Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

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Fandangio
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by Fandangio »

I hope you enjoy it Craig. KDE is awesome when you get to know it.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by craig10x »

Fandangio wrote:I hope you enjoy it Craig. KDE is awesome when you get to know it.
Thanks for the encouragement Fandangio :D ....i will let you know how it works out for me...I have tried kde before but now i'd like to see if i can make the conversion over on a permanent basis :wink:
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by tomp01 »

Fandangio wrote:Replaced PCLinuxOS on my spare machine with Kubuntu 11.10 and I must say I am well impressed.

As others have already said, I think this is the best KDE distro to date (and by some margin).
I installed it last week it is very good but there are some really annoying aspects to it as well. I find it baffling why KDE/Kubuntu go to extraordinary lengths at times to bury such simple features which you would assume ought to be standard. It's puzzling why the Snap Icon to Grid feature only works in Folder View mode and even then you cannot select the icons from the menu by right clicking and selecting Add to Desktop. I found that you have to drag and drop them to the desktop and then click on Copy Here. I also cannot understand why the icons have an exclamation mark associated with them, what's that all about? I just tried clicking on some of the icons and it asks you if you trust the program so you have to click on Continue and then the exclamation mark goes away. The whole process seems incredibly convoluted and anal to me. I think that one of the problems with KDE/Kubuntu is that it has far too many config options for its own good. Why would anyone want to put icons on the desktop and not want them to line up? It's the same with virtual desktops, you have to go to the pager icon to allow different widgets and wallpapers, that should be the default.

Skype didn't work without pratting around with sound levels and Lancelot has been removed from the default set of widgets which is just fugging nuts. You have to install it to get it back, I had thought it was going to be the default menu but instead of that they removed it altogether.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by craig10x »

I went back to mint main edition myself, after trying kubuntu 11.10...it was very pretty and did like certain aspects of it....but some things i found worked a bit "strange" and also there was some problems with certain things i like to do...and does tend to be a bit more overly complicated then it really needs to be...it made me realize that i was a "dyed in the wool" gnome guy and decided to return to mint 11...

I can understand that there are many kde fans but it's just not for me :wink:
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by rec9140 »

craig10x wrote:..but some things i found worked a bit "strange" and also there was some problems with certain things i like to do...and does tend to be a bit more overly complicated then it really needs to be.....
Can you please provide the details on......

What were the problems with the tasks or goals?

How and what was overly complicated?


Why is this important? If the issues are not outlined how can any distro improve upon the problems/issues? I'd like to know as I am curious by nature after reading the post.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by dequire »

rec9140 wrote:
craig10x wrote:..but some things i found worked a bit "strange" and also there was some problems with certain things i like to do...and does tend to be a bit more overly complicated then it really needs to be.....
Can you please provide the details on......

What were the problems with the tasks or goals?

How and what was overly complicated?


Why is this important? If the issues are not outlined how can any distro improve upon the problems/issues? I'd like to know as I am curious by nature after reading the post.
Same with me. I find KDE to be (as of around 4.5...) really easy and intuitive. The only thing I see people getting hung up on from time to time is Activities.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by craig10x »

I'll try to report back with my impressions about it when i get a chance...i am a little "shell shocked" at the moment after installing, uninstalling and re-installing over the weekend :wink: :lol:
I should be able to post back on wednesday about my observations...
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by rec9140 »

tomp01 wrote:I find it baffling why KDE/Kubuntu go to extraordinary lengths at times to bury such simple features which you would assume ought to be standard.
Such as?
tomp01 wrote: It's puzzling why the Snap Icon to Grid feature only works in Folder View mode
I would hazard a guess that in the view of the KDE Devs it doesn't make sense in the non desktop mode. In a normal desktop mode icons on the desktop and associated control over them would be in the proper context. Since I don't use the other mode, I have no idea how it operates other than not correctly.

