2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by /dev/urandom » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:06 pm

hinto wrote:The biggest problem I have with many *bsd flavors (and the *too linux flavors) is compiling from source.
In opposite to FreeBSD and DragonFly BSD and the pkgsrc-based NetBSD which all recommend compiling your userland by yourself (although that fades since FreeBSD and its "family" have been using the highly capable pkg for package management since FreeBSD 10.0), OpenBSD relies mainly on binary packages IIRC. You can use ports but you shouldn't.

There are advantages from using ports on systems like FreeBSD; some examples: The dovecot2 package from the repositories doesn't feature MySQL support, LibreSSL is entirely optional (by default all packages use OpenSSL), aMule has weird defaults if you plan to set up a Kad2 seedbox, ... - using ports lets you decide.
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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by deleted » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:10 pm

That's a step in the right direction for OpenBSD.
That would only leave installing 3rd party apps that only release binary (as deb/rpm). Is there an "alien" for OpenBSD?
-H

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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by /dev/urandom » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:14 pm

Well, you can't just convert a .deb package and it will run on *BSD (although, technically, the *BSDs usually feature a native Linux binary emulation layer today). What exactly would you want to achieve?
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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by deleted » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:21 pm

/dev/urandom wrote:Well, you can't just convert a .deb package and it will run on *BSD (although, technically, the *BSDs usually feature a native Linux binary emulation layer today).
Yes, I know.

I guess I'm saying that in many ways *BSD is like an independent Linux distro, in that if you choose it, it can be hard to install packages out of band with the distro (unless you build from source).
I assume, unless I can use the Linux emulation layer, I cannot run VMWare Player (there might be a source in ports), NoMachine (maybe FreeNX?), and RealVNC (tho I'm sure there are other VNC's to use).
I'm just using these as examples where the solution is a Linux binary, no source. If there is a source, I'll have to compile it. If there isn't then I'm Surely Out of Luck (unless the emulation layer can handle it).

-H

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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by /dev/urandom » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:29 pm

If you're looking for non-free software, it's hard to find a port for it.

RealVNC is available in the FreeBSD ports (and it shouldn't be too hard to convert it, but OpenBSD has TightVNC instead), also you could use pkgsrc on OpenBSD to increase the number of available ports by a lot. But yes, indeed, some Windows software is not available on Linux, some Linux software is not available on *BSD. But it does its best to still make it work.
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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by deleted » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:51 pm

Yep.
That's why I made the independent distro analogy.
-H

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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by MartyMint » Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:02 pm

I don't "hate" or even dislike the BSD's. Use them where applicable, I guess.

For my router/file server/ftp server? Awesome.

For my daily workstation? Not so much.

:(

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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by RacerBG » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:02 am

/dev/urandom, yesterday I tried GhostBSD on VB and also FreeBSD... My God! :shock:

On clear install GhostBSD (Mate desktop) uses only about ~65 MB RAM... Just compare that to Mint with Mate or any other Linux distro. The same RAM usage on Linux can only be compared with distros which use Fluxbox, Openbox or any other WM but NOT a desktop.

Interesting notice is that FreeBSD is very easy to install and work with. The only headache is the manual config file editing but on that part my experience with Arch comes in handy. :)

One last thing to notice about FreeBSD - on their forum almost everyone claims to have a server or servers. There are not too many people around which run FreeBSD on laptop/desktop. I'm not afraid because of this but this is not very attractive if you ask me.

My next stop will be OpenBSD (NetBSD and DragonFlyBSD will be skipped for now). 8)
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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by /dev/urandom » Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:22 am

RacerBG wrote:/dev/urandom, yesterday I tried GhostBSD on VB and also FreeBSD... My God! :shock:
You're welcome. :)
RacerBG wrote:One last thing to notice about FreeBSD - on their forum almost everyone claims to have a server or servers.
They have been targeting servers from the beginning - no UI by default makes it slightly less attractive to the casual desktop user. But it works rather well there too. :)
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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by RacerBG » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:54 pm

My OpenBSD experience for sure was...strange.

