Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

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xenopeek
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Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by xenopeek » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:50 pm

Microsoft today confirmed earlier rumors that Edge web browser will be based on Chromium: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperi ... aboration/
VentureBeat has a more detailed article with feedback from Google and Mozilla: https://venturebeat.com/2018/12/06/micr ... and-macos/

In short:
  • Edge is going to use the Blink page rendering engine and V8 javascript engine from the Chromium project;
  • Currently Edge is only available on Windows 10 but the Chromium based version will also come to Windows 7 and 8.
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rene
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rene » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:38 pm

Given what that is going to mean in the sense of the compatibility gold-standard on any platform, I'd not be too certain of Firefox' future...

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by michael louwe » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:28 pm

M$ will save a lot of browser development and maintenance costs by going for a new browser based on free open-source Chromium to replace Edge.
....... Windows and Linux users can already install and run the original Chromium browser. Same for the Chrome browser. Why would they want to run a proprietary Chromium fork from M$ which will likely be integrated into Win 10.?

By cornering the mobile OS, browser, search, mapping and online video(Youtube) markets = cornering the ad market, Google has more annual revenue and profits than M$ who only dominates the enterprise-desktop market with Windows. If M$ loses the enterprise-desktop market with her unappealing Win 10, that will be the end of her, which may happen soon after Jan 2020 - the EOL for Win 7.

Maybe M$ will also go for a new Windows OS based on free open-source Debian - to be called Windian, in honor of CEO Nadella.*sarcasm*

Or M$ may acquire Canonical Inc/Ubuntu to replace Win 10.

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rene » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:12 pm

michael louwe wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:28 pm
Why would they want to run a proprietary Chromium fork from M$ which will likely be integrated into Win 10.?
They're not forking, but other than that and as to the Windows users part of that quote, clearly because they don't give a rat's ass about it being proprietary; would in fact conversely quite welcome a standard installed, widely web-compatible, supported and with Chrome-extensions compatible browser --- if they're above the level of simply using whatever Microsoft feeds them in the first place, of course.

I've in the context of my own remark above just installed Chromium; seeing as how its rendering and JavaScript engine is going to be the standard for some 85% of users overnight, browsers based on other engines --- other than Safari's 5% until Apple decides to go the same way --- are doomed to compatibility chasing. Basically, we'll be back in the years when Internet Explorer dictated the web, and non-Windows users suffered inaccessible sites as a matter of course.

OK, given that Chromium is open source, maybe the chase is going to be easier this time... but I still already did that once, am not going to do it again. Go Chromium...

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by ugly » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:18 pm

Seems to be a cost-cutting move.

It seemed like the general consensus was that Edge was actually pretty fast. And the real problem was that Microsoft was just slow with rolling out any features and improvements to the interface. So jumping over to Chromium doesn't mean they're going to get a faster browser. It doesn't really solve their real issue.

There has always been a concern about rendering engine mono-culture in web browsers. IE caused huge compatibility problems years ago. Webkit on mobile sort of did too. Now we're heading towards the same direction with Chromium. And I think a browser rendering engine is too much of a major task to undertake. Too much work before you can even get a product out there. When Vivaldi first started, they said that as much as they'd like to build their own, they wouldn't be able to without having a big team dedicated to just the engine.

And even if a team could do an incredible job and make a viable competitor, there's little reward to doing so. The average user really doesn't give a shit about what browser they use, or even know if they're using 'foxfire' or Internet Explorer. And my impression is that any user that does pay attention to which browser they use is too tied into the browser they use to even bother trying an alternative.

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by BigEasy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:56 am

xenopeek wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:50 pm
Microsoft today confirmed earlier rumors that Edge web browser will be based on Chromium
Firefox is next. I bet.
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by catweazel » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:12 am

michael louwe wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:28 pm
Why would they want to run a proprietary Chromium fork from M$
And the evidence that there will be "a proprietary Chromium fork from M$" is?
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by xenopeek » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:52 am

catweazel wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:12 am
And the evidence that there will be "a proprietary Chromium fork from M$" is?
The Chromium project isn't free software; it's using an open source license that permits sub-licensing. Almost all the Chromium derivatives do so and are closed source.

