This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

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craig10x
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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by craig10x » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:42 am

Newsgroups are where videos amd mp3s are posted...it's well known...and it isn't microsoft's job to find windows users who download from the groups and report them to various agencies/companies whatever...they would be committing suicide as a commercial enterprise if they did that...

Privacy agreements often contain a lot of junk a company has absolutely no intention of getting involved with, they just mention those things to "cover their backsides"...

Here is an example: linux mint warns that if you download a copy of mint with all the codecs included, you may be breaking certain laws in certain countries like the US for example...that's just to cover themselves...do you think Clem is going to report you to some agency if you live in the US and download the mint version with the codecs included? Well, MS is no different...

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Fragezeichen
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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by Fragezeichen » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:48 am

craig10x wrote:Newsgroups are where videos amd mp3s are posted...it's well known...and it isn't microsoft's job to find windows users who download from the groups and report them to various agencies/companies whatever...they would be committing suicide as a commercial enterprise if they did that...

Privacy agreements often contain a lot of junk a company has absolutely no intention of getting involved with, they just mention those things to "cover their backsides"...

Here is an example: linux mint warns that if you download a copy of mint with all the codecs included, you may be breaking certain laws in certain countries like the US for example...that's just to cover themselves...do you think Clem is going to report you to some agency if you live in the US and download the mint version with the codecs included? Well, MS is no different...
Exactly. I also don't believe Microsoft gathers all your personal information in order to help with prosecution of criminals. They just do it to raise their own profits. :)
But other big IT companies like Google and Apple are not better in this regard...
If I had to chose between Microsoft, Apple or Google, I would still rather support Microsoft tho, since Bill Gates donates so much to charity...
However, I don't see a reason why I should voluntarily switch back to Windows again from Linux.

richmorehave
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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by richmorehave » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:37 am

Would you know if MS is going after criminals using windows 10? I don't think so. It wouldn't be in the news media, so they can continue doing it. In fact, MS and the media and government would want you to feel safe using windows 10, so they can go after criminals.

Now, the question you have to answer yourself is this, have MS gone after criminals in the past? yes or no.

If you were using xbox , 360 xbox, you would know, that xbox is a SERVICE model, and with Windows 10 MS switched this OS to a SERVICE model. Why did they do this? Because how it treats your equipment and what is on your equipment.

MS banned millions of xbox's in the past , with multiple BAN waves if there was illegal software on the device or if anyone tampered with the xbox OS. If you didn't read about it, then maybe research it. Who is going to stand up for people doing illegal stuff. Nobody. If you are doing stuff you shouldn't be doing on your windows 10. Nobody is going to care if MS turns in criminals. And you are a criminal if you are getting illegal software. Maybe people using xbox thought they were safe with tampering with the xbox, 360, but found out differently. The BAM hammer comes down after months of gathering info, to make sure they get the right people.
I'm using Linux, good luck with windows 10.

Now, even the people who are doing nothing wrong are being searched , and all their data is being saved. When you cast a net in the ocean, it picks up everything. So, every-bodies data is being saved, and NEW types searches can find out all types of things about you.
Last edited by richmorehave on Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Switched to Linux Mint to get away from windows 10 spying.
Until MS states that they will not scan,disclose and save any personal files, folders, on my PC, I will not trust them. I would need 3rd party verification.

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by 1.618 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:39 am

Fragezeichen wrote: Bill Gates donates so much to charity...
Most charities are set up so corporations can avoid taxes or for other loopholes, which charities does he support? who operates those charities and what 'partnerships' are they involved in, what 'schemes' and other 'good works' do these charities actually do? what is the long term strategy and who benefits?......

craig10x
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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by craig10x » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:48 am

I'm not worried...but i don't think you should be using microsoft and windows 10 to "justify" your preference to use linux...If you prefer linux, that is fine...
i like it too...in fact, used it for 6 years! Was away from windows for a LONG time...It's only because i have been very impressed with Windows 10 as an operating system, that i decided to switch back...i don't worry about the nonsense stuff you seem to be obsessed with...

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by richmorehave » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:55 am

craig10x wrote:I'm not worried...but i don't think you should be using microsoft and windows 10 to "justify" your preference to use linux...If you prefer linux, that is fine...
i like it too...in fact, used it for 6 years! Was away from windows for a LONG time...It's only because i have been very impressed with Windows 10 as an operating system, that i decided to switch back...i don't worry about the nonsense stuff you seem to be obsessed with...
Who is obsessed? I'm in a Linux forum room chatting about the reason I stopped using windows 10. I am trying to raise awareness of a problem that I see with windows 10 privacy policy (or anti-privacy policy ---since you have NO privacy if you use windows 10).

You have shared in Linux forum room how you LOVE windows 10, and have switched back to windows 10 after using Linux for many years.

I have said many times, enjoy your windows 10, and also say I am using Linux. I value my privacy. And so does Linux.
Switched to Linux Mint to get away from windows 10 spying.
Until MS states that they will not scan,disclose and save any personal files, folders, on my PC, I will not trust them. I would need 3rd party verification.

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by Fragezeichen » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:09 am

richmorehave wrote: If you were using xbox , 360 xbox, you would know, that xbox is a SERVICE model, and with Windows 10 MS switched this OS to a SERVICE model. Why did they do this? Because how it treats your equipment and what is on your equipment.

MS banned millions of xbox's in the past , with multiple BAN waves if there was illegal software on the device or if anyone tampered with the xbox OS. If you didn't read about it, then maybe research it. Who is going to stand up for people doing illegal stuff. Nobody. If you are doing stuff you shouldn't be doing on your windows 10. Nobody is going to care if MS turns in criminals. And you are a criminal if you are getting illegal software. Maybe people using xbox thought they were safe with tampering with the xbox, 360, but found out differently. The BAM hammer comes down after months of gathering info, to make sure they get the right people.
I'm using Linux, good luck with windows 10.
Yes, they banned the XBoxes because using cracked versions of XBox-Games obviously harmed their revenue they receive from people buying original software and not for the sake of prosecuting criminals...
Most charities are set up so corporations can avoid taxes or for other loopholes, which charities does he support? who operates those charities and what 'partnerships' are they involved in, what 'schemes' and other 'good works' do these charities actually do? what is the long term strategy and who benefits?......
Well, I've read that he donated 38 Billion $ so far ... Looking at this sum, I don't think it's purely to avoid taxes... On top of that, he pledged to donate 99% of his fortune after death... I'm convinced that he has good intentions, but as I said previously that still is no reason for me to use/advocate Windows, especially not Windows 10... I'm using Linux because for me personally it is the better operating system.

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by richmorehave » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:35 am

Criag10x
There has to be something in the back of your mind that is thinking, "gee, is windows 10 using spycraft, keyloggers, saving and disclosing all my emails, private files and private folders as it says they are in privacy statement". Then , you bravely state in forum rooms " NO, MS wouldn't do that, they are using all my private emails, private files and private folders to help make their service better".

"And anyone who suggests that because it's in black and white that MS states they are accessing, saving and disclosing all my emails, private folders, private files doesn't mean they are doing that. It's just extra stuff they put in the policy just for the fun of it. " Is that your reasoning? Seems so to me.
Switched to Linux Mint to get away from windows 10 spying.
Until MS states that they will not scan,disclose and save any personal files, folders, on my PC, I will not trust them. I would need 3rd party verification.

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by craig10x » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:50 am

I think you need to read the comments of the the ms spokesman a bit better in that article i linked to...again, they are not looking at your e-mails, photos, etc...they are looking at the data that shows them what is working properly and what is not, in order to make improvements in how the operating system runs...they using it as a bug reporting system...that's it!

Other stuff you read in there is to cover themselves legally...just as Clem does when he warns people in say the US, that downloading mint with codecs may be contrary to certain laws and license agreements...A big corporation like MS has to cover their backsides and so they do...

I think you all need to read this and "chill out" :lol:
http://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperie ... indows-10/

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Fragezeichen
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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by Fragezeichen » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:05 pm

craig10x wrote:I think you need to read the comments of the the ms spokesman a bit better in that article i linked to...again, they are not looking at your e-mails, photos, etc...they are looking at the data that shows them what is working properly and what is not, in order to make improvements in how the operating system runs...they using it as a bug reporting system...that's it!

Other stuff you read in there is to cover themselves legally...just as Clem does when he warns people in say the US, that downloading mint with codecs may be contrary to certain laws and license agreements...A big corporation like MS has to cover their backsides and so they do...

I think you all need to read this and "chill out" :lol:
http://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperie ... indows-10/
I really can't imagine how scanning your private emails and personal documents would help them make their service better..

If they gathered information about your system specifications, error logs, response time of applications, etc... maybe I would believe they are just trying to improve their OS.
As far as I know, previous versions of Windows also sent system or error related information to Microsoft to improve their services, but why do they now suddenly need to explicitly state they have the right to access all your personal files and data?

And I don't think blog.windows.com or what some official MS spokesperson said is a reliable source under these circumstances.

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by tdockery97 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:14 pm

I don't know about laws in the rest of the world, but here in the U.S. of A. they MUST obtain a warrant to do some of the things that are being discussed here. They absolutely cannot just "turn over" your personal information to authorities. They would be not only liable to lawsuits, but also criminal prosecution. Also keep in mind that most of the scanning of files/folders on your Windows 10 system is done in order to place said files/folders in the "cloud". That's how OneDrive works. You can completely uninstall OneDrive without any negative impact on your system.
LMDE 3 Cindy

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by richmorehave » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:25 pm

tdockery97 wrote:I don't know about laws in the rest of the world, but here in the U.S. of A. they MUST obtain a warrant to do some of the things that are being discussed here. They absolutely cannot just "turn over" your personal information to authorities. They would be not only liable to lawsuits, but also criminal prosecution. Also keep in mind that most of the scanning of files/folders on your Windows 10 system is done in order to place said files/folders in the "cloud". That's how OneDrive works. You can completely uninstall OneDrive without any negative impact on your system.
The problem some of us think about this subject is this: If you agree to the terms of service , and you HAVE to agree to use windows 10, if in the terms of service , MS states that they will access, save, and disclose info in your Private emails, private files, and private folders, does that mean you signed away some of your RIGHTS. And if they also state that if MS finds someone is doing something questionable will turn it over to others. You have been given a chance to turn down the terms of service, and not use windows 10, or use it and abide by the TERMS of SERVICE.

A cop reads you your maranda rights, you have right to remain silent, but if you do speak everything can and will be used against you, and you talk to cop, it's legal to use against you. If you have been informed in Terms of Service that if you use this product, everything you do will be saved and anything you do that is against the law will be used against you.

Also, say MS doesn't turn it over to cops, but turns this info to their friends, is that legal? I think so, since in Terms of Service they state they can do that, and you have to agree to all TERMS of Service to use windows 10.

If a cop asks you, if you want to enter a courthouse, you have to be searched, you have to submit to search and if they find anything illegal can arrest you. If you use windows 10, you are agreeing to have MS search your pc, and if anything is found on your pc is illegal they can turn you in.
Last edited by richmorehave on Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Switched to Linux Mint to get away from windows 10 spying.
Until MS states that they will not scan,disclose and save any personal files, folders, on my PC, I will not trust them. I would need 3rd party verification.

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by duneelliot » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:27 pm

tdockery97 wrote:I don't know about laws in the rest of the world, but here in the U.S. of A. they MUST obtain a warrant to do some of the things that are being discussed here. They absolutely cannot just "turn over" your personal information to authorities. They would be not only liable to lawsuits, but also criminal prosecution. Also keep in mind that most of the scanning of files/folders on your Windows 10 system is done in order to place said files/folders in the "cloud". That's how OneDrive works. You can completely uninstall OneDrive without any negative impact on your system.
Actually, a private entity, acting under independent authority (ie. not at the behest of a LE agency) does not need a warrant. Warrants only apply to criminal proceedings and when law enforcement (government) agencies are looking for incriminating evidence for prosecution and are thus limited by the 4th Amendment.
And if you agree to the TOC when you install Win10 (which you HAVE to do during the install), you can't file a civil lawsuit (it wouldn't be a criminal prosecution) because you agreed to the TOC.
And I was in LE and studied Constitutional Law so this isn't hearsay or guess work.

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by Fragezeichen » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:36 pm

tdockery97 wrote:Also keep in mind that most of the scanning of files/folders on your Windows 10 system is done in order to place said files/folders in the "cloud". That's how OneDrive works. You can completely uninstall OneDrive without any negative impact on your system.
OneDrive was also enabled by default in Windows 8, still they didn't need to state they have the right to access all your private files, emails, etc and share it with their "partners"....

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by richmorehave » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:45 pm

Can we all agree to this?

If MS wants to IMPROVE their product, they can use the windows 10 TESTERS , and have all those people be subjected to all info on their PC.

But for regular windows 10 users, we are NOT subjected to this type of privacy invasion. Even if you LOVE windows 10, would you like to NOT have all your emails, private files and private folders searched and saved?

There are many people that entered into the windows 10 program to receive FREE windows 10 as testers, they are in different class than people who legitimately upgraded to windows 10.

I would need a brand NEW TERMS of SERVICE (TOS) , where MS states they will not collect any private emails, private files, private folders and not use keyloggers (telemetry) to spy on it's users. And since they are not examining anyone's pc, will not report anything to cops or others.

What I'm suggesting is what enterprise windows 10 is about. MS states you can OPT 0ut of all this spy business. I want that OPTION as regular windows 10 pro user.
Switched to Linux Mint to get away from windows 10 spying.
Until MS states that they will not scan,disclose and save any personal files, folders, on my PC, I will not trust them. I would need 3rd party verification.

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by Neophyte » Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:54 pm

tdockery97 wrote:I don't know about laws in the rest of the world, but here in the U.S. of A. they MUST obtain a warrant to do some of the things that are being discussed here. They absolutely cannot just "turn over" your personal information to authorities. They would be not only liable to lawsuits, but also criminal prosecution. Also keep in mind that most of the scanning of files/folders on your Windows 10 system is done in order to place said files/folders in the "cloud". That's how OneDrive works. You can completely uninstall OneDrive without any negative impact on your system.
Lol. It's cute that you actually believe that.

1. They are not law enforcement, and you contractually agreed to letting them search your files when you installed the OS so they don't need a warrant. They have full legal right to search through all of your files.

2. In the States, the Patriot Act pretty much killed any need for warrants. They can just pull the "national security" card whenever it is questioned. Snowden already blew the lid off of that, so you may as well get over the denial already.

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by Fragezeichen » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:10 pm

richmorehave wrote:Can we all