Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz, Com

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k1ypp
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Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz, Com

Post by k1ypp » Tue Feb 02, 2016 8:46 pm

I am totally flummoxed. Is there a place that actually explains what the following things are? I've searched the forum and Google and get lots of discussions about these things, but have no idea what they are talking about:

Metacity, Metacity + Compositing, Metacity + Compton, Xfwm4, Xfwm4 + Compositing, Xfwm4 + Compton or Compiz

I currently upgraded (?) from Cinnamon 17.3 to Rosa Xfce because someone advised me that my old laptop (Toshiba Satellite, 82852/855GM Intel) would perform better. So far, the performance was much better with Cinnamon. I can get the desktop to "sorta" display properly in Xfwm4, but it goes totally black in Compiz and is highly distorted in most of the others. I haven't been able to figure out where to find a PPA that has the correct drivers for the system and maybe it will work with all of the above if it had the correct driver.

Anyway, back to the original question, is there a book, or online source that explains just what all this stuff is? I see terms like "Wobbly Windows," "tearing," "Wheezy," "LMDE" etc. I could be having some of these problems or solutions and don't even know it.

I can't be the only one that is lost, can I?

Dennis

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LinuxJim
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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by LinuxJim » Wed Feb 03, 2016 1:41 am

It can be very confusing at first, but most of the things you listed are just different window managers. Some are compositing window managers.

Maybe start here to get a handle on what these things do:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_manager
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compositi ... ow_manager
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_environment

Also, please post the output of the following command so we can help you with your specific hardware:

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxz

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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by k1ypp » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:47 pm

Thank you LinuxJim for the response. The inxi -Fxz results are what got me into trouble in the first place :D

Here's the results:

k1ypp@Satellite-A45 ~ $ inxi -Fxz
System: Host: Satellite-A45 Kernel: 3.19.0-32-generic i686 (32 bit gcc: 4.8.2)
Desktop: Xfce 4.12.2 (Gtk 2.24.23) Distro: Linux Mint 17.3 Rosa
Machine: System: TOSHIBA product: Satellite A45 v: PSA40U-0F0Q4V
Mobo: TOSHIBA model: Portable PC v: Version A0
Bios: TOSHIBA v: Version 1.20 date: 12/03/2003
CPU: Single core Mobile Intel Pentium 4 (-UP-) cache: 512 KB
flags: (pae sse sse2) bmips: 4787 speed: 2399 MHz (max)
Graphics: Card: Intel 82852/855GM Integrated Graphics Device bus-ID: 00:02.0
Display Server: X.Org 1.17.1 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
Resolution: 1024x768@60.0hz
GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel 852GM/855GM x86/MMX/SSE2
GLX Version: 1.3 Mesa 10.5.9 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio: Card Intel 82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Audio Controller
driver: snd_intel8x0 ports: 1000 1400 bus-ID: 00:1f.5
Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k3.19.0-32-generic
Network: Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros AR5212/AR5213 Wireless Network Adapter
driver: ath5k bus-ID: 01:05.0
IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
Card-2: Intel 82801DB PRO/100 VE (MOB) Ethernet Controller
driver: e100 v: 3.5.24-k2-NAPI port: cf40 bus-ID: 01:08.0
IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives: HDD Total Size: 120.0GB (5.9% used)
ID-1: /dev/sda model: ST9120822A size: 120.0GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 108G used: 4.7G (5%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1
ID-2: swap-1 size: 2.13GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda5
RAID: No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 62.0C mobo: N/A
Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info: Processes: 148 Uptime: 1 day Memory: 335.0/1998.5MB
Init: Upstart runlevel: 2 Gcc sys: 4.8.4
Client: Shell (bash 4.3.111) inxi: 2.2.28
k1ypp@Satellite-A45 ~ $

Hopefully, this will help. The worst part of all this is the first time, with 17.0 Cinnamon, I had no trouble figuring out how to install the new driver and everything worked like a charm. I was a Linux Mint believer. I would bore friends at cocktail parties with stories of the thrills of Linux. I felt like that guy (if you've seen it) in the movie "Airplane," that bored everyone to death so much they ended it all.

Thanks again. I will check out the info you pointed out.

