Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

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killer de bug
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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by killer de bug » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:44 pm

Fred Barclay wrote: I don't recall "privacy" being mentioned anywhere.
Nevertheless, it is!
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948

A right to privacy is explicitly stated under Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: “No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_privacy
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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by killer de bug » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:46 pm

Pjotr wrote:The spying in Windows 10 is bad, because it's used to created a detailed secret profile of you. Which Microsoft then sells to other companies, so they can better target you with advertisements and spam.

Even worse: insurance companies might base the height of your insurance premiums on your secret profile. Nice, when your profile shows that you're a regular customer of McDonald's, for instance: that means higher premiums for health associated insurances. Or that you buy a lot of beer regularly. The examples are endless.

And who says that your profile can't be acquired by a company where you've applied for a job? It's already getting worse, isn't it? Or that your profile, with the most intimate details of you, is stolen by a hacker who uses it for identity theft, so he can get loans in your name? Still worse, right?

People who don't care about their privacy, will eventually find out why they're horribly wrong. Sooner or later. Inevitably.
Probably the best post on this topic!
Thank you so much! The 2 examples are exactly the most critical ones at the moment!

By the way, Insurance companies in France have expressed a major interest to connected watches. Just saying. :roll:
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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by Fred Barclay » Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:49 pm

killer de bug wrote:
Fred Barclay wrote: I don't recall "privacy" being mentioned anywhere.
Nevertheless, it is!
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, 1948

A right to privacy is explicitly stated under Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: “No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_privacy
Is that actually law in the US?
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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by killer de bug » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:00 pm

USA have signed the document and therefore it is applicable.
I don't know if they have turned it into an actual law, but in my opinion this is not needed. This document is above national laws. At least in Europe.
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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by BigEasy » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:12 pm

I found not much logic in statement:
Nice, when your profile shows that you're a regular customer of McDonald's
Correct writing is: "Nice, when your profile shows (for them) that somebody's profile is regular customer of McDonald's".
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Post by cinnamoncoffee » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:20 am

I don't know about the US but it surely signed the document. In Slovakia, human rights stand above the constitution and cannot be disputed or changed.
However the problem is that these rights are defined to vaguely and their interpretation can change A LOT. there are many examples like what's more the right of a child to live or mothers right to decide if she wants to be pregnant? In case of euthanasia there is a problem between right to live and right to dignity etc. Is very complicated and complex topic and everyone agrees with the basic points but when a problem arises we have many points of view.
So we have a similar conflict between security and privacy.

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by Fragezeichen » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:50 am

BigEasy wrote:I found not much logic in statement:
Nice, when your profile shows that you're a regular customer of McDonald's
Correct writing is: "Nice, when your profile shows (for them) that somebody's profile is regular customer of McDonald's".
How is this statement not logical?
From what I understood, he meant that if your profile shows you are frequently eating at McDonald's and this information is disclosed to the insurance companies, you have to pay a higher premium. That sounds very logical to me.

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by cinnamoncoffee » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:25 am

Fragezeichen wrote:
BigEasy wrote:I found not much logic in statement:
Nice, when your profile shows that you're a regular customer of McDonald's
Correct writing is: "Nice, when your profile shows (for them) that somebody's profile is regular customer of McDonald's".
How is this statement not logical?
From what I understood, he meant that if your profile shows you are frequently eating at McDonald's and this information is disclosed to the insurance companies, you have to pay a higher premium. That sounds very logical to me.
Agree, I don't see a problem with the original statement. But English is not my L1 so I might be wrong.
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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by exploder » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:01 am

I think some of the comments about attitudes on Windows and Linux forums depend on what forum you happen to visit. Windows forums tend to view Linux as something you use on a computer that can not run Windows effectively. I do concede that Linux forums do tend to bash Windows. We do tend to quickly point out shortcomings but I think that a lot of us still have the view that Windows has to fail for Linux to succeed.

Windows 10 and privacy is a legitimate concern though, that's why it is such a hot topic. Other than that, Windows 10 is really pretty good. Consider this, Ubuntu took quite a beating over privacy too for something that could very easily be turned off. In reality the Ubuntu LTS release is actually very secure, just look at the shear number of updates provided for security.

It's great when we can discuss operating systems but we do have to loose the mindset that Windows has to fail for Linux to succeed. Steve Jobs said that in an interview and he did turn Apple around with that kind of thinking. Even Microsoft is realizing they have to coexist with Linux and Apple these days. If we really want to be competitive we need to find ways to do things better rather than matching features.

