Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

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Reorx
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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by Reorx »

dXTC wrote:
Ark987 wrote:Cannot Be Stopped?!? I don't know how many of you work in hospital/healthcare IT, but trust me, the LAST thing you want is a rogue automatic Windows update rendering a life-critical patient care application useless. I've witnessed this firsthand-- and the results are not pretty.
On the second page of the article you linked, there is a brief mention of Win 10 Enterprise edition (designed for corporate use - 10 year support!) which can be configured or updated any way you like (just like Win 7 & 8.x)... Just sayin'...
Last edited by Reorx on Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by 3mutts »

That speak could mean 2 things:

1. Updates are only provided for 2-4 years 2 for home 4 for enterprise/pro

2. Customers will replace machines every 2-4 years and therefore make up deferred revenue

I will let you decide which one it is.

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by dXTC »

Reorx wrote:
dXTC wrote:
Ark987 wrote:Cannot Be Stopped?!? I don't know how many of you work in hospital/healthcare IT, but trust me, the LAST thing you want is a rogue automatic Windows update rendering a life-critical patient care application useless. I've witnessed this firsthand-- and the results are not pretty.
On the second page of the article you linked, there is a brief mention of Win 10 Enterprise edition (designed for corporate use - 10 year support!) which can be configured or updated any way you like (just like Win 7 & 8.x)... Just sayin'...
Windows Enterprise is for large-scale corporate installations as you've said, and its configuration is dictated by that business's Windows domain controller(s), which can overwrite changes you've made to your local client when you next log in. There is also a server that acts as a KMS (Key Management Server), which is an authentication process that listens for and acknowledges "pings" from associated client computers; this takes the place of locally-stored product keys. If a particular client has not successfully "phoned home" to its designated authentication server within a set time (usually six months), that client's local Windows installation deactivates itself, forcing an OS reinstall.

The per-seat cost for Enterprise is about as expensive as the costliest consumer version at low-volume purchasing levels, and is missing some of the consumer-level bells and whistles. Cost savings for larger companies are realized using Volume Licensing, which requires the above KMS starting with Windows 7.

These considerations and others make Enterprise a bit too much hassle for the average home user.
craig10x wrote:But the plan is first microsoft tests stuff, then it goes to the insiders then to stable users (and probably with the fast and slow track or "ring" as they call it) i described above....so, that way, by the time it gets to you, it should be pretty bug free...
When a patient's life is on the line, "should be pretty bug free" just doesn't quite cut it.

It's only slightly less convenient for the home user. If a mandated update to your browser or to some Windows component breaks a game or application that worked before in Win10, you're hosed-- there is no uninstallation of the offending update. Even using System Restore (if it works) will only be temporary, as Windows will attempt to reinstall the update the next time it realizes it isn't in place.
Last edited by dXTC on Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

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craig10x wrote:Actually, i wouldn't make any assumption that the information in that article is at all accurate...it is really more speculation then anything else...you know, sensational stories always attract a lot of attention...nothing that it said has been confirmed...actually, it doesn't sound very logical they would do that...they aren't that stupid to think that windows users are going to go along with that...(2 years of updates and then you go on a subscription fee service)...just wouldn't be good business policy, actually...and would hit on them rather hard, so not worth it to them, in the long run...

Yes, it is true about the updates being automatic and you can't stop them..although (and again this has not been CONFIRMED) that the released version might offer the "fast ring" and "slow ring" set up as they have in the testing (preview version)...which means while you can't stop them you can delay them somewhat so that the fast ringers check them out first (if you select slow ring).

But the plan is first microsoft tests stuff, then it goes to the insiders then to stable users (and probably with the fast and slow track or "ring" as they call it) i described above....so, that way, by the time it gets to you, it should be pretty bug free...
Yeah, there seems to be a lot of click-bait-y articles on the side of the sites linked, written by the same person. I don't think it is the potential bugginess that users are concerned as much as the idea that we the users won't have the final say what goes on our machines. That goes against the entire idea of FOSS.
Reorx wrote:On the second page of the article you linked, there is a brief mention of Win 10 Enterprise edition (designed for corporate use - 10 year support!) which can be configured or updated any way you like (just like Win 7 & 8 )... Just sayin'...
So another way of putting this free upgrade is that users with an Enterprise-class operating system (Windows 7 or 8 ), will get a free upgrade to the lowest tier of Windows 10. :wink:
3mutts wrote:2. Customers will replace machines every 2-4 years and therefore make up deferred revenue
If Microsoft thinks customers will replace their machines every two years (for the Home edition) they are out of touch. Maybe that makes sense for a smartphone, but for desktop computers that is unrealistic. What is the developing world supposed to do?

