Mint 11 KDE development

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LifeInTheGrey
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by LifeInTheGrey » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:03 pm

rec9140 wrote:
LifeInTheGrey wrote:So either wait for 4.7.1 to be released to release an operating system overall, or work with the incredibly stable 4.6.3 (.4 pretty soon) until 4.7.1 hits the testing repos? Sounds like you're waiting either way ...
At this point in the release cycle may as well wait for 4.7.0 to be released. Thats just another reason to get OFF this April/October calendar watch... so upstream released the base in April, if it takes KMint Dev (aka Boo) 1 month to clean up the garbage in, then so be it. If at that point KDE is ready to release an upgrade then we should hold for that release, that was a good call in the past to do so.. it put KMint ahead of the upstream base. I would rather get ONE good release a year versus two not so good ones.

I am in no rush to get Kataya, unlike some others. Its clear that work and life have priorities for KMint Dev (aka Boo) and thats A-OK with me, so take care of those first, then put the time into Kataya. I would rather see the work take priority and get a current KDE release in Kataya, and then possible a KDebMint testing release to see where things would stand.
LifeInTheGrey wrote:Compiling IS scary as hell. Thank god as an LMDE user I've never had to use it ... that would drive me away. I just stick to apt-get and the Software Manager.
I have no issue with compiling, where the wheels fall of the bus is developers who do not document EXACTLY the dependencies for their software, a recent escpade with KMyPhoto or what ever its called, showed that the dendencies listed on their web site, were not all that was needed, and what certain pacakger(s) think was needed was not needed at all, made it far less than ./configure, make, sudo make install. This in LINUX OVERALL is the big let down, which will/does hinder its wider spread adpotion..
LifeInTheGrey wrote:I actually keep a witch doctor on retainer to get my OEM drivers to work. But then that's something I've done since Ubuntu 9.04 ... anyone remember installing the Broadcom STA drivers on that system? Awful!
And thats where the OEM drivers stand on Debian, awful. Its 2011, not 1998. And don't even get me started on the the whole community driver(s) thing... thats a tirade for another day. I am forced to use that c r a p because ati .... URRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!
LifeInTheGrey wrote:Ok sarcasm aside, it's obvious you haven't even tried LMDE yet. I've tried vanilla Debian ... and really, you're spot on about the analysis there. LMDE actually is DRASTICALLY better and more user-friendly. The fact that its based on Debian TESTING rather than Squeeze means much more frequent application updates (pretty much on par with Ubuntu), and as a guy who started his Linux voyage with Kubuntu ... it really isn't that much of a leap. You assume the heavy lifting won't be done by the Mint developers ... it already is being done man. You think Ubuntu was originally constructed from magic beans and unicorn farts to become this ubiquitous user-friendly system? Coders worked tirelessly on a DEBIAN base to improve hardware support and package management, and Ubuntu was born. Mint is just following those same footsteps, and they have the talent to do it right.

Making assumptions from fear and lack of knowledge on a topic rarely breeds good decisions. I suggest you try before you decry.
There you would be WRONG. Tried it... but it had an huge uphill battle to start from its stinky foot DE environment, to lack of OEM drivers, to the nightmare updates. It didn't last long on the test machine...

when I went:

sudo apt-get install darkice, and then gave it my standard config, and it failed, just as I expected, not compiled with MP3 support. FAIL.

Disk wiped for the next test distro....

Mint as far as the DebMint version is doing SOME of the heavy lifiting, codec support, etc... BUT its NOT DOING the AMOUNT that is REQUIRED. what canoncial is doing for xMint right now, in repos, PPA's, the xswat PPA alone for OEM drivers. Just compare progam support in repos either from whats there to the versions that are there, ie incomplete due missing features, older versions. etc... Is Mint ready to RECOMPILE 100's, 1000's or more programs and provide the repos for them ? ? This alone is what makes Canoncials Debian versions worth while, lets dump in the whole binary blob firmware debacle... The developer and maintainers at Debian need to quit drinking the FSF FlavorAde and get back on track. The FSF and RMS are not helping Linux as much as they think!. And, NO putting them in repos or on an alternate CD/DVD does NOT COUNT, period. Newbs will have no idea why their wireless card or something may not work, just Linux failed to allow me to connect to the internet, and they run back to whence they came. The no net and no drivers issue to resolve is a big issue for newbs to resolve, especially when BOTH your wired and wireless don't work. Nor do most users care.. they want their hardware to work, period. Only the RMS zealots of Linux have their panties in a wad over OEM v. open source drivers... thanks I will take the OEM nVidia drivers, any day.