Perhaps Microsoft will surprise but reading their intent document for developers (here https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdge ... /README.md) all they are talking about is that they will be contributing to upstream Chromium. Not that Edge will be open source.

michael louwe wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:28 pm
M$ will save a lot of browser development and maintenance costs by going for a new browser based on free open-source Chromium to replace Edge.
....... Windows and Linux users can already install and run the original Chromium browser. Same for the Chrome browser. Why would they want to run a proprietary Chromium fork from M$ which will likely be integrated into Win 10.?
You didn't read the bits I shared. They will only be using Chromium's page rendering and javascript engines. That's "under the hood" stuff. The rest of the browser will be built by them. And it's coming to Windows 7 and 8.
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by xenopeek » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:04 am

Mozilla's response to the announcement: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2018/12/06/goodbye-edge/
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rambo919 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:19 am

I still stick to FF but at this point it's mostly out of brand loyalty and the fact that vivaldi just does not really press my buttons the right way somehow. FF REALLY made a mistake when they dropped the old addon standard and the addon devs have been extra slow in adapting with some even saying that it's probably impossible to do on the new standard what they managed with the old standard but that might just be defeatism from being punched in the gut.

A second mistake was to just assume that there were actual alternatives to old addons. As an example most people like me used flashgot for it's advanced bulk forwarding of any links to ANY download manager in general NOT as a media trawler of which there are many many alternatives useless for that functionality. Flashgot was so good in what it did no one bothered to compete maybe I dunno. At this point I have a portable old FF solely for use of flashgot when I need to download a lot of HTTP link stuff.... somehow selecting each individual file out of 50+ does NOT appeal to me especially if half of them need to go to different locations.

Chromium is fine enough but personally I truely dislike Chrome and it's need for you to log in to a friggin browser.

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rene » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:36 am

rambo919 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:19 am
[ ... ] but personally I truely dislike Chrome and it's need for you to log in to a friggin browser.
You don't though. Only if you want e.g. password or bookmark synchronization, and that's no different from Firefox Accounts.

What annoys me about Chrome and, supposedly, Chromium is the standard Google "choice is confusing" averageness attitude, but don't expect that will in the end be/remain enough to (again) suffer through potential daily web incompatibilities with a non-Blink/V8 browser.

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by xenopeek » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:40 am

rambo919 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:19 am
FF REALLY made a mistake when they dropped the old addon standard
While I disagree it was a mistake to migrate Firefox to a new extension architecture (like, here we are with 16 core desktop processors becoming mainstream and you'd want to go back to a single threaded web browser? No thanks :)) it raises and interesting question how, if at all, Edge extensions will be impacted by this change. As I understand it the Edge extensions architecture is already closer to what Google uses, but still.
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rene » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:43 am

According to your own second link, Microsoft will fully or near fully adopt Chrome extensions as is...

Re-reading that, if your worry is in fact about current Edge extension specifically, the answer would seem to be that their 2 users are fine with switching if need be: I just called them to confirm...

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rambo919 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:51 am

xenopeek wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:40 am
rambo919 wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:19 am
FF REALLY made a mistake when they dropped the old addon standard
While I disagree it was a mistake to migrate Firefox to a new extension architecture (like, here we are with 16 core desktop processors becoming mainstream and you'd want to go back to a single threaded web browser? No thanks :)) it raises and interesting question how, if at all, Edge extensions will be impacted by this change. As I understand it the Edge extensions architecture is already closer to what Google uses, but still.
It's not so much that I disagree with migration as that I disagree with the method of migration, they simply underestimated how entrenched people (devs) were in the old system. Improvement is always good but shock therapy is only advisable if you are VERY sure of overwhelmingly positive results otherwise it's a total gamble.... and 16 cores mainstream? I'm still seeing 4 core machines with 8GB max as the norm wherever I look barring gamers, 16 core 32GB "mid-range" PC's are still WAY off into the future.

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by michael louwe » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:16 am

xenopeek wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:52 am
michael louwe wrote: ⤴Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:28 am
M$ will save a lot of browser development and maintenance costs by going for a new browser based on free open-source Chromium to replace Edge.
....... Windows and Linux users can already install and run the original Chromium browser. Same for the Chrome browser. Why would they want to run a proprietary Chromium fork from M$ which will likely be integrated into Win 10.?
You didn't read the bits I shared. They will only be using Chromium's page rendering and javascript engines. That's "under the hood" stuff. The rest of the browser will be built by them. And it's coming to Windows 7 and 8.
By not having to spend money on "under the hood" stuffs for her New-Edge browser, M$ will save some costs and fire more people. M$ could have gone back to an "Old"-Edge browser based on Internet Explorer 11 but that would not have save costs and allow the CEO to fire more people.

