Investing in Linux

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frank392
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Post by frank392 »

Hi
you may use Paypal and make a donation to Mint Linux :wink:
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clem
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Post by clem »

mintero: to be brief, I believe Linux is the only operating system that has a future for personal computing. It might take a while but it will eventually become the standard. My personal opinion.
AlsaPhil

Post by AlsaPhil »

Clem said:

(...) I believe Linux is the only operating system that has a future for personal computing (...)

I believe it too, when the Linux dev begin finally to listen what user wanna have on their PC.
I believe, besides, in relative little, 100%_flexible and more or less self-sufficient communities with own brand and interests.
I believe, therefore, in LinuxMint, which is on the right "political" way :D

zolly said:

There are some problems:
1) no hardware support from producers
2) software doesn't coverage all domains (home, games, ...)
3) some good distro will become commercial (free but with limitations)

:?:

and
4) fear that the linux is to difficult to learn and to use

That is definitely wrong: from the user's side, Linux is much more logical, intuitive and intelligent where Microsoft shows more and more an illogical logic.
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Post by npap »

I would add one more problem to Zolly's list. :)
Linux is lacking in the Spyware, Malware. and other Warez.

Quote: some good distro will become commercial (free but with limitations)
Answer: Why not Linux Mint? :) :) :)
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Post by scorp123 »

zolly wrote: There are some problems:
1) no hardware support from producers
Not correct. NVidia, ATI, Intel, AMD, SUN, HP, IBM, Linksys ... are all providing fully supported drivers for Linux, or in the cases of IBM, HP, SUN and Intel and many others they are even constantly contributing to the Linux kernel itself. Others will have to follow sooner or later. Companies such as Linksys use Linux on their router products (e.g. the now famous WRT-54G series!) and even allow you to "hack" their products, expand and even replace the firmware with alternatives of your choice.
zolly wrote:2) software doesn't coverage all domains (home, games, ...)
Please be specific. I use Linux since 1996 at home. So I guess I have been missing something? :lol: For games here and there I use a Windows partition, but all serious work is done on Linux and only on Linux. Besides, let's be honest: If you really want a gaming experience without hassles, without usability and user-friendliness issues, without bluescreens and driver problems, then there is hardly an alternative to a real game console, e.g. Nintendo Wii (which is a lot of fun for families) or Sony PS2 / PS3 and --dare I say it?-- Microsoft Xbox 360 ... The PC as gaming platform is way too expensive and the constant hardware upgrade frenzy means that you constantly would have to spend a lot of money in order to keep your PC up-to-date. That just plain sucks. Look at the PS2. How old is it now? And still you can get new games for it that work just perfect and that are hassle-free and a lot of fun.
zolly wrote: 3) some good distro will become commercial (free but with limitations)
Please be more specific. All the commercial distros out there are commercial because they (had to) include proprietary stuff which cannot be redistributed for free (e.g. Active Directory integration, Windows Domain logon integration, etc.) but these things are only interesting to classic corporate users which are still thinking of Linux as a "different" sort of Windows ... which is plain wrong in my opinion. Linux is not Windows.

zolly wrote: 4) fear that the linux is to difficult to learn and to use
That's FUD and nonsense. It's only "difficult" for you because you can't let go of your DOS and Windows way of thinking. Total noobs who have never been exposed to Windows before find it very easy to get around a UNIX-like OS such as Linux. Yes it's complex, of course it is. But it is very logic, there is help if you know how to invoke it (e.g. the "man" commands) and even if you cause any error, the error message you get is very precise in its description of the problem. And if you give a total noob (e.g. my wife!) a easy to use GUI that they can configure any way they like (KDE in my wife's case!) they will never ever even see the complexity of the shell commands underneath. They just login, and everything just works. I setup my wife's desktop in 2003 when we got married and the machine is still working. No viruses, no malware, no spyware, no fragmentation to worry about. All I have to do here and there is to update the packages, that's it.

I fail to see where the difficulties are?


Regards,
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Re: Investing in Linux

Post by scorp123 »

npap wrote:I would add one more problem to Zolly's list. :)
Linux is lacking in the Spyware, Malware. and other Warez.
Not true! :evil: You can fully contribute to the pool of zombie machines running spam bots if you run Windows in a VirtualBox or VMware environment. Thanks to this you can run any spyware and spam bot you (don't) want even on Linux machines. Some viruses are reported to run successfully even under WINE, CrossOver Office and Cedega. The only problem right now is that they cannot harm the operating system because under WINE et al there are no Windows operating system files to be infected. But thanks to the efforts of Novell's and Microsoft's cooperation I expect that this problem will soon be solved too and we Linux users will be able to enjoy widespread virus infections on Novell's Linux products as well ...