tomp01 wrote: and even then you cannot select the icons from the menu by right clicking and selecting Add to Desktop. I found that you have to drag and drop them to the desktop and then click on Copy Here.
Never added icons that way, always right click on the desktop add... what ever it is.... Guess to me its not intuitive that you would do that. To me if you want an icon on the desktop, right click and add it.
tomp01 wrote: The whole process seems incredibly convoluted and anal to me. I think that one of the problems with KDE/Kubuntu is that it has far too many config options for its own good.
I guess I see it that others are way too un-configurable, or take a lot of work to run this or that to config outside the normal DE environment.
tomp01 wrote: Why would anyone want to put icons on the desktop and not want them to line up?
I don't use that feature, never have. I do not want my icons to align. I put them where I want them and so the wallpaper when the desktop is visible is visible itself. So that means I don't want icons covering it up. I put the icons where I want them I don't want them moving around, unless I change the wall paper and then choose to do it, or just adding things in some spot. Where I put the icons is where they should stay, till I move them.
tomp01 wrote:It's the same with virtual desktops, you have to go to the pager icon to allow different widgets and wallpapers, that should be the default.
While I don't disagree, I think this shows that you like I, have some very definite ideas on the way the desktop should operate, which the next guy down the road may not see it either of our ways. KDE or something else is a highly subjective and personal choice as is arranging the icons, themes, etc... Just like the knuckle head who decided that the default setting for opening a tab in Konqi should be to open in background. NO it should not, that just drives me batty, as would the icons aligning. When I setup stuff, it gets my take on it, just as if you were setting things up it would get your take. So if TomOP1 Linux came out it probably would not match my setup.
tomp01 wrote: Lancelot has been removed from the default set of widgets which is just fugging nuts. You have to install it to get it back, I had thought it was going to be the default menu but instead of that they removed it altogether.
When was lancelot the default? Since testing from alpha 3 of upstream, I've never seen it the default menu. I am not particularly in love with either to be honest. lancelot regardless of its authors assertions, is way to vistacr uddy in its looks and operation, but the default KDE one takes too much mouse movement to navigate backwards a level, no arrow on the left to go backwards, have to move to the upper right corner and click on the title again, too much movement. That too me doesn't seem logical, or I am spoiled from lancelot in Julia. Like I said I've got likes and hates on both.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by braingateway »

rec9140 wrote:
tomp01 wrote: It's puzzling why the Snap Icon to Grid feature only works in Folder View mode
I would hazard a guess that in the view of the KDE Devs ...
tomp01 wrote: and even then you cannot select the icons from the menu by right clicking and selecting Add to Desktop. I found that you have to drag and drop them to the desktop and then click on Copy Here.
Never added icons that way, always right click on the desktop add...
tomp01 wrote: Why would anyone want to put icons on the desktop and not want them to line up?
I think there are some misunderstanding about the concept of "desktop" in KDE4. The KDE4 try to redefine the "desktop". Now everything controlled by "plasma". And application shortcuts should be add to one of the "plasma applet", you will see, you can auto-arrange your shortcuts/icons inside the plasma applet. You can definitely create new icons or shortcuts from scratch, just by right-clicking inside this plasma applet, resembling "right-click" on conventional desktop. If you prefer to make this applet as big as the screen, it is also possible.
tomp01 wrote: and even then you cannot select the icons from the menu by right clicking and selecting Add to Desktop.
I do not know why it does not work for you. It always works for me. In my default installation of Kubuntu, you can right-click and select add to desktop. And the shortcut are connected to the menu item. If you change one of them, the other one will change accordingly. I think this is a very good feature.
tomp01 wrote:I think that one of the problems with KDE/Kubuntu is that it has far too many config options for its own good.
This is exactly why people use KDE. If it is as un-configurable as Gnome, we can go for Gnome, can't we?
tomp01 wrote:It's the same with virtual desktops, you have to go to the pager icon to allow different widgets and wallpapers, that should be the default.
This just personal style. Lots of people feel annoyed by unity or Gnome3 also. If u find the most KDE features are against u, u can just choose Gnome, xfce, etc.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by BubbaBlues »

and even then you cannot select the icons from the menu by right clicking and selecting Add to Desktop. I found that you have to drag and drop them to the desktop and then click on Copy Here.
You can't add icons to the desktop if your widgets are locked. Right click on the desktop, then click "unlock widgets" then you can add icons, move them around or
whatever. Once you lock widgets, it locks everything.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by tomp01 »

BubbaBlues wrote:
and even then you cannot select the icons from the menu by right clicking and selecting Add to Desktop. I found that you have to drag and drop them to the desktop and then click on Copy Here.
You can't add icons to the desktop if your widgets are locked. Right click on the desktop, then click "unlock widgets" then you can add icons, move them around or
whatever. Once you lock widgets, it locks everything.
confused, who said the widgets were locked?
Last edited by tomp01 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by tomp01 »

rec9140 wrote:
tomp01 wrote:I find it baffling why KDE/Kubuntu go to extraordinary lengths at times to bury such simple features which you would assume ought to be standard.
Such as?
tomp01 wrote: It's puzzling why the Snap Icon to Grid feature only works in Folder View mode
I would hazard a guess that in the view of the KDE Devs it doesn't make sense in the non desktop mode. In a normal desktop mode icons on the desktop and associated control over them would be in the proper context. Since I don't use the other mode, I have no idea how it operates other than not correctly.

