that is fine. I welcome and encourage YOU to create your own thread in defense of those options. I think the recent survey points the way on one issue, ISO size. And as for others your welcome to see the "benefit" in those areas, I do not. I do not use a certain DE just for the reason of its inclusion of certain items, throw in the other issues I have with that DE... well I guess I know why it uses a stinky foot for its logo. :mrgreen:
Last edited by rec9140 on Tue May 10, 2011 6:28 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by mintnoob » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:35 pm

Rolling.
Chakra Linux

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by rec9140 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:18 pm

mintnoob wrote:Rolling.
I agree... added.
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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by dante19992 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:19 pm

what is monoDisease?

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by vaxxipooh » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:52 pm

dante19992 wrote:what is monoDisease?
Maybe it is some sickness that only occour in your left speaker :lol:
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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by Andrew33 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:37 pm

@rec9140

I agree with all that you're saying with repair/fix/replace issues for the next version 11.04. I want to add that they (developers, canonical, etc.) need to make the next version compatible across the board with everything.....(please excuse my bringing in computers to this, but it has to be said), it needs to be compatible with all laptops with the use of touchpads...that's why they put them on there so that they can be used in every fashion, i.e. window resizing, moving windows, etc.. I also agree that there needs to be more testing to make sure that everything functions as it should in every aspect before release, instead of sending it out with bugs....network manager needs to be improved on or removed for something that works better for everyone. With respect to Nvidia and it's compatibility with KM...I agree there too....I have desktops that when you install the propriatary drivers...the LM logo on start up or reboot gets real ugly, big, and all I see are. the dots and no logo....so that has to be fixed. I personally would like for devs and the others who work on these new versions to listen to the rest of us...there needs to be respect across the board, we're all from different countries & backgrounds. There's no such thing as a stupid idea or suggestion. Also, this next version needs to be LTS and keep it KDE....stop merging this stuff with each other.

Andrew

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by rec9140 » Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:56 pm

andrew5859 wrote: it needs to be compatible with all laptops with the use of touchpads...that's why they put them on there so that they can be used in every fashion, i.e. window resizing, moving windows, etc..
I am not sure I am aware of issue with touchpads... outline what they are so I can add to the list... The only thing I've seen is that some bonehead decided to make the default in Debian to disable tapping for clicking on the touchpad when it has buttons... I am not sure what planet thats a good idea on ? ?

andrew5859 wrote: I also agree that there needs to be more testing to make sure that everything functions as it should in every aspect before release, instead of sending it out with bugs
Bugs are a fact of life in software... I think there was a clear case of "release fever" because some version is released quicker.
andrew5859 wrote:.I have desktops that when you install the propriatary drivers...the LM logo on start up or reboot gets real ugly, big, and all I see are. the dots and no logo....so that has to be fixed.
This can be fixed... I've done it .... see this thread: http://forum.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=109&t=69688

andrew5859 wrote: I personally would like for devs and the others who work on these new versions to listen to the rest of us...there needs to be respect across the board, we're all from different countries & backgrounds. There's no such thing as a stupid idea or suggestion.
Engagement... thats all I will say for now...... ENGAGEMENT.

andrew5859 wrote: Also, this next version needs to be LTS and keep it KDE....stop merging this stuff with each other.
I only live in the land of KDE... :mrgreen:

LTS--- Sure I am all for a Linux Terminal Server version... I would love to have that!

As for merging I am not sure I follow....please elaborate....
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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by dante19992 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:00 am

include all of the oxygen mouse themes not just the white ones as well as oxygen-gtk and onxygen-transparent

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by AlbertP » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:25 am

andrew5859 wrote:.I have desktops that when you install the propriatary drivers...the LM logo on start up or reboot gets real ugly, big, and all I see are. the dots and no logo....so that has to be fixed.
This is a strange bug in the proprietary drivers and/or the boot screen, it should be fixed by the NVidia/ATI and/or Plymouth developers.
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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by rec9140 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:45 am

AlbertP wrote:
andrew5859 wrote:.I have desktops that when you install the propriatary drivers...the LM logo on start up or reboot gets real ugly, big, and all I see are. the dots and no logo....so that has to be fixed.
This is a strange bug in the [OEM] drivers, Mint cannot change this, only provide a work-around.

THIS is NOT a bug in the OEM drivers.... its a method being foisted upon the OEM's that they CAN NOT SUPPORT.

Kernel Mode Setting moves things to the kernel that were not there before... it has its pluses and minuses... I am not going to go in to those... as thats a different discussion.

nVidia can NOT and WILL NOT support KMS doing so would put their drivers into the GPL... not going to happen. nVidia has stated its not going that way.. certain factions believe that if they continue to force this they can force co-operation from the OEM(s).

The bug is PLYMOUTH, period, full stop.

Plymouth should remove its head from sand and get with the program in 2011 and understand that not every one uses the community drivers. They are not up to par, and now that the OEM's are finally in the game, don't !$*!&$()*!&$! (* them off! They are providing drivers and support for LINUX! SUPPORT THEM... Don't run them off, some OEM(s) are finally starting to take the Linux world seriously... but this does nothing but tarnish and damage that newly and hard won progress.

Plymouth should be smart enough to determine in some manner that the OEM video drivers are in use, and then use the fb, that the fix I list uses, method to draw the logo, if the community drivers are in use use KMS etc... that is the PROPER WAY to do this.