The whole privacy issue with Windows 10 mainly stems from what the NSA is doing. There are very valid points on how a users data could be used though, there is no question about it. People are voicing their concerns and it's up to Microsoft to act on these concerns. There are valid points for using Windows and Linux, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. Corporate users seem reluctant to upgrade to Windows 10, they share the same views on privacy many of us do.

Privacy alone will not put Linux on the desktop though, better features and software will. Instead of bashing Windows we should instead learn from it's mistakes. Instead of matching features we should create our own. Apple did it, they were on the verge of going out and now they are one of the most profitable companies in the world. Jobs said, Apple needs to do what Apple does best and that's just what they did.

We have creative people, we have a global community, we really need to focus on what we do best and see where it takes us.

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by richmorehave » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:05 am

Another way for me to explain my position with this invasion of privacy thing with windows 10 is Trust and Loyalty.

A few years ago, MS was saying to us, that they respected our privacy and would be an advocate to promote strong privacy policies. And they aimed the comment at google, implying MS is NOT like google.

And it's like the feeling you get when you are happily married and find out your partner has been unfaithful and has betrayed your confidences, and used everything they knew about you to "bring you down".

I mean, MS is smiling and patting us on the back, saying they need to examine and save all your emails, private files, private folders and anything attached to your windows 10 PC because they are trying to make their services better for you. They need to key-log you so they know every key you press on your keyboard , so they can know your passwords, your encryption keys, all personal info about you so Cortona can talk to you sweet NOTHINGS . And MS says you can't OPT OUT of all this info, even if you don't use Cortona and BING. And you can only use windows 10 if you agree to expose everything on your computers. And buried in fine print that is on MS's policy statement, which you will not see on their page, unless you expand it, how they will use everything they gather against you and share it with their friends and others . And this is all for YOUR OWN GOOD.

Linux doesn't need all that info about you as you listen to music, write a letter, and watch a movie, or do lots of stuff. I switched to Linux the last month, and I don't miss windows 10, I can do everything I need to do on Linux. And there is no privacy policy when I use Linux, because it's made by the community for the community.

The strong HATE for MS is because I thought MS was our Friend, only to find out they have betrayed us and they are worse than google with this NEW privacy policy. It could be some countries in Europe who will come to the rescue and ban windows 10 and embrace LINUX as the OS that can be trusted (compared to MS). As others suggest , this right to privacy is a human freedom , and goes beyond governments.

Windows 10 is GREAT, but giving up my Privacy is NOT FREE, but if you are using windows 10, I guess you value giving up your privacy in exchange for an OS. So in a funny turn-around, MS gets ALL YOUR private emails, private folders, private files FOR FREE, and you get cortana and BING. In either case, MS wins in this relationship.
Switched to Linux Mint to get away from windows 10 spying.
Until MS states that they will not scan,disclose and save any personal files, folders, on my PC, I will not trust them. I would need 3rd party verification.

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by duneelliot » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:18 am

exploder wrote:I think some of the comments about attitudes on Windows and Linux forums depend on what forum you happen to visit. Windows forums tend to view Linux as something you use on a computer that can not run Windows effectively. I do concede that Linux forums do tend to bash Windows. We do tend to quickly point out shortcomings but I think that a lot of us still have the view that Windows has to fail for Linux to succeed.

Windows 10 and privacy is a legitimate concern though, that's why it is such a hot topic. Other than that, Windows 10 is really pretty good. Consider this, Ubuntu took quite a beating over privacy too for something that could very easily be turned off. In reality the Ubuntu LTS release is actually very secure, just look at the shear number of updates provided for security.

It's great when we can discuss operating systems but we do have to loose the mindset that Windows has to fail for Linux to succeed. Steve Jobs said that in an interview and he did turn Apple around with that kind of thinking. Even Microsoft is realizing they have to coexist with Linux and Apple these days. If we really want to be competitive we need to find ways to do things better rather than matching features.

The whole privacy issue with Windows 10 mainly stems from what the NSA is doing. There are very valid points on how a users data could be used though, there is no question about it. People are voicing their concerns and it's up to Microsoft to act on these concerns. There are valid points for using Windows and Linux, they both have their strengths and weaknesses. Corporate users seem reluctant to upgrade to Windows 10, they share the same views on privacy many of us do.

Privacy alone will not put Linux on the desktop though, better features and software will. Instead of bashing Windows we should instead learn from it's mistakes. Instead of matching features we should create our own. Apple did it, they were on the verge of going out and now they are one of the most profitable companies in the world. Jobs said, Apple needs to do what Apple does best and that's just what they did.