The standard 1A response when software is on the chopping block, is well just install it... well it won't be so simple to install on KDebMint, since it may not exist in the repos, or what does is outdate, feature impaired or what not. So sudo apt-get install xyz may not be so simlpe a solution. This then turns things in to a big ordeal... Is there a DEB? Are the dendencies met|meetable, or does this send the user to Compileville ? ?

Face it, Canonocial is providing a HUGE AMOUNT of upgrdes to software, v. Debian, that the Mint community benefits from in ease of use of installing software. *DebMints will have to take this up on their own. No pointing to Debians repos, just is not the same level of experience from version to feature to.... others have pointed this out as well. Thats a big investment in resources, servers & bandwidth, developers to recompile, repackage etc... Where will this come from ? The community? Who? And how? Just like the adage goes, No Bucks, no Buck Rogers! Same here.. some one has to pony up the $$$, £, € ,¥ and we don't have Shuttleworth to bank roll things... With out Canoncial there would have never been *Mint, period. And *Mint is riding the coat tails of Canoncial... now based on the direction Canonocial is headed... some of the free ride may soon be over for some versions.. how it effects KMint's base is open for interperation.. but some of the stupid decisions are being foisted upon it, so KDM, if LightDM proves unworthy, has XDMCP so it gets 1.5 stars to start, will have to be reinstaled for any future KMints past 11.10 upstream.

It means that a LOT MORE WORK is going to have to be done by Mint itself on things..
Forgive me if my response lacks the verboseness, caps lock need and excessive use of exclamation points that yours do.

Your logic regarding Canonical's work basically infers that no one should even bother attempting it, because of the sheer size of work invested and scope of their operation. We should accept the shortcomings of whatever direction they've chosen for their system simply because there are still many good things about it, despite the increasing number of bad things. That sounds an awful lot like an argument for Windows.

Obviously you don't like the direction of where things are going, and nothing I say can convince you otherwise, so I won't clog the thread with a spat back and forth about how wrong you are or anything so subjective and unending. The devs decided after much work on the code that this was the best choice to provide a quality product. Either you can write another novel about how much of a travesty this is, or you can submit ideas (hell, maybe even code) to improve what you see as shortcomings.

Or you could install KDE on top of the main edition, like a lot of other people have done. Still nice and Ubuntuy for ya there.
the beauty of linux is that the rabbit hole goes as deep as you want it to go.

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by zerozero » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:59 pm

rec9140 wrote: when I went:

sudo apt-get install darkice, and then gave it my standard config, and it failed, just as I expected, not compiled with MP3 support. FAIL.

Disk wiped for the next test distro....
you should try sudo apt-get install darkice-full

Code: Select all

amadeu@lmde-test ~ $ apt show darkice-full
Package: darkice-full
New: yes
State: not installed
Version: 1.0+aacplus2-0.3
Priority: optional
Section: sound
Maintainer: Christian Marillat <marillat@debian.org>
Uncompressed Size: 369 k
Depends: libaacplus2 (>= 2.0.0), libasound2 (> 1.0.18), libc6 (>= 2.3.2),
         libfaac0, libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libjack-jackd2-0 (>= 1.9.5~dfsg-14) |
         libjack-0.116, libmp3lame0 (>= 3.98.2-0.5), libogg0 (>= 1.0rc3),
         libpulse0 (>= 0.9.21), libsamplerate0, libstdc++6 (>= 4.4.0),
         libtwolame0, libvorbis0a (>= 1.1.2), libvorbisenc2 (>= 1.1.2)
Conflicts: darkice
Replaces: darkice
Provides: darkice
Description: Live audio streamer
 DarkIce is an IceCast, IceCast2 and ShoutCast live audio streamer. It takes
 audio input from a sound card, encodes it into mp3 and/or Ogg Vorbis, and sends
 the mp3 stream to one or more IceCast and/or ShoutCast servers, the Ogg Vorbis
 stream to one or more IceCast2 servers. DarkIce uses lame as a shared object as
 its mp3 encoder, and the Ogg Vorbis as its Ogg Vorbis encoder. 
 