There is a hidden agenda by some in this.. .and it needs to go.. its damaging Linux as whole.
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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by Andrew33 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:26 pm

By Touchpads, I mean or am talking about the Alps Dualpoint Touchpad, which a good majority of laptops use. In LM 9 I can take the cursor to the edge of the window, click & hold, thus resizing the window however big I need it....you can't or are not able to do this with 10.04 or higher....they seem to have left something out when putting the newer versions together, whether it Mint, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, or whatever.....I don't know if it's something in the kernel, or if it's something the devs have overlooked or purposely left out, thinking it wasn't neccessary.

With the desktop that I was talking about, it has an Nvidia GeForce FX5200 graphics card in it and when I've tried to install the propriatary drivers for it, that's when things get screwed up, not only with the Plymouth Logo at start up and reboot, but it affects everything else in the program.


By LTS, I mean Long Term Support like the current version of LM 9 I'm running....support till 2013.....and yes, I understand ENGAGEMENT, but engagement is only as good as anyone really listens or not....I'm not putting anyone down, it's just that very few devs really and truly listen to the requests of the users and or their concerns & issues.

I appreciate what you're doing here in this thread....keep up the good work....we need to get people involved.....cheers

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by rec9140 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:46 pm

andrew5859 wrote:By Touchpads, I mean or am talking about the Alps Dualpoint Touchpad, which a good majority of laptops use. In LM 9 I can take the cursor to the edge of the
Let me look at it.. I am not aware of the issue... mainly probably as I don't use my touchpad that way...and I guess I've never resized things that way on a laptop in decades... but...if theres an issue then it needs to be resolved....
andrew5859 wrote: With the desktop that I was talking about, it has an Nvidia GeForce FX5200 graphics card in it and when I've tried to install the propriatary drivers for it, that's when things get screwed up, not only with the Plymouth Logo at start up and reboot, but it affects everything else in the program.
Have you tried the XSWAT versions?
andrew5859 wrote:By LTS, I mean Long Term Support like the current version of LM 9 I'm running....support till 2013.....
Thats the problem... LTS doesn't mean that in IT, when we say that its Linux Terminal Server, as in LTSP or Linux Terminal Server Project.... I know theres lots of people using in that other way...its one of those "I don't think that means what you think it does" moments. We run into this constantly in my agency when we cross IT with another field and the acronyms can well... lets just say it could be interesting... :mrgreen:
andrew5859 wrote:and yes, I understand ENGAGEMENT, but engagement is only as good as anyone really listens or not....I'm not putting anyone down, it's just that very few devs really and truly listen to the requests of the users and or their concerns & issues.
Like I said theres a lot of stuff in re this I am not ready to go into . . .
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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by Andrew33 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:19 pm

Hadn't really heard of it till just a fews weeks ago...XSWAT I mean. Of late, I've been staying at another location which is about an hour away...75mi to be exact...that's where the desktop is....I'll look into that driver when I'm out there next. It's really funy, the Alps PS/2 Alps Dualpoint Touchpad, reacts the same way with any ubuntu based OS 10.04 and up, but anything 9.04 and under, it does fine.

Yeah, I understand about those IT terminologies....I'm an IT Tech myself, A+ cert. was schooled in Network+, MCDST, MCP, CCENT.....but the economy is such that I had to focus on getting back into work. The LTS label has been used since early LM 5 Elyssa...I'm sure you knew that though...I appreciate you looking into the Alps Touchpad issue...I've been looking myself, but haven't turned anything up yet.

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by AlbertP » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:16 am

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by rec9140 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:45 am

AlbertP wrote:Would it be possible to add Nouveau 3D support? It is working fine on most cards, though some slower than the proprietary driver. Fedora includes it by default from .
In this thread noveau is persona non grata. I support and only use the OEM drivers. I would suggest that in another thread.
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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by proxima_centauri » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:43 pm

AlbertP wrote:Ok sorry. @ Mods: feel free to remove my message.
This is a public forum, you're entitled to post within the scope of the forum rules.
That being said, you're free to delete your own posts, simply edit your post and check the Delete Post box and Submit.

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by Boo » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:07 am

All interesting information.
And some will be added.
Keep it up.

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by Andrew33 » Tue May 03, 2011 12:10 pm

rec9140 wrote:
andrew5859 wrote:By Touchpads, I mean or am talking about the Alps Dualpoint Touchpad, which a good majority of laptops use. In LM 9 I can take the cursor to the edge of the
Let me look at it.. I am not aware of the issue... mainly probably as I don't use my touchpad that way...and I guess I've never resized things that way on a laptop in decades... but...if theres an issue then it needs to be resolved....



Hey Rec,

I'm wondering if you've had a chance to look into that issue with the Alps P/S2 Dual Point Touchpad....I really like Mint, but if they don't (Devs, Canonical, etc.) fix this I'll have to go with something that is compatable with all the functions of my touchpad. You guys have done so well up to now with everything, but it seems that after version 9....they dropped the ball with functionality on certain things....this is very disappointing.

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by frsu » Tue May 03, 2011 12:23 pm

The mint menu should stay at least, but a netbook launcher like the original one in stead of Unity would be great on my netbooks.

CHEERS!

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Re: The Official UNOFFICIAL KMint 11 Kataya Request Thread

Post by rec9140 » Tue May 03, 2011 12:32 pm

frsu wrote:The mint menu should stay at least, but a netbook launcher like the original one in stead of Unity would be great on my netbooks.
This is for KMint the KDE version does not use or have anything to do with unity... You may wish to post this in the other version(s) forum(s) where ever they maybe. :mrgreen:
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