Forgive me if my response lacks the verboseness, caps lock need and excessive use of exclamation points that yours do.rec9140 wrote:At this point in the release cycle may as well wait for 4.7.0 to be released. Thats just another reason to get OFF this April/October calendar watch... so upstream released the base in April, if it takes KMint Dev (aka Boo) 1 month to clean up the garbage in, then so be it. If at that point KDE is ready to release an upgrade then we should hold for that release, that was a good call in the past to do so.. it put KMint ahead of the upstream base. I would rather get ONE good release a year versus two not so good ones.LifeInTheGrey wrote:So either wait for 4.7.1 to be released to release an operating system overall, or work with the incredibly stable 4.6.3 (.4 pretty soon) until 4.7.1 hits the testing repos? Sounds like you're waiting either way ...
I am in no rush to get Kataya, unlike some others. Its clear that work and life have priorities for KMint Dev (aka Boo) and thats A-OK with me, so take care of those first, then put the time into Kataya. I would rather see the work take priority and get a current KDE release in Kataya, and then possible a KDebMint testing release to see where things would stand.
I have no issue with compiling, where the wheels fall of the bus is developers who do not document EXACTLY the dependencies for their software, a recent escpade with KMyPhoto or what ever its called, showed that the dendencies listed on their web site, were not all that was needed, and what certain pacakger(s) think was needed was not needed at all, made it far less than ./configure, make, sudo make install. This in LINUX OVERALL is the big let down, which will/does hinder its wider spread adpotion..LifeInTheGrey wrote:Compiling IS scary as hell. Thank god as an LMDE user I've never had to use it ... that would drive me away. I just stick to apt-get and the Software Manager.
And thats where the OEM drivers stand on Debian, awful. Its 2011, not 1998. And don't even get me started on the the whole community driver(s) thing... thats a tirade for another day. I am forced to use that c r a p because ati .... URRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!LifeInTheGrey wrote:I actually keep a witch doctor on retainer to get my OEM drivers to work. But then that's something I've done since Ubuntu 9.04 ... anyone remember installing the Broadcom STA drivers on that system? Awful!
There you would be WRONG. Tried it... but it had an huge uphill battle to start from its stinky foot DE environment, to lack of OEM drivers, to the nightmare updates. It didn't last long on the test machine...LifeInTheGrey wrote:Ok sarcasm aside, it's obvious you haven't even tried LMDE yet. I've tried vanilla Debian ... and really, you're spot on about the analysis there. LMDE actually is DRASTICALLY better and more user-friendly. The fact that its based on Debian TESTING rather than Squeeze means much more frequent application updates (pretty much on par with Ubuntu), and as a guy who started his Linux voyage with Kubuntu ... it really isn't that much of a leap. You assume the heavy lifting won't be done by the Mint developers ... it already is being done man. You think Ubuntu was originally constructed from magic beans and unicorn farts to become this ubiquitous user-friendly system? Coders worked tirelessly on a DEBIAN base to improve hardware support and package management, and Ubuntu was born. Mint is just following those same footsteps, and they have the talent to do it right.
Making assumptions from fear and lack of knowledge on a topic rarely breeds good decisions. I suggest you try before you decry.
when I went:
sudo apt-get install darkice, and then gave it my standard config, and it failed, just as I expected, not compiled with MP3 support. FAIL.
Disk wiped for the next test distro....
Mint as far as the DebMint version is doing SOME of the heavy lifiting, codec support, etc... BUT its NOT DOING the AMOUNT that is REQUIRED. what canoncial is doing for xMint right now, in repos, PPA's, the xswat PPA alone for OEM drivers. Just compare progam support in repos either from whats there to the versions that are there, ie incomplete due missing features, older versions. etc... Is Mint ready to RECOMPILE 100's, 1000's or more programs and provide the repos for them ? ? This alone is what makes Canoncials Debian versions worth while, lets dump in the whole binary blob firmware debacle... The developer and maintainers at Debian need to quit drinking the FSF FlavorAde and get back on track. The FSF and RMS are not helping Linux as much as they think!. And, NO putting them in repos or on an alternate CD/DVD does NOT COUNT, period. Newbs will have no idea why their wireless card or something may not work, just Linux failed to allow me to connect to the internet, and they run back to whence they came. The no net and no drivers issue to resolve is a big issue for newbs to resolve, especially when BOTH your wired and wireless don't work. Nor do most users care.. they want their hardware to work, period. Only the RMS zealots of Linux have their panties in a wad over OEM v. open source drivers... thanks I will take the OEM nVidia drivers, any day.
The standard 1A response when software is on the chopping block, is well just install it... well it won't be so simple to install on KDebMint, since it may not exist in the repos, or what does is outdate, feature impaired or what not. So sudo apt-get install xyz may not be so simlpe a solution. This then turns things in to a big ordeal... Is there a DEB? Are the dendencies met|meetable, or does this send the user to Compileville ? ?
Face it, Canonocial is providing a HUGE AMOUNT of upgrdes to software, v. Debian, that the Mint community benefits from in ease of use of installing software. *DebMints will have to take this up on their own. No pointing to Debians repos, just is not the same level of experience from version to feature to.... others have pointed this out as well. Thats a big investment in resources, servers & bandwidth, developers to recompile, repackage etc... Where will this come from ? The community? Who? And how? Just like the adage goes, No Bucks, no Buck Rogers! Same here.. some one has to pony up the $$$, £, € ,¥ and we don't have Shuttleworth to bank roll things... With out Canoncial there would have never been *Mint, period. And *Mint is riding the coat tails of Canoncial... now based on the direction Canonocial is headed... some of the free ride may soon be over for some versions.. how it effects KMint's base is open for interperation.. but some of the stupid decisions are being foisted upon it, so KDM, if LightDM proves unworthy, has XDMCP so it gets 1.5 stars to start, will have to be reinstaled for any future KMints past 11.10 upstream.
It means that a LOT MORE WORK is going to have to be done by Mint itself on things..
Your logic regarding Canonical's work basically infers that no one should even bother attempting it, because of the sheer size of work invested and scope of their operation. We should accept the shortcomings of whatever direction they've chosen for their system simply because there are still many good things about it, despite the increasing number of bad things. That sounds an awful lot like an argument for Windows.
Obviously you don't like the direction of where things are going, and nothing I say can convince you otherwise, so I won't clog the thread with a spat back and forth about how wrong you are or anything so subjective and unending. The devs decided after much work on the code that this was the best choice to provide a quality product. Either you can write another novel about how much of a travesty this is, or you can submit ideas (hell, maybe even code) to improve what you see as shortcomings.
Or you could install KDE on top of the main edition, like a lot of other people have done. Still nice and Ubuntuy for ya there.