 This package add aac, aacplus and pulse support to Darkice.
Homepage: http://darkice.tyrell.hu/

Image

[ bliss of ignorance ]

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rec9140
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by rec9140 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:39 am

LifeInTheGrey wrote:Your logic regarding Canonical's work basically infers that no one should even bother attempting it, because of the sheer size of work invested and scope of their operation. We should accept the shortcomings of whatever direction they've chosen for their system simply because there are still many good things about it, despite the increasing number of bad things. That sounds an awful lot like an argument for W[censored blasphemy!]
If your putting your distro(s) out there as newb friendly, then your distro has a lot to live up to. Canonocial and the *buntus have set the bar high. KMint has set the bar EVEN HIGHER for KDE distros. Theres a lot to make up for that Canonocial is provoding.... and if your not prepared to do that, then you should be prepared to get the backlash from a community that you once were going after. Newbs are not going to solve the no network issue, as an example.. Nor are newbs going to tolerate upgrade/update carnage. They are not going to have a spare box to test updates out on, they will hit update and accept what ever comes along. Then they are toast when the system no longer boots or only to a command line. Thats the end of that conversion, back they will run, and the bad mouthing of Linux and *Mint will commence.
LifeInTheGrey wrote:Obviously you don't like the direction of where things are going
Correct, I am just willing to speak up... versus the silent lurkers, and rail against those not even using the KMint version on a day to day, get things done, real world user. I don't use anything but KMint. Any PC I am personally in command and control of work or personal, has KMint from Daryna to Julia on it.. those I can't change, YET, from the wintard OS at work have XMing for XDMCP back to a real OS. I walk up to any of seveal thousand PC's and am back to a real OS in minutes either XDMCP or USB dongle I keep on my keychain.
LifeInTheGrey wrote:Or you could install KDE on top of the main edition, like a lot of other people have done. Still nice and Ubuntuy for ya there.
No thanks, I prefer to have a pure KDE distro, and one with out a stench from the stinky foot DE and mono/moonlight.
Julep....mixing.....KDE Done right, and minty.
http://www.juleplinux.com

Its been a great 3 year run! Thanks for the fish.. but time for new waters....

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by kmb42vt » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:46 pm

Seems to me that all this discourse for and against Mint's KDE edition switching from an Ubuntu base to Debian is completely irrelevant until such time as the LMDE respin is released as using the original release and updating from Debian testing is obviously not viable any longer. No one here (including myself) and very possibly Boo as well knows how well the new respin with the new update system in place is going work yet or if it can act as a stable base for future Mint releases or that it will provide an up to date experience as far as the popular apps are concerned. Too many things are up in the air yet. There's even the suggestion of possibly hosting a new repository for Mint's own KDE build, one possible reason is to host a version of KDE more up to date than what is available in Debian Testing perhaps? Who knows?

We can banter all day long about the pros and cons of switching Kmint's base and I'm not saying we shouldn't continue (not at all, I like banter), but banter is all it will be since the Mint-Debian base that Kmint might be based on in the near future does not exist yet.

Just my opinion of course, as usual. :D
Last edited by kmb42vt on Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by thenewguy » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:00 pm

LifeInTheGrey wrote: Or you could install KDE on top of the main edition, like a lot of other people have done. Still nice and Ubuntuy for ya there.
I tried that and it doesn't work properly. If you install the KDE packages on top of the Main edition one of two things happens.
1. If you install the kdm login manager then the system locks up and refuses to boot.
2. If you stick with the default gdm login manager then KDE cannot perform restart/shutdown actions.

Either way it's a half-baked solution and not a suitable approach for a distribution which bills itself as user-friendly.