tomp01 wrote: and even then you cannot select the icons from the menu by right clicking and selecting Add to Desktop. I found that you have to drag and drop them to the desktop and then click on Copy Here.
Never added icons that way, always right click on the desktop add... what ever it is.... Guess to me its not intuitive that you would do that. To me if you want an icon on the desktop, right click and add it.
tomp01 wrote: The whole process seems incredibly convoluted and anal to me. I think that one of the problems with KDE/Kubuntu is that it has far too many config options for its own good.
I guess I see it that others are way too un-configurable, or take a lot of work to run this or that to config outside the normal DE environment.
tomp01 wrote: Why would anyone want to put icons on the desktop and not want them to line up?
I don't use that feature, never have. I do not want my icons to align. I put them where I want them and so the wallpaper when the desktop is visible is visible itself. So that means I don't want icons covering it up. I put the icons where I want them I don't want them moving around, unless I change the wall paper and then choose to do it, or just adding things in some spot. Where I put the icons is where they should stay, till I move them.
tomp01 wrote:It's the same with virtual desktops, you have to go to the pager icon to allow different widgets and wallpapers, that should be the default.
While I don't disagree, I think this shows that you like I, have some very definite ideas on the way the desktop should operate, which the next guy down the road may not see it either of our ways. KDE or something else is a highly subjective and personal choice as is arranging the icons, themes, etc... Just like the knuckle head who decided that the default setting for opening a tab in Konqi should be to open in background. NO it should not, that just drives me batty, as would the icons aligning. When I setup stuff, it gets my take on it, just as if you were setting things up it would get your take. So if TomOP1 Linux came out it probably would not match my setup.
tomp01 wrote: Lancelot has been removed from the default set of widgets which is just fugging nuts. You have to install it to get it back, I had thought it was going to be the default menu but instead of that they removed it altogether.
When was lancelot the default? Since testing from alpha 3 of upstream, I've never seen it the default menu. I am not particularly in love with either to be honest. lancelot regardless of its authors assertions, is way to vistacr uddy in its looks and operation, but the default KDE one takes too much mouse movement to navigate backwards a level, no arrow on the left to go backwards, have to move to the upper right corner and click on the title again, too much movement. That too me doesn't seem logical, or I am spoiled from lancelot in Julia. Like I said I've got likes and hates on both.
First off have you got Kubuntu 11.10? You have always been able to just right click and put icon on the desktop. If you do that now then the icon won't snap to a grid. It only does that if you drag and drop the icon to the desktop, try it yourself if you don't believe me. Don't shoot the messenger!

I like the configurability of KDE but it is just over the top at times, as for Ubuntu I have that already thanks.

Why do people deliberately misread what you say? Where did I say that Lancelot was the default menu? I said that it was in the default set of widgets but has now been removed.

Final question, why would anybody want a desktop where the icons were all over the place? If are particularly perverse and you want that then that is the default behaviour anyway.

Linux Mint 10 KDE has a special Grid View which you can select from Desktop Settings, there is no equivalent in Kubuntu.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by tomp01 »

tomp01 wrote:
rec9140 wrote:
tomp01 wrote:I find it baffling why KDE/Kubuntu go to extraordinary lengths at times to bury such simple features which you would assume ought to be standard.
Such as?
tomp01 wrote: It's puzzling why the Snap Icon to Grid feature only works in Folder View mode
I would hazard a guess that in the view of the KDE Devs it doesn't make sense in the non desktop mode. In a normal desktop mode icons on the desktop and associated control over them would be in the proper context. Since I don't use the other mode, I have no idea how it operates other than not correctly.