We have creative people, we have a global community, we really need to focus on what we do best and see where it takes us.
I agree with every point you made...except one. While I love Linux, and still use Windows 7 for Photoshop, I am perfectly okay with Linux not becoming mainstream...I like the security that comes with an OS that isn't on every desktop. Part of the reason Linux IS so secure is because it's not worth a criminal's time to try infecting 1.5% of the computers out there. And because malware and viruses rely on incompetency or naivety, and Linux users tend to be more technically savvy anyway, that means an even lower percentage of users even becoming infected. So I'm happy with Linux staying under the radar and remaining under 5% usage.

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by exploder » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:38 am

I think my concerns on privacy come from my IT experience, it made me realize just how important privacy and security are. Data that falls into the wrong hands can cause massive issues. If Microsoft can access everything so easily how long before others exploit it? How many are exploiting it right now? It has been pointed out how your habits alone can be used and have a negative impact on you.

Windows is heavily attacked by malware, viruses and spyware because of it's wide spread use. That's not necessarily Microsoft's fault, we are seeing the same thing going on with Android devices today. Organizations like the NSA have been caught using data they have collected for personal gain, how many others are out there that we have not discovered yet? Today identity theft exists, that's a devastating problem that effects millions of people!

Privacy is something Microsoft really has no choice but to address if they want wide spread adoption of Windows 10. Sure, some will bury their head in the sand about privacy but I highly doubt this will be the case with corporate users and governments. The security risk is far too great to ignore.

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by MtnDewManiac » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:51 am

craig10x wrote:I have one final comment for you...if you think that by using linux, ubuntu, mint or whatever, you escape all that privacy intrusion capability
You do have a point there, lol. Anyone heard of Security-Enhanced Linux (SELinux), the linux kernel security module?
Wikipedia wrote:The United States National Security Agency (NSA), the original primary developer of SELinux, released the first version...
That agency is well-known for developing tools that enable others to guard their data against intrusion and then giving said tools away, right?

Ohwaitaminute - Is that a draft I'm feeling? Methinks that someone left the back door open....

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by exploder » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:02 am

@ duneelliot

Another thing that helps Linux remain more secure is the diversity it has. Different kernels, desktop environments, software and so on. Creating malicious code would be a lot more challenging, not that it could not be done though. There are steps that can be taken to help keep Windows more secure though. Creating user accounts instead of running with admin privileges, storing data in a home directory on a server instead of the local machine, etc.

Windows 10 with it's default privacy settings defeats some of this though. I used to work for a company that made transmissions for Ford and Chrysler, they used Solaris back then for all their engineering prints to keep their designs safe from competitors. Windows desktops were used for non critical day to day operations. The inventory system was on a Unix mainframe, you get the idea.

I can not imagine how difficult Windows 10 would be in a corporate environment.

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by MtnDewManiac » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:11 am

richmorehave wrote:Political Correctness
^^^^Oxymoron^^^^
Fred Barclay wrote:I've got a slightly different opinion than you on this. (MODS: I'm not trying to get into politics here, but if you feel I cross the line feel free to edit/delete as needed. :D )
Based on my study of America, it was founded on 3 specific rights: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Then in the Bill of Rights, you were guaranteed other specific rights, such as freedom of religion, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures, freedom of the press, freedom to keep and bear arms, freedom of trial by a jury of your peers, and so on. I don't recall "privacy" being mentioned anywhere.
Now of course, you could make the case that privacy is guaranteed by the freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures ("unreasonable" of course being highly subjective.) Is this what you're basing it on?
Personally, I define an unreasonable (no quotation marks needed here) search as one being performed without any evidence whatsoever indicating that a crime was committed. That would be my criteria for determining whether or not a government entity that had jurisdiction illegally broached my privacy. My criteria for determining whether or not a non-governmental entity illegally did so? That they did so. I've noticed, BtW, that corporate entities haven't suddenly stopped complaining - and taking legal action! - whenever someone else copies THEIR data. Think about that one, folks.

This might be informative:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... ivacy.html

BtW, that "pursuit of happiness" phrase seems to be vastly misunderstood - and not just by the unwashed masses, either. It's not a specific guarantee that any particular person will have any specific tangible thing. It's not an allowance for people (one person, a small group, or everyone) to justify their own little pet enthusiasm, either. [WARNING: Opinion ahead, lol.] IMHO, when the general public started misunderstanding these things, that's when my country started it's slide into the porcelain chair.