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by LifeInTheGrey » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:22 pm

kmb42vt wrote:Seems to me that all this discourse for and against Mint's KDE edition switching from an Ubuntu base to Debian is completely irrelevant until such time as the LMDE respin is released as using the original release and updating from Debian testing is obviously not viable any longer. No one here (including myself) and very possibly Boo as well knows how well the new respin with the new update system in place is going work yet or if it can act as a stable base for future Mint releases or that it will provide an up to date experience as far as the popular apps are concerned. Too many things are up in the air yet. There's even the suggestion of possibly hosting a new repository for Mint's own KDE build, one possible reason is to host a more up to date version of KDE more up to date than what is available in Debian Testing perhaps? Who knows?

We can banter all day long about the pros and cons of switching Kmint's base and I'm not saying we shouldn't continue (not at all, I like banter), but banter is all it will be since the Mint-Debian base that Kmint might be based on in the near future does not exist yet.

Just my opinion of course, as usual. :D
A valid point ... we are merely arguing on the basis of theoretics rather than tangible facts, and that is a fight no one can win. I suppose the only reason I took the comments to heart was because, frankly, it shows a complete lack of trust and faith in Mint's developers to make a rational decision. I firmly believe that, knowing the code of each project as they do, they have most informed opinion regarding the direction they wish to take they're own project. They have always listened to the community here, and they are very good about responding, but in the end the decision is theirs, and all we can do is hope that once the product becomes available that it is something we still like. While I personally am a huge advocate of LMDE, I can understand certain individuals' resistance to it. Perhaps the reason I so adamantly responded was because the LOTR-like novels that were written purely out of fear show a complete lack of faith in the developers. Not to say there isn't evidence to refute the "trust the developers" idea ... I mean look at what Unity did to Ubuntu ... but as a person who runs 4 different machines off of LMDE, in which the lot includes many different pieces of hardware with proprietary drivers (I'm broke, so patchwork is usually in order) I feel like after watching the LMDE project from its inception that there is sufficient evidence to support the idea that it will rapidly improve and quickly surpass the main edition.

But you're right, it is all opinion right now. In my opinion, however, my money is on Mint.
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by kmb42vt » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:12 pm

LifeInTheGrey wrote:A valid point ... we are merely arguing on the basis of theoretics rather than tangible facts, and that is a fight no one can win. I suppose the only reason I took the comments to heart was because, frankly, it shows a complete lack of trust and faith in Mint's developers to make a rational decision. I firmly believe that, knowing the code of each project as they do, they have most informed opinion regarding the direction they wish to take they're own project. They have always listened to the community here, and they are very good about responding, but in the end the decision is theirs, and all we can do is hope that once the product becomes available that it is something we still like. While I personally am a huge advocate of LMDE, I can understand certain individuals' resistance to it. Perhaps the reason I so adamantly responded was because the LOTR-like novels that were written purely out of fear show a complete lack of faith in the developers. Not to say there isn't evidence to refute the "trust the developers" idea ... I mean look at what Unity did to Ubuntu ... but as a person who runs 4 different machines off of LMDE, in which the lot includes many different pieces of hardware with proprietary drivers (I'm broke, so patchwork is usually in order) I feel like after watching the LMDE project from its inception that there is sufficient evidence to support the idea that it will rapidly improve and quickly surpass the main edition.

But you're right, it is all opinion right now. In my opinion, however, my money is on Mint.
I can't blame you a bit for "taking it to heart", I've done that myself a few times already. :wink:

In the end I would be more inclined towards an LMDE base for KDE than Kubuntu for the exact same reasons stated by Boo, Clem and others including yourself (and my money is on Mint as well). Canonical appears to have lost direction in many areas of late; quality and user experience not being the least--I'm sure we don't have to cover that ground again.

Just bantering here, what I will miss is the well established, rich environment of Ubuntu based PPAs, absolutely unique to Ubuntu and Ubuntu based distros. If you need something more up to date or a particular app not included in the default Ubuntu repos or just about anything else for that matter, chances are you can find what you're looking for in the PPAs. In the same vein of thinking, Ubuntu base .deb install packages are becoming more common place these days for the more popular software found here and there on the Internet, usually listed right under the Windows and Mac versions. I will definitely miss that.

What I won't miss is the 6 month release, "back up my data and install-fresh-yet-again" cycle while dealing with all the upstream problems and updates that are meant to fix bugs that shouldn't have been in the Ubuntu/Kubuntu/(name your flavor) release in the first place. And I really can't believe that Clem and Co. enjoy having to overhaul each 'buntu release every 6 months just in order to pound it into something that actually provides a decent out-of-box experience either.