tomp01 wrote: and even then you cannot select the icons from the menu by right clicking and selecting Add to Desktop. I found that you have to drag and drop them to the desktop and then click on Copy Here.
Never added icons that way, always right click on the desktop add... what ever it is.... Guess to me its not intuitive that you would do that. To me if you want an icon on the desktop, right click and add it.
tomp01 wrote: The whole process seems incredibly convoluted and anal to me. I think that one of the problems with KDE/Kubuntu is that it has far too many config options for its own good.
I guess I see it that others are way too un-configurable, or take a lot of work to run this or that to config outside the normal DE environment.
tomp01 wrote: Why would anyone want to put icons on the desktop and not want them to line up?
I don't use that feature, never have. I do not want my icons to align. I put them where I want them and so the wallpaper when the desktop is visible is visible itself. So that means I don't want icons covering it up. I put the icons where I want them I don't want them moving around, unless I change the wall paper and then choose to do it, or just adding things in some spot. Where I put the icons is where they should stay, till I move them.
tomp01 wrote:It's the same with virtual desktops, you have to go to the pager icon to allow different widgets and wallpapers, that should be the default.
While I don't disagree, I think this shows that you like I, have some very definite ideas on the way the desktop should operate, which the next guy down the road may not see it either of our ways. KDE or something else is a highly subjective and personal choice as is arranging the icons, themes, etc... Just like the knuckle head who decided that the default setting for opening a tab in Konqi should be to open in background. NO it should not, that just drives me batty, as would the icons aligning. When I setup stuff, it gets my take on it, just as if you were setting things up it would get your take. So if TomOP1 Linux came out it probably would not match my setup.
tomp01 wrote: Lancelot has been removed from the default set of widgets which is just fugging nuts. You have to install it to get it back, I had thought it was going to be the default menu but instead of that they removed it altogether.
When was lancelot the default? Since testing from alpha 3 of upstream, I've never seen it the default menu. I am not particularly in love with either to be honest. lancelot regardless of its authors assertions, is way to vistacr uddy in its looks and operation, but the default KDE one takes too much mouse movement to navigate backwards a level, no arrow on the left to go backwards, have to move to the upper right corner and click on the title again, too much movement. That too me doesn't seem logical, or I am spoiled from lancelot in Julia. Like I said I've got likes and hates on both.
First off have you got Kubuntu 11.10? You have always been able to just right click and put icon on the desktop. If you do that now then the icon won't snap to a grid. It only does that if you drag and drop the icon to the desktop, try it yourself if you don't believe me. Don't shoot the messenger!

I like the configurability of KDE but it is just over the top at times, as for Ubuntu I have that already thanks along with Mepis 11 and Zorin OS 5.

Why do people deliberately misread what you say? Where did I say that Lancelot was the default menu? I said that it was in the default set of widgets but has now been removed.

Final question, why would anybody want a desktop where the icons were all over the place? If you are particularly perverse and want that then that is the default behaviour anyway.

Linux Mint 10 KDE has a special Grid View which you can select from Desktop Settings, there is no equivalent in Kubuntu.
Last edited by tomp01 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by braingateway »

The major issue with Kubuntu is following 3:
1. the KCM-grub2 is not included as default.
2. unless you remove the autoboot default item after xxx seconds or hold "SHIFT", the grub menu cannot be displayed :oops: probably it is Grub2's style? :-/
It display as Ubuntu instead of Kubuntu, confusing users who have also normal Ubuntu installed....
3. the closed window will still stay on the taskbar...

Comparing to MintKDE10, Kubuntu 11.10 looks like an armature work.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by tomp01 »

braingateway wrote:The major issue with Kubuntu is following 3:
1. the KCM-grub2 is not included as default.
2. unless you remove the autoboot default item after xxx seconds or hold "SHIFT", the grub menu cannot be displayed :oops: probably it is Grub2's style? :-/
It display as Ubuntu instead of Kubuntu, confusing users who have also normal Ubuntu installed....
3. the closed window will still stay on the taskbar...

Comparing to MintKDE10, Kubuntu 11.10 looks like an armature work.
I am inclined to agree with you, Kubuntu Oneiric is very nice visually, relatively stable but some of the config options are just truly eccentric. Let's hope that LMDE will be Kubuntu 11.10 without the eccentricity.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by rec9140 »

tomp01 wrote:First off have you got Kubuntu 11.10?
Well sort of, I have Julep Linux Alpha 1 :D which is Kubuntu 11.10, have been testing upstream base since alpha 3 on daily builds.

tomp01 wrote:You have always been able to just right click and put icon on the desktop. If you do that now then the icon won't snap to a grid. It only does that if you drag and drop the icon to the desktop, try it yourself if you don't believe me. Don't shoot the messenger!
Since I don't use snap to grid, I would never notice, file a bug, as if thats supposed to be the behavior when thats enabled its obvisouly not working. Since I don't want snap, I wouldn't see notice it.
tomp01 wrote: I like the configurability of KDE but it is just over the top at times
I don't under stand what is "over the top" on the configurability, or you want to have use some like another particular DE uses a config program and these are hidden in the main, DE?