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by Pierre »

"If Microsoft thinks customers will replace their machines every two years (for the Home edition) they are out of touch. Maybe that makes sense for a smartphone, but for desktop computers that is unrealistic. What is the developing world supposed to do?"

the expectation is that you will replace your smartphone every 2 - 3 years, or when the battery exceeds it's useful life.
but - most only replace their desktop about every 5 - 7 years . ..
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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by 3mutts »

Interesting: http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/14/89598 ... -interview

Still wont get a Windows Phone (Just got a Nexus 6 :D )

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

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craig10x wrote:Actually, i wouldn't make any assumption that the information in that article is at all accurate...it is really more speculation then anything else...you know, sensational stories always attract a lot of attention...nothing that it said has been confirmed...actually, it doesn't sound very logical they would do that...they aren't that stupid to think that windows users are going to go along with that...(2 years of updates and then you go on a subscription fee service)...just wouldn't be good business policy, actually...and would hit on them rather hard, so not worth it to them, in the long run...
Agree with you. No way MS would make Windows a subscription service. That would be suicide for them. It doesn't make sense.

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

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If they do ever make it subscription, then they can kiss goodbye to any such products on my gear.
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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by z31fanatic »

Yesterday I saw an advertisement on Newegg for W10 preorders for $80. That leads me to believe that it won't be a subscription. It will be free for the first year for W7 & 8 users, and then it will cost the same as it always has after that.

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

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Does anyone really believe that Microsoft is going to give you free updates for Windows 10 for the rest of your life? If you do I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in too! :lol: :P :lol:

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by killer de bug »

z31fanatic wrote:No way MS would make Windows a subscription service.
I'm not convinced that this is impossible. Despite hard rumors, Microsoft has still not communicated on this. :?
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by exploder »

The new CEO said right from the start he wanted Microsoft products to go with a subscription model. Believe whatever you want but don't be surprised when the free updates suddenly stop.

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by Crewp »

I gotta say, I was running the Win 10 preview, and was not impressed. But, the thing that bothered me most was the fact that the ONLY choice for Windows Update is automatic, now this may change in the final version, but the update process stinks ( IMO ) sometimes the updates are huge and you don't want to shut the PC down during it, even though you want to go. And slow, first it downloads, then installs, ( Done right? ) wrong, then it restarts and loads 30% more, reboots, installs another 70% then if all went well good, if not, you get a cute message while it removes the update. :roll: Sorry, for the rant but Linux makes updates a breeze and I have become spoiled by it :) Win 10 is Win 7 DE with Win 8's base. And the new Edge browser is not ready for prime time. I said all that to say, even if it is free, I don't want it. :lol:
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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by FirebirdTN »

Microsoft, as in ANY business in a capitalistic economy is there to make money. Goes without saying, but sometimes we overlook that fact...

I see Microsoft going one of two directions with this:

Give away Windows/Updates for FREE, FOREVER, but hook you with subscription based software only available through THEIR ap store...

So it is possible you could see Windows updates forever for free. Just in the exact same way that they sell any product at below cost, but reap high returns on the consumables. Example: Cheap printers, expensive ink...

The other way I see they might possibly go is, the "freebie" windows could be a stripped down, missing lotsa-features-version. The "free" version might be updatable (ala Windows anytime upgrade) to a more fuller featured version for a small fee. Afterall, how many flavors of previous Windows products have we seen: Home, Home Premium, Professional, Ultimate, etc.

Those are my two guesses.