Weighing all the liabilities and assets over time, Canonical's offering being used as a base for most future Mint releases is weighing somewhat heavily on the liabilities side of things it seems to me. Suffice it to say that if anyone can pull off building a Debian based "bouncing" (rolls every month) distro that not only provides a user friendly experience for the new user but a great out-of-the-box experience as well, it's Mint. And all without having it's own parent company.

Wouldn't that put a burr under Canonicals saddle? But I digress. :D
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by kmb42vt » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:18 pm

rec9140 wrote:
LifeInTheGrey wrote:Your logic regarding Canonical's work basically infers that no one should even bother attempting it, because of the sheer size of work invested and scope of their operation. We should accept the shortcomings of whatever direction they've chosen for their system simply because there are still many good things about it, despite the increasing number of bad things. That sounds an awful lot like an argument for W[censored blasphemy!]
If your putting your distro(s) out there as newb friendly, then your distro has a lot to live up to. Canonocial and the *buntus have set the bar high. KMint has set the bar EVEN HIGHER for KDE distros. Theres a lot to make up for that Canonocial is provoding.... and if your not prepared to do that, then you should be prepared to get the backlash from a community that you once were going after. Newbs are not going to solve the no network issue, as an example.. Nor are newbs going to tolerate upgrade/update carnage. They are not going to have a spare box to test updates out on, they will hit update and accept what ever comes along. Then they are toast when the system no longer boots or only to a command line. Thats the end of that conversion, back they will run, and the bad mouthing of Linux and *Mint will commence.
LifeInTheGrey wrote:Obviously you don't like the direction of where things are going
Correct, I am just willing to speak up... versus the silent lurkers, and rail against those not even using the KMint version on a day to day, get things done, real world user. I don't use anything but KMint. Any PC I am personally in command and control of work or personal, has KMint from Daryna to Julia on it.. those I can't change, YET, from the wintard OS at work have XMing for XDMCP back to a real OS. I walk up to any of seveal thousand PC's and am back to a real OS in minutes either XDMCP or USB dongle I keep on my keychain.
LifeInTheGrey wrote:Or you could install KDE on top of the main edition, like a lot of other people have done. Still nice and Ubuntuy for ya there.
No thanks, I prefer to have a pure KDE distro, and one with out a stench from the stinky foot DE and mono/moonlight.
Not commenting directly upon your points at all as we've already gone over that ground, I have to say that the presentation is much improved. Good on ya'! (no, I'm not being sarcastic) :)
Last edited by kmb42vt on Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by craig10x » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:20 pm

+1 kmb42vt :D
I couldn't have put it better... :wink:

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by LifeInTheGrey » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:08 pm

kmb42vt wrote:I can't blame you a bit for "taking it to heart", I've done that myself a few times already. :wink:

In the end I would be more inclined towards an LMDE base for KDE than Kubuntu for the exact same reasons stated by Boo, Clem and others including yourself (and my money is on Mint as well). Canonical appears to have lost direction in many areas of late; quality and user experience not being the least--I'm sure we don't have to cover that ground again.

Just bantering here, what I will miss is the well established, rich environment of Ubuntu based PPAs, absolutely unique to Ubuntu and Ubuntu based distros. If you need something more up to date or a particular app not included in the default Ubuntu repos or just about anything else for that matter, chances are you can find what you're looking for in the PPAs. In the same vein of thinking, Ubuntu base .deb install packages are becoming more common place these days for the more popular software found here and there on the Internet, usually listed right under the Windows and Mac versions. I will definitely miss that.

What I won't miss is the 6 month release, "back up my data and install-fresh-yet-again" cycle while dealing with all the upstream problems and updates that are meant to fix bugs that shouldn't have been in the Ubuntu/Kubuntu/(name your flavor) release in the first place. And I really can't believe that Clem and Co. enjoy having to overhaul each 'buntu release every 6 months just in order to pound it into something that actually provides a decent out-of-box experience either.

Weighing all the liabilities and assets over time, Canonical's offering being used as a base for most future Mint releases is weighing somewhat heavily on the liabilities side of things it seems to me. Suffice it to say that if anyone can pull off building a Debian based "bouncing" (rolls every month) distro that not only provides a user friendly experience for the new user but a great out-of-the-box experience as well, it's Mint. And all without having it's own parent company.