If thats what you saying, well to that, no thanks for me. I just want to KMenu | System Settings and change what I need. Thats one of the reasons I add Kalternatives, so you can change a bunch more stuff that really should be in there already.
tomp01 wrote: Why do people deliberately misread what you say? Where did I say that Lancelot was the default menu? I said that it was in the default set of widgets but has now been removed.
Well I am not a widget person, and the only thing I know about lancelot is its an optional KMenu thingy, which KMint Julia had in the RC, and is in my Julia installs. If there is something else I don't know of the widget you speak.
tomp01 wrote:Final question, why would anybody want a desktop where the icons were all over the place? If are particularly perverse and you want that then that is the default behaviour anyway.
My desktop has a wallpaper which changes based on mood, current hottie of the month|moment|second. The icons that are on my desktop I don't want covering this up.

Additionally icons on my desktop are in the spot I want them, thus the Konqi web browser link is in the upper left corner, the Konqi in file manager mode icon is below it. I choose wallpapers mostly that don't require me to reorder most of this, theres some for ssh links to various host, XMDCP links into hosts, SMB shares etc.. maybe 10-12 tops.

I want the icons to go where I put them and stay there. The wallpaper for me is important as the icons on the desktop, its not just there to be there. Its chosen for its content, or lack thereof depending on your take. :D :P :P

For you, I guess the wallpaper is less important as the icons, thats certainly an option. Which is what I was getting to in my post your chosen feature is not the default, and you asked who/why would you do this. I outlined that I was some one who does not align to grid icons, and why. Mine is no more the right or wrong way, nor yours, Ask 50 people we will probably get 25 each way. .Like the opening of tabs in the background in Konqi, to me thats boneheaded, much like the way you feel my icons in spots and not aligned is boneheaded. :D See where I am headed? Like I said if the icons are supposed to align to a grid and don't when you move them, I would call it a bug, and would submit. I don't use it that way so have no idea.
tomp01 wrote:Linux Mint 10 KDE has a special Grid View which you can select from Desktop Settings, there is no equivalent in Kubuntu.
Well then I don't know what that is, as first thing I set is folder view, and that brings back the normal desktop and I go from there. Where is this at? right click Settings, I've got Desktop (kde=folder) View, Plasma Srewed up Mode (KDE =desktop), Newspaper, and Search views? Hmmm... bet this is part of one of the other non normal desktop modes, and I would never see it. If its not in there I would seem to think that KDE took it out? ? As it seems like it would be part of the KDE libs and not something Mint was adding, could be wrong, probably am. Some one more knowledgeable on non desktop modes will have to chime in.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by rec9140 »

braingateway wrote: I think there are some misunderstanding about the concept of "desktop" in KDE4. The KDE4 try to redefine the "desktop". Now everything controlled by "plasma". And application shortcuts should be add to one of the "plasma applet", you will see, you can auto-arrange your shortcuts/icons inside the plasma applet.
Nope, no confusion. I reject the KDE view of their non traditional desktop.

Step one, first thing after an install. Right click, settings, mode, folder view, or more correctly Desktop mode. I don't use widgets and thingy mybobs and spinny wobbly etc. on my desktop... Just wallpaper, and icons. And now that I've cracked the cashew and its moved out of the way that annoying thing is gone too. Note to KDE devs, keep whacking at that mole on the IHateTheCashew! Theres others ways to crack that nut! :evil:
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by rec9140 »

braingateway wrote:The major issue with Kubuntu is following 3:
1. the KCM-grub2 is not included as default.
Noted, will add to JL, good call this should be in there.... hmmm..anything else missing?
braingateway wrote: 2. unless you remove the autoboot default item after xxx seconds or hold "SHIFT", the grub menu cannot be displayed :oops: probably it is Grub2's style? :-/
Are you saying the GRUB2 menu can not be accessed by hitting ESC With out holding shift? I am not following, and have not tried it, as I don't mess with GRUB stuff unless I really need to.
braingateway wrote:3. the closed window will still stay on the taskbar...
This was reported and is in a bug, but seems that due to *buntu release policies the fix didn't make it in time. Not touching that any further.
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by rec9140 »

dequire wrote: The only thing I see people getting hung up on from time to time is Activities.
Well I guess since I don't use the non traditional desktop or anything associated with it, I don't know what they do. I know there is something in the kicker bar, that I removed, said something about activities or something. What ever it was its gone now... guess I don't get it.... :mrgreen: :D
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Re: Release Date for Linux Mint 11 KDE

Post by Fandangio »

Maybe the mod's could ask one of the developers about this.

What is happening with the KDE version, it was meant to be in development when LMDE was finalised, which was some time ago now (in fact ages)?

It would not surprise me if it's now being held back by Mint 12 Gnome, or any other excuse that can be thought of :twisted:
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