I am just kidding of course :lol:
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Post by npap »

Hello Scorp123,
Nobody could have done it better :) Not even a lawyer!
Brrrrrr! I am already itching all over with all the bugs around.
But I hope that Clem will find a good disinfectant for us poor Linux Mint users :)
AlsaPhil

Post by AlsaPhil »

Some may disagree with me
YES
AlsaPhil

Post by AlsaPhil »

@mintero (no I don't troll)
I can invest 50k €. I have marketing skills, I am linux user since three years but dont have technical knowledge
...and no business idea :lol:
If I find a distro that my grand-mother is able to understand and manage, I will believe that this situation can really change
...begin here :wink: may be you are on the right way (I am very serious)

Begin to think deeply about all you say here and/or here...

Marketing skills = analysis, reflection, tests, management talent and a lot of experience :wink:
Without a rigorous marketing strategy I dont see how linux can become a popular OS with the ambition to be one day a standard
... should be a very bad marketing positioning for Linux :lol:
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Post by npap »

What's the matter with you guys! :)
You think that Greeks are only good in the restaurant business?

My God ! Who do you think built the Parthenon?
AlsaPhil

Post by AlsaPhil »

:lol:
You manage a project or you dont manage it. I dont like bazaar. At my age I dont need to do my personal revolution, or search an identity or religion in linux.
Business plans must be rigorous in order to be succesful. Of course, this is my personal opinion
and I respect per ethics your opinion, mintero, but your dissertation definitely do not deal with the subject :lol:
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Post by scorp123 »

mintero wrote: I said to a developer: "there is no superuser mode entry to edit system files".
He laughed: "no, that is not a probleme. The user has just to hit: sudo gedit filename"
He was a good developer but not a good marketer. For 21 century's modern and ordinary people the terminal is archaeology.
That's were you are wrong. Typical Windows "point and click" mind set. But even if: here on openSUSE 10.2 I have a menu entry saying "Open FileManager in super user mode". I don't know if that menu entry is present in Mint, Ubuntu, etc. or if it isn't. But it's there on some distros. So you can have your point and click stuff as super user if you want to. But you don't get the point: Starting GUI programs such as a File Manager as "root" is *dangerous*
... UNIX-like operating systems are not babysitting you. You are supposed to know what you do. So if by accident you do a drag & drop as "root" it's bye bye Kansas for your system.

Using the terminal commands is safer! And more powerful too!

This has nothing to do with "archaelogogy".

mintero wrote: For me, the terminal should be used only for diagnostic purposes.
Maybe you'd be better off with an Apple computer and Mac OS X? Or even Winoze Vi$ta? Nobody is forcing you at gunpoint to use Linux, you know :wink:

mintero wrote: Linux is not intuitive.
Au contraire, it is!
mintero wrote: Tell a newbie ordinary user to install a linux distro and complete it with what is needed for his/her home use needs without reading manuals and posting to forums for help.
And this proves what? Nothing. You can do the same experiment with Windows. Most users wouldn't know frak about how to install Windows if it wasn't already (by misuse of Microsoft's monopoly) pre-installed for them.

The only OS a real noob can hope to successfully install without knowing anything seems to be Mac OS X.

mintero wrote: It will be the hell for them with apps without GUI or menu entry, technical language, multicomponent apps, securing the system, editing system files, partitions and mountpoints etc
It takes much time to learn how to manage this system well. So, while it is a good OS, it is not very attractive for the ordinary user.
Not true. It's just a matter of picking the right distro which should come with some sane defaults.
mintero wrote: Some may disagree with me
Some?? :wink:
mintero wrote: but i prefer to see the reality face to face. Windows wins about 95% for home use and linux about 1%. OK, Windows comes pre-installed, but who prevents you from installing linux if you like it?
Nobody. And that's why those figures you quote are to be taken "cum grano salis". Nobody can really know how many of those systems that originally had Windows pre-installed get formatted again to make room for Linux.

HP just recently reported that they made an astonishing profit of 25 million dollars by supporting the free Debian distribution. Now there is food for thought ...
mintero wrote: I have being doing my little survey because i am interested as investor. My conclusions for the present are frustrating.
You have to free yourself from your current mindset of thinking. That's your problem, not the problem of the "Linuxians"
mintero wrote: Linuxians live in their dreamland.
Aren't we all entitled to our dreams?
mintero wrote: Without a rigorous marketing strategy I dont see how linux can become a popular OS with the ambition to be one day a standard.
It doesn't have to. Contrary to what some believe the goal of Linux is not to overtake the world or to become a "popular OS". People don't use it out of this motivation. They use it because they like it, because it is free, because it works, because it doesn't tell them what they can do and what they can't do. The rest will come all alone by itself. Or maybe it won't. It does not matter. If you want to invest in Linux because you hope to become rich one day it is you who lives in dreamland, not us :lol:
mintero wrote: Its superiority is proven in the server market where it beats Windows. Unfortunately the home users are not network admins.The solution is a simple, intuitive out-of-the-box edition.
With "intuitive" you mean "dumbed down"? Well, there is Linspire, there is Xandros, and some others. Did the "intuitiveness" of those distros help them become popular? No, it didn't. My theory: People are fed up with dumbed down operating systems. What people want is something like SUSE or Ubuntu or Fedora: Easy to get in but with all the options open. That's why dumbed down distros will never become popular.

Linux is not WIndows.