Wouldn't that put a burr under Canonicals saddle? But I digress. :D
+1 on pretty much everything you said. I was an Ubuntu/Kubuntu user for quite a while before changing to LMDE (actually, what started the change was my testing of Ubuntu 11.04 Beta), and there are obviously MANY benefits to it. PPAs are fantastic, and while I've found most of the applications that I use do not require them (pidgin, chromium, etc. all update just fine on LMDE without PPAs), I realize there are many applications out there that absolutely do require them. And what you mentioned about debs is true ... other than Chrome and Virtualbox, I haven't seen an application that had a deb install that wasn't listed as "Ubuntu". While for all the programs like this I've encountered they have installed just fine on LMDE, I'm sure there at some point I will find one that will require dependencies Debian doesn't have. Honestly, I will miss Ubuntu for what it was.

But the future is bright. ;)
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by tdockery97 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:32 pm

thenewguy wrote:
LifeInTheGrey wrote: Or you could install KDE on top of the main edition, like a lot of other people have done. Still nice and Ubuntuy for ya there.
I tried that and it doesn't work properly. If you install the KDE packages on top of the Main edition one of two things happens.
1. If you install the kdm login manager then the system locks up and refuses to boot.
2. If you stick with the default gdm login manager then KDE cannot perform restart/shutdown actions.

Either way it's a half-baked solution and not a suitable approach for a distribution which bills itself as user-friendly.
Actually, If you watch what you are doing, and remove Nautilus (which gets rid of a lot of Gnome stuff), it works very well indeed. Every bit as good as Mint 10 KDE. I just did it today. Here is a screenshot:
Image
Mint Cinnamon 19.3 Beta

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by randomizer » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:35 am

There are some quirks with pure Debian that annoy me and would most certainly annoy someone who doesn't understand why they are there. My primary beef at the moment is the fact that NTFS filesystems, which many Windows users will have, don't get mounted on demand with read/write permissions under a normal user account. Only root can mount them. I think it has something to do with ntfs-3g not being setuid root (there was a security issue identified with it that Debian devs considered unacceptable), whereas it has been configured this way in Ubuntu and its derivatives. Every time I click on the device in Nautilus I receive permissions errors. I don't consider /etc/fstab to be an adequate solution, as this is simply a prehistoric method of managing mounts. I like the fact that GNU/Linux is, for the most part, an "on demand" operating system. /etc/fstab doesn't fit into that paradigm. In addition, /etc/fstab is confusing when you first see it, and it's very easy to cause problems with booting the system if you don't modify it correctly.

Based on the Debian bug report about this it's looks like upstream has implemented a debconf option for enabling setuid root on ntfs-3g, so perhaps this issue will be more easily worked around soon, if it isn't already. Until then it's something that should be kept in mind for the LM editions that are looking to move to Debian, and even those that already have.

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by Andrew33 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:21 pm

As with any distro, if you go into control panel/system settings- users & groups - then set yourself up as admin/owner, all you would have to do is enter a password to access the resources, including any drives, usb or otherwise. As for the distro's that could possibly go debian....it would be a good thing, because that means that instead of waiting for a new release and then having to back up and install a new copy, it would be a rolling release without the hassle of doing all of the former. Sure I'd miss to some degree, the setting up of all the PPA's the Ubuntu and Kubuntu and all other buntu base distro's have, but that's a headache I could do without. But you know as well as anyone else, that everyone has their own preference as to what they want to deal with, and others want to make a point of their displeasure about the changes that are currently being implemented in curtain distro's, because they're afraid of change or don't want anything to change. I've learned this the hard way.....no matter how much you stand in one place, the world is constantly changing around you and moving forward....or backward depending on the toughts of men.


Cheers
Andrew

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by marcus0263 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:40 pm

My two bits for what it's worth is this.

Rebasing to Debian is the natural evolution of Mint. When Clem first started this project with the limited resources he had at the time it made sense to base on Ubuntu. But now Mint has not only become a very popular distro but there are a lot more resources available. Those resources IMO are best utilized in developing "Mint" tools and customizations for "Mint" instead of cleaning up Ubuntu's mess's.