Yes, I missed the more detailed bits that you shared, ie I only read the 1st brief reports about this matter at zdnet and news.softpedia. Sorry.
.
.
Chromium is an open-source Web browser project started by Google, to provide the source code for the proprietary Google Chrome browser. The two browsers share the majority of code and features, though there are some minor differences in features and logos, and they have different licensing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromium_(web_browser)
Browsers based on Chromium = Brave, Opera, Vivaldi, Slimjet, etc.

As for close-source or proprietary Linux software, remember, there are non-free and trademarked RHEL, Ubuntu Advantage, Zorin OS Ultimate, CrossOver, etc. IOW, even Linux Mint has the legal right to start charging fees for her OS software, even though LM is now free for users. This could happen if desktop Linux commands 90% of the world market, like M$-Windows today. If this happens, I do not mind paying around US$50 for a Retail LM license that is as user-friendly as Windows in terms of GUI-based tools, eg cloning and system imaging tools..

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by BigEasy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:43 pm

xenopeek wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:04 am
Mozilla's response to the announcement: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2018/12/06/goodbye-edge/
All about why we (Mozilla) is better.
Сorrect reading is: we are very afraid.
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by xenopeek » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:32 pm

And we should be afraid for the same reasons.
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rene » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:11 pm

xenopeek wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:32 pm
And we should be afraid for the same reasons.
Frankly I'm not so sure about that. In what manner do we suffer when an open-source engine unites the web?

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by BigEasy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:55 pm

xenopeek wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:32 pm
And we should be afraid for the same reasons.
Why we should?
1.Crhromium!=Google Chrome. So Chromium based Edge is not Google.
2. Mozilla itself done everithing possible to lose reputation.
3. Mozilla afraid afraid of losing marketshare (read money) not our freedom, security, e.t.c.
Nowdays my browser is Palemoon.
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by thx-1138 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:22 pm

rene wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:11 pm
xenopeek wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:32 pm
And we should be afraid for the same reasons.
Frankly I'm not so sure about that. In what manner do we suffer when an open-source engine unites the web?
...was reading this article earlier today, it appears to make the round in social networking platforms...
It's quite spot on, and yeap, i'd agree it's more or less 'Game Over' for Mozilla.

But the thing is not a this-engine vs that-other-engine, or even more one-engine-to-rule-them-all vs numerous ones.
A single engine 'per se' could possibly be just fine 'as is',
eliminating as well those absolutely irrelevant under every aspect dinosaurs,
that even on 2018 insist of maintaining...XUL (that Mozilla itself has depreciated - referring to some Firefox clones / forks).
Nothing wrong with such per se...in a sense, quite the contrary.
The issue from now on would be the even more extended control,
that Google will quite likely have in defining the web standards per their own internal interests.

I copy / paste from the linked article above for the sake of simplicity / for those into tldr...
The longer term faith of the open web, it hangs in the balance.
I don’t believe implementers can break the dominance anytime soon via an actual browser or browser engine,
which is why I’ll reiterate what I already said:
there must be equal representation in the process where web standards get created,
as well as in the decision making process where priorities for implementation get set.

We’d then have less engines, basically only one, yet what gets build for it in which order would be shared.
An open decision making process, followed by implementation in a single engine. It would be a kind-of open web.

No, not even that is ideal, I know. I’m keeping it real.
A kind-of open web is superior to the situation of having a single engine with a single private organization calling the shots.
The idealistic scenario of a multi-engine open web is dead or dying, as discussed above.
The underlined / bold emphasis is strictly mine...
And indeed, the 'web standards' part above, somehow brought to mind the not-so-old story with W3C & EME... :?
https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/ne ... x-with-drm
If such previous attempts / proposals at defining 'web standards' were already successful,
even when there existed other players with different implementations that were still to be taken seriously as 'competitors',
then surely things feel somewhat dystopic from here on.
Remains to be seen...

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