Dennis

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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by k1ypp » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:23 pm

I looked at the links you offered LinuxJim. I was aware of some of it, but did learn quite a few things. I guess not all video is created equal. However, none of them actually give a good feel for which one is right for what sort of processor. That is what amazes me about the Linux community, there seem to be so many people that know what-goes-with-what. I can't seem to even start to figure that out. I've gone through a number of books on command line Linux, managing a Linux system, etc., but NONE of them seem to educate on how to actually build a working system, how to pick the right version and why. I feel like such a dummy.

I'm no novice to computers, I've done in-depth system work on DEC VAX, Alpha, Unix (even Ultrix), DOS, Windows and so on, but it wasn't a Tower of Babel. Everything had a hierarchy and structure, everything seems so random in Linux. Figuring out a simple thing like video drivers, and which version of a version one is to use can be exasperating.

Thanks again for helping.

Dennis

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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by LinuxJim » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:54 pm

k1ypp wrote:I'm no novice to computers, I've done in-depth system work on DEC VAX, Alpha, Unix (even Ultrix), DOS, Windows and so on, but it wasn't a Tower of Babel. Everything had a hierarchy and structure, everything seems so random in Linux. Figuring out a simple thing like video drivers, and which version of a version one is to use can be exasperating.

Thanks again for helping.

Dennis
I started in the PDP-11 world, with Fortran and Macro Assembler. Later switched to hardware design of QBUS boards and embedded data acquisition systems. Wrote a real-time DOS clone that swayed me back into software, and I've straddled the hardware/software fence ever since.

Anyway, I understand the 'randomness' you describe. Mint is not the best distribution when it comes to documentation. Much of what is available is outdated by several years. It takes some sleuthing to do even simple things, which is ironic for a distribution that's supposed to be newbie-friendly.

Arch Linux has superb documentation, but is not for those unfamiliar with Linux. OpenSUSE also has great documentation - and is much closer to Mint as far as user-friendliness goes. For someone like you, who prefers structure and hierarchy, I would recommend OpenSUSE, or possibly Fedora.

As far as your hardware goes, it does look a little long in the tooth. XFCE or MATE would be a better fit for a desktop environment than Cinnamon or KDE. Stay away from Compiz altogether - it will use up your resources very fast. Even better would be to forego the modern DE altogether and use a regular window manager - like we did with Motif in the old days. I would put as much RAM in that thing as is possible, too. You really need a minimum of 2GB these days for a GUI environment. Your system probably maxes out at 2 or 3GB.

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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by k1ypp » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:31 pm

Ahhh, the good old days of DEC. Yes, this system I'm using is very dated, but I use it as a dedicated system for my ham radio stuff, and it works great. I haven't had any real trouble until I hit 17.3. I'm certain I could jump to some other version of Linux, such as you suggest. Either that, or just jump back to 17.1 or even 15 or so. It does already have 2 GB of RAM. Then again, maybe I should get something more up to date for hardware, I just hate to dump something that works so well otherwise, its the environmentalist in me.

I really wish I could recall what it was I did to fix the video driver situation in 17.1, it worked really well, even if it wasn't supposed to.

Oh well...

Dennis

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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by LinuxJim » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:56 pm

Ahh. You've run into a fellow ham operator - W7JLL. 73!

First thing to try and solve your video problem:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-intel
If that doesn't help, there is a special xserver for your specific graphics chip:
(NOTE: This info is fairly old - the following may have been backported into the 'official' intel driver, above, by now)

Code: Select all

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:glasen/intel-driver
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade

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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by austin.texas » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:32 am

k1ypp wrote:I am totally flummoxed. Is there a place that actually explains what the following things are? I've searched the forum and Google and get lots of discussions about these things, but have no idea what they are talking about:

Metacity, Metacity + Compositing, Metacity + Compton, Xfwm4, Xfwm4 + Compositing, Xfwm4 + Compton or Compiz
Glossary of technology terms - AfterDawn
(could help - but missing Metacity and xfwm4)
Mint 18.2 Cinnamon, Quad core AMD A8-3870 with Radeon HD Graphics 6550D, 8GB DDR3, Ralink RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI
Linux Linx 2018

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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by k1ypp » Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:33 am

I tried the following, as suggested, and get the following:

sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg-video-intel
(Note: I am getting the 'Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages' error message."

So I submitted: sudo aptitude install xserver-xorg-video-intel

Seems to be working.

I then tried:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:glasen/intel-driver

and get:

'This PPA does not support trusty'
Cannot add PPA: ''This PPA does not support trusty''.

I'm at a loss, what is one to do with that?