Repeat after me. Repeat it 1000 times. People finding Windows too dumbed down will switch to Linux or one of the BSD's. People finding Linux "too hard" ought to stay on Windows. People unwilling to let go of their obsolete Windows and DOS knowledge should not switch to Linux. With a mindset like that Linux will never be what they want. Maybe they should try Apple and Mac OS instead?
mintero wrote: If I find a distro that my grand-mother is able to understand and manage, I will believe that this situation can really change.
Don't underestimate your grandmother :wink:
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Post by nick »

mintero wrote:
If I find a distro that my grand-mother is able to understand and manage, I will believe that this situation can really change.

Six months ago, my 74 year old neigbour, a grandmother
with all of 3 years computing experience, came to me with her
"infected windows box" for the third time.
I gave her a choice, take it to a shop and pay
for it to be cleaned up or I will install Linux
She chose Linux, I installed Suse 10.1 with KDE.
and told her to come to me anytime she had a
question, she has asked TWO questions.
Also in her opinion it is far superior to "that
old windows" :)
Nick
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Post by frank392 »

Hi Scorp123,
:D I agree with you 120%, I hardly agree with you but this time I do!!
Thank you Very much.
frank392
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Post by frank392 »

hey Mintero,

"You manage a project or you dont manage it. I dont like bazaar. At my age I dont need to do my personal revolution, or search an identity or religion in linux."

You got it all wrong!! fist of all you would never "manage" Linux so I guess............. :arrow:

PS. and Linux is NOT a "bazaar"
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Post by scorp123 »

frank392 wrote:Hi Scorp123,
:D I agree with you 120%, I hardly agree with you but this time I do!!
Thank you Very much.
Thank you as well :wink:
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Post by frank392 »

hey mintero

Mintero wrote:
I can't stand that a maniac linuxian, just because he has more technical knowledge than me gives me a miserable page of command line instructions for how to compile a tarball (yes in some cases you still need to compile).
How could you insult the people that help you out solving your problems :evil:

you are a LOOSER big time you can't even sell you ideas to us.
and one thing that we have are morals and values, we do not sell and we are NOT for sale!, now we Know you. B...h
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Post by scorp123 »

mintero wrote: If windows has chosen the simplicity-strategy and I choose this strategy too, that doesnt mean I have a windows mindset, but that I have the sense of the reality.
To be debated ... :wink: Because as I see it Linux is "hard" for you simply because it is *different* ... is that the core of your theory why Linux is "hard" and "not intuitive"? Take my wife for example. She's a total computer noob. In other words: She was never ever exposed to Windows, or Microsoft products, or the Windows-way of doing things. Result? She thinks Linux is easy !!!

One time when we were at a friend's place and my wife and the other guy's lady wanted to check some stuff on the web, and so they were browsing around ... and promptly caught some stupid virus.

I had one hell of a hard time explaining my wife "Look darling, this is Windows, and in Windows you simply *MUST NOT* click on stuff if you're not sure about the origin .... " Her reply to this was: "But I wasn't working as administrator!!" (good girl ... she is a noob but even she understands this concept !!)

Again ... which one is "harder"? Especially "harder to maintain", "harder to keep safe", "harder to explain" because of all the illogic BS in there? :wink:
mintero wrote: There is enough place in linuxland for both of us.
Of course. I never ever said anything opposite. But there is a slight difference I think: I am almost a native of this land here, where as you are somewhere lost in the woods searching for the highway that will take you pronto and subito to from LinuxLand to DollarLand $$$

While this route is certainly possible it takes certain "driving skills" to get there, if I may say so.
mintero wrote: And for other people who have different opinions. Linux is in evolution.
And it always will be, because of it's open source nature.
mintero wrote: Most people who will join it, will see it as an alternative to Windows. So I am adapting my strategy to that direction.
While it certainly is an alternative to Windows, it is not the same as Windows. I think that's a part of the problem you (but also others) have as well: You expect the alternative to Windows to behave the exactly same as Windows and you expect from it that it follows the same (business) rules ... I am not so sure that this will work, if I may be honest with you :wink:
mintero wrote: I am talking business and not philosophy in this thread.
You nontheless shouldn't ignore that philosophy part, in my opinion.
mintero wrote: As about Xandros etc, many could be the reasons they failed to make a popular OS. Looking towards the good direction doesnt mean the result is garanteed.
But that's the point! Who said they were going into a "good" direction? The absence of success in their case proves they were wrong so far, regardless of what they thought. :wink:
AlsaPhil

Post by AlsaPhil »

I have a project for a more friendly linux. I need encouragement and not that frustration
That is positive! Bravo!
Come on and let's go :wink:
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Post by clem »

A company was going to be started in Denmark and sell computers online with Linux Mint Bianca pre-installed in them.

For us, as a distribution this was a very interesting partnership. We are looking for OEM companies simply because:

- we would like people to have the possibility of buying computer with Mint installed in it.
- we do not want to start doing this ourselves (it's a different market, a different job and we're not good at this).

Mintero: if you have the money the skills and the motivation to start an OEM company, we're definitely interested in hearing about this.

Clem
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