I love the plan of a semi rolling distro with "groups" Clem posted on the Blog.

Do the current Mint release need work? Hell yeah, just give them a bit more time and I foresee them a rockin. I very much look forward to cutting the Ubuntu umbilical cord with their insane 6 month buggy release cycles.

Future looks very bright for Mint ;)
Shuttle SX58
Intel i7 Gulftown Hex Core
G.Skill 16Gig 1333
OCS Vertex 2 SSD
Segate SATA II
Palit GeForce GTS 450
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by randomizer » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:18 pm

andrew5859 wrote:As with any distro, if you go into control panel/system settings- users & groups - then set yourself up as admin/owner, all you would have to do is enter a password to access the resources, including any drives, usb or otherwise.
You don't need to do this for any of the other drives though (/, /home, etc). While from a technical standpoint there are reasons why NTFS drives require the user to have root privileges to mount them, it's an inconsistency to the normal user. They don't know the difference between NTFS or ext4, and they certainly don't know that a different driver is being loaded to mount the NTFS filesystems on demand.

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BubbaBlues
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by BubbaBlues » Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:44 pm

Re: Mint 11 KDE development

New postby marcus0263 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:40 am
My two bits for what it's worth is this.

Rebasing to Debian is the natural evolution of Mint. When Clem first started this project with the limited resources he had at the time it made sense to base on Ubuntu. But now Mint has not only become a very popular distro but there are a lot more resources available. Those resources IMO are best utilized in developing "Mint" tools and customizations for "Mint" instead of cleaning up Ubuntu's mess's.
It would be nice if they used some of those resources on some better servers. Three minutes for a page to load is just ridiculous. Then to actually post something in the forum can take up to seven or eight minutes.
"I sometimes wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by embeciles who really mean it."
Mark Twain

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by kmb42vt » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:27 am

BubbaBlues wrote:
Re: Mint 11 KDE development

New postby marcus0263 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:40 am
My two bits for what it's worth is this.

Rebasing to Debian is the natural evolution of Mint. When Clem first started this project with the limited resources he had at the time it made sense to base on Ubuntu. But now Mint has not only become a very popular distro but there are a lot more resources available. Those resources IMO are best utilized in developing "Mint" tools and customizations for "Mint" instead of cleaning up Ubuntu's mess's.
It would be nice if they used some of those resources on some better servers. Three minutes for a page to load is just ridiculous. Then to actually post something in the forum can take up to seven or eight minutes.
Actually they have been purchasing new servers (and hosting as well) for testing new builds and hosting the new update repos for the LMDE. They've also been working on getting the main website, the Community website and the forums moved to "better quarters" as it were. They've done this once already I believe but the amount of traffic has significantly increased since then especially to the forums and the main website as Mint became more popular.

I understand your position as I've had the forums and the main website actually fail to load altogether but in all reality though, it's still a matter of being patient. Linux Mint is very limited on resources having to depend solely on donations and relatively small sponsorships which means it's always down to "one thing at a time". They've never failed to take care of problems like this and they'll see to it as soon as they are able, I'm sure. They always have in the past.
"Humph. Choice, it is the quintessential Linux delusion, simultaneously the source of it's greatest strength, and it's greatest weakness." (All apologies to The Architect)

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by BubbaBlues » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:16 pm

Yeah I know it will get straightened out eventually. It just looks bad ya know, to have one of, if not THE best linux distro available and a
website that's barely even usable sometimes. I still love it though, I'm not goin'g anywhere. 8)
"I sometimes wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by embeciles who really mean it."
Mark Twain

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by ToxicBladez711 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:21 am

Will there be a possibility of somehow adding apt-add-repository into the LMDE? As it stands, it is the only reason I dislike Debian. I don't like having to open sources.list with a text editor and then also find the gpg key =/

If you can pull this off then LMDE will be so amazing!

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Post by BubbaBlues » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:49 pm

There are a lot of things I don't like about debian, but then there are a lot of things I don't like about women. Doesn't mean I won't use it.
Wait,that came out wrong. :lol: Anyway, I'm keeping an open mind. 8)
"I sometimes wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by embeciles who really mean it."
Mark Twain

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