Whoever (and, by now, it has been several people) stated that Microsoft has given itself the ability - and attempted to give itself the right by way of their privacy policy and user agreement (which just might be illegal, in that it refers to what could be construed as an illegal act - at least in some nations/jurisdictions) - to "own" your data, and that this is clearly and plainly wrong, you have the right of it. The fact that the majority of the uses that they have for said data are profit-based is completely irrelevant. IDK what is so difficult to understand about that, but given the number of posts in that vein and allowing for the fact that a certain percentage of such posts could be trolling in nature... I don't really know how to state the concept any clearer, don't know how to get the point across using less complex language / even simpler words than have already been used, but continuing to make the attempt has become akin to yelling at a brick wall to move, lol. So... Have fun; I'm sorry that I won't still be participating in this thread when its anniversary date rolls around, but I've got more productive things to do.

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by richmorehave » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:20 am

I just can't see how MS could be Trusted in the corp world , since MS showed that they have the ability to save every-bodies emails, private files and private folders if they wanted to, without you knowing about it. And then stating they would SHARE that info with their friends and others.

MS just destroyed people's TRUST in the company. And can that be reclaimed? And we see how MS CEO's have changed a few times in a few years, and company goes in new directions with each change. And if some employee of MS is offered 100 million dollars to give the code to unlock their system or to obtain info on some company or government, that has to be a concern too. Gee, how can anyone trust MS now, since their code is hidden and they will not share it. And anything a company does to block MS from getting that info, maybe in NEW update will be bypassed, and maybe their IT dept doesn't know about secret access hidden that they don't have the ability to defend against.

I think Companies have no choice but to use Unix or Linux. Also knowing MS has jumped into bed with the NSA and who knows who else, and have backdoors built into the OS. There is a GAG order on MS not share the relationship they have with the government, under threat of treason or worse.
Last edited by richmorehave on Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
Switched to Linux Mint to get away from windows 10 spying.
Until MS states that they will not scan,disclose and save any personal files, folders, on my PC, I will not trust them. I would need 3rd party verification.

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by exploder » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:21 am

craig10x wrote:
I have one final comment for you...if you think that by using linux, ubuntu, mint or whatever, you escape all that privacy intrusion capability
craig10x does have a point. No matter what OS you use you still use a web browser and an ISP. Running a Linux distribution does not make you invincible! I have seen copyright infringement warnings issued directly from an ISP, so they do monitor what you do!

Your web browser does not stop scripts from running on web sites by default either, even using add ons does not completely stop it. Think about how often you have to update your ad block filters, it's a daily thing.

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by duneelliot » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:09 am

exploder wrote:@ duneelliot

Another thing that helps Linux remain more secure is the diversity it has. Different kernels, desktop environments, software and so on. Creating malicious code would be a lot more challenging, not that it could not be done though. There are steps that can be taken to help keep Windows more secure though. Creating user accounts instead of running with admin privileges, storing data in a home directory on a server instead of the local machine, etc.

Windows 10 with it's default privacy settings defeats some of this though. I used to work for a company that made transmissions for Ford and Chrysler, they used Solaris back then for all their engineering prints to keep their designs safe from competitors. Windows desktops were used for non critical day to day operations. The inventory system was on a Unix mainframe, you get the idea.

I can not imagine how difficult Windows 10 would be in a corporate environment.
Yes, I agree...just didn't feel like typing all that out, since this thread was about WinX. There are definitely a multitude of reasons why Linux is safer, I was just pointing out one! :D

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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by JohnBobSmith » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:37 pm

My dad just recently upgrade to Windows 10.

At least now I can find the button to turn that bandwidth hog off when not in use. And it doesn't take years to turn off, surprisingly.
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Re: Your opinions on Windows 10 so far..

Post by z31fanatic » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:06 pm

Finally they are showing some common sense. It should help those who had trouble with the upgrade.
Big change coming to Windows 10's activation system

Windows 10 comes as a free upgrade for those on Windows 7 and 8.1, and in order to get a copy of the new operating system activated, users need to first perform the direct upgrade and wait for it to be automatically validated by Microsoft servers.

Once this happens, Windows 10 adopters can easily perform a clean install because the product key is bound to the used Microsoft account and existing hardware configuration.

But it's not a secret that, for many, this new system failed to work correct and lots of Windows 10 upgraders actually had to wait several days to get their copy of the OS activated either because Microsoft's servers were overwhelmed due to the number of computers attempting to connect or because the fact that something went wrong on users' PCs.

Windows 10 preview for the win

Microsoft has been experimenting with Windows 10 Insider Preview builds a new system that makes the activation process a lot simpler, as it allows product keys that came with Windows 7 or 8.1 to be used for the new operating system....

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