The install can be done by placing a rock above the enter key. :lol: Newbie friendly? Well the answer seems to be "yes".
OpenBSD was really fast to install but I was not in hurry for the final view. Really the window manager looks bad by today's standards.
And at first look there are a lot of programs missing from the system. At least the system configuration is not manual.
Which leads to the final impression: OpenBSD is good for system administrators but not for the desktop. :wink:

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Post by /dev/urandom » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:19 pm

What's missing for you? :)
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Re:

Post by RacerBG » Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:56 am

/dev/urandom wrote:What's missing for you? :)
First a simple WM would be nice. I mean WM like Fluxbox or Openbox. Then some programs like office suite, dictionary, multimedia stuff, disk burning program, web browser, graphic editing program, some games. And I know that most of this things are there but the software selection is not that huge compared for example to Arch, Debian or OpenSUSE. I don't know yet how the package management works in OpenBSD, I'm sure that it's not hard but in this regard FreeBSD wins vs OpenBSD.
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Re: Re:

Post by /dev/urandom » Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:38 am

RacerBG wrote:First a simple WM would be nice. I mean WM like Fluxbox or Openbox.
pkg_add fluxbox/openbox/...
RacerBG wrote:Then some programs like office suite, dictionary, multimedia stuff, disk burning program, web browser, graphic editing program, some games.
pkg_add libreoffice/...
RacerBG wrote:I'm sure that it's not hard but in this regard FreeBSD wins vs OpenBSD.
This is true. FreeBSD's software collection is larger than any Linux's. The more interesting question is: Do you need what's missing?
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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by RacerBG » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:09 am

The more interesting question is: Do you need what's missing?
Most of the stuff - yes :)
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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by xenopeek » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:05 am

/dev/urandom wrote:FreeBSD's software collection is larger than any Linux's.
I've run my share of BSDs over the years, but that sounds a bit bold :) FreeBSD has about 24,000 packages and ports. Ports based Linux distros, like Arch Linux with about 63,000 packages and ports (counting one architecture only), top that easily.

Comparing with a Linux distro that doesn't have a ports system, like Linux Mint, possibly would favor FreeBSD but that's comparing apples and oranges. Then you'd have to consider PPAs to be the alternative to the ports system (a poor one at that, but still :)). Linux Mint with about 70,000 packages can possibly top FreeBSD on its own without considering PPAs--the difficulty here being the inherited way of Debian to split upstream sources into multiple packages instead of having one package per upstream source (e.g., development libraries get split into their own packages on Debian, inflating the package count).
/dev/urandom wrote:The more interesting question is: Do you need what's missing?
Indeed :lol: As always, use whatever works best for you and indeed this is the pertinent question to ask oneself for that.
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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by /dev/urandom » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:58 am

xenopeek wrote:FreeBSD has about 24,000 packages and ports. Ports based Linux distros, like Arch Linux with about 63,000 packages and ports (counting one architecture only), top that easily.
Don't mix up "software" and "packages". FreeBSD has more software in its default repositories than Debian (and, thus, Mint) has. (Talking about ports: FreeBSD's Linux binary compatibility layer works rather well, just in case.)
There was a talk by a FreeBSD dev. about this on YouTube. I lost the URL though.
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Re: 2015: The Year of the OpenBSD Desktop

Post by xenopeek » Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:27 am

Like I said, that might be the case for Linux Mint because of the splitting of some upstream sources (software) into multiple packages. Arch Linux doesn't do that though. Having a ports system sure makes life easy...

As for FreeBSD's Linux emulation layer; that's not perfect last I heard. Can't run Steam for example.

I can only imagine all these considerations are worse for OpenBSD, not making it a consideration on the desktop for me. I've run it for a while as a server and that worked fine. These days I just use Linux as that's what I'm most comfortable with.
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