-Alan
Last edited by FirebirdTN on Wed Jul 15, 2015 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by killer de bug »

exploder wrote:The new CEO said right from the start he wanted Microsoft products to go with a subscription model. Believe whatever you want but don't be surprised when the free updates suddenly stop.
I believe it makes sense in order to increase the revenue. And it's also in the same direction as Office365...
Crewp wrote:But, the thing that bothered me most was the fact that the ONLY choice for Windows Update is automatic, now this may change in the final version,
Obviously this is on-purpose and will not change. :?
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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by exploder »

My wife was joking about Windows 10 when I looked at the consumer preview. She said people will upgrade for the pretty tiles in the menu! :lol: Sadly, she probably hit the nail right on the head!

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by mrdachshund86 »

killer de bug wrote:I'm not convinced that this is impossible. Despite hard rumors, Microsoft has still not communicated on this. :?
Microsoft's silence is stifling. If they wanted to, they could put a huge announcement on the Insider forum about "FREE UPDATES FOR LIFE". Instead, zilch.
Crewp wrote:I gotta say, I was running the Win 10 preview, and was not impressed.
Emphasis mine. Is there any reason you decided to stop running it?
Crewp wrote:But, the thing that bothered me most was the fact that the ONLY choice for Windows Update is automatic, now this may change in the final version, but the update process stinks ( IMO ) sometimes the updates are huge and you don't want to shut the PC down during it, even though you want to go. And slow, first it downloads, then installs, ( Done right? ) wrong, then it restarts and loads 30% more, reboots, installs another 70% then if all went well good, if not, you get a cute message while it removes the update. :roll: Sorry, for the rant but Linux makes updates a breeze and I have become spoiled by it :) Win 10 is Win 7 DE with Win 8's base. And the new Edge browser is not ready for prime time. I said all that to say, even if it is free, I don't want it. :lol:
Yeah, updates were not fun. It took hours to upgrade, and a lot of finger-crossing to get it to work properly. It had a very beta-y quality to it, and from your story, it doesn't seem to have changed much in that regard.

14 days. Tick-tock, Microsoft.

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by craig10x »

exploder wrote:Does anyone really believe that Microsoft is going to give you free updates for Windows 10 for the rest of your life? If you do I have a bridge for sale you might be interested in too! :lol: :P :lol:
Not free for the rest of your life...free for the life of the original (licensed) device you are running it on...I still highly doubt they are going to charge subscription fees...
I was a business major in college and it's just not sound business practice...the bad will and outcry that will develop would hurt them badly....so i don't think they would pull move like that (realizing the likely consequences)...

As far as the updates...yeah that is going to be automatic....however, it is quite possible that the option of "fast ring" and "slow ring" that the insiders have may carry over to the released version...and if it does, then you can delay them for a while and let the fast ringers test them first...then there would be less chance of bugs by the time you get them...This has been rumored but not confirmed...we will know after the final release on the 29th...

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by exploder »

Microsoft are the ones determining the life of a particular device on Windows 10, that does not translate into how long your hardware actually lasts. Doesn't it seem strange that they immediately announce the free upgrade but are not supplying any other details? Do you really think they are going to wait until the last minute to decide how things are going to work? Common sense tells me they have had this all planned out the entire time. They have a business plan, no question about it!

I took business classes too but since when has Microsoft used ethical practices in it's business model? Microsoft is all about making money period! Why stop at giving Windows 10 away after one year? I mean if they are giving away updates for life why not just make it free, period? Did the document about support for 2 - 4 years just appear out of thin air? Are you saying the author of the article just made up the whole thing?

Even Windows users on Windows forums are skeptical about Windows 10!

Edit: What happens to the people that install new hardware frequently? As it is now you have to call Microsoft to re-activate Windows. Will Microsoft just give you the new set of numbers or will they tell you to buy a copy of Windows? Technically if you do 3 hardware upgrades you have to re-activate Windows. So has the hardware reached it's end of life because the user has upgraded the computer? Way too many unanswered questions for a product that is about to launch and has already been released to manufacturers.

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Re: Windows 10 to be free upgrade

Post by Cosmo. »

Some years ago Microsoft tried to forbid, that MS software, that came bundled with a hardware (aka OEM version), has been sold separately. The failed (at least) in Europe, where the judges on the European court of justice decided, that selling OEM-software separately is legal.

I wonder, if this is a new try to use a legal gap. And I wonder, if the judges will accept this method. I'm not a lawyer, but I believe, that this lead to some discussion. (But surely not, before the official launch and not before anybody sues.)

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