Dennis

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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by austin.texas » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:19 am

k1ypp wrote: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:glasen/intel-driver
and get:
'This PPA does not support trusty'
Cannot add PPA: ''This PPA does not support trusty''.
I'm at a loss, what is one to do with that?
If you check this → https://launchpad.net/~glasen/+archive/ ... tel-driver
it lists Ubuntu 10.04, 10.10, 11.04, 11.10, and 12.04. Mint 17 is based on Ubuntu 14.04 (trusty), which is not supported by glasen.
You are using outdated instructions. You will have to find some other way.
Mint 18.2 Cinnamon, Quad core AMD A8-3870 with Radeon HD Graphics 6550D, 8GB DDR3, Ralink RT2561/RT61 802.11g PCI
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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by LinuxJim » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:26 am

k1ypp wrote: (Note: I am getting the 'Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages' error message."
Sometimes 'sudo apt-get autoremove' will help with that error. You can also launch Synaptic and tell it to fix the broken packages. If neither of those work, post results of:

Code: Select all

dpkg --get-selections | grep hold
k1ypp wrote: 'This PPA does not support trusty'
Cannot add PPA: ''This PPA does not support trusty''.

I'm at a loss, what is one to do with that?
Ignore it. The PPA maintainer doesn't support the Debian version (trusty) that Ubuntu (and Mint) pull from. I had a feeling that one may be too old, as stated above.

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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by MtnDewManiac » Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:51 am

LinuxJim wrote:the Debian version (trusty)
:roll: .

Regards,
MDM
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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by k1ypp » Mon Feb 08, 2016 6:09 pm

LinuxJim:
An interesting symptom in all this is that I can start out with a perfectly fine desktop image and then sometime, a few hours later, the image will distort and I will choose another image or mode and clear it up for a while. I suspect that some screen saver timer or display timer must kick in and then it never recovers from it properly.

The processes that run within the desktop, such as the ham radio FLdigi seem to display just fine, it is the desktop that has display problems. Once in a while one of the apps, such as FLdigi will lock up, but not too often. When that happens the only escape seems to be a hard reboot with the power switch.

I started working on it again as you suggested but somehow the system got to the point when I rebooted I would get the following message:

MDM: Xserver not found : /usr/bin/X :0_audit0-auth /var/lib/mdm/:0.Xau
Error: Command could not be executed.
Please install the Xserver or correct MDM configuration and reset MDM.

I'm in over my head. It was time to punt (even though I don't watch American football). I decided that this system just isn't going to handle XFCE, so I looked around to see what else there is. I found LXDE and have the 17.3 version of it. I totally wiped out XFCE and installed over it. So far, no video problems at all. I don't know what the difference is, but it seems to be working. It isn't as pretty as Cinnamon, but working vs. pretty is a simple decision to make.

I haven't played around with the themes yet, maybe there is something that looks more like Cinnamon, we'll see.

For the most part, I guess we can close this case, even though it wasn't solved. Still, it would be nice to see someone write a book that explains all of these options and show what works with which version, that is a real jungle to navigate. I'm in awe of those of you that have that knowledge and I hope to one day learn the secret handshake!

Thanks again. Oh, I would encourage those that search and find this discussion to take a look at LXDE. It is created to work on older systems and it does appear to actually do that.

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Re: Is there aplace that explains Metacity, Compton, Compiz,

Post by unimatrix725 » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:18 am

austin.texas wrote:
k1ypp wrote: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:glasen/intel-driver
and get:
'This PPA does not support trusty'
Cannot add PPA: ''This PPA does not support trusty''.
I'm at a loss, what is one to do with that?
If you check this → https://launchpad.net/~glasen/+archive/ ... tel-driver
it lists Ubuntu 10.04, 10.10, 11.04, 11.10, and 12.04. Mint 17 is based on Ubuntu 14.04 (trusty), which is not supported by glasen.
You are using outdated instructions. You will have to find some other way.
I have an old MacMini2,1 for media in bedroom. I use Oibaf PPA.

https://launchpad.net/~oibaf/+archive/u ... cs-drivers
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:oibaf/graphics-drivers
sudo apt-get update

It is easy as can be to get up and running. Do a update then dist-upgrade,reboot and done. You may need to config file noted on the ppa page. The PPA is updated all the way to Xenial. I did not need to but saw dramatic increase afterwards. I install this PPA on all my customers laptops, if they opt to try linux.

As for info What I cannot find via Mint I turn to Arch Wiki:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/window_manager
Its a great place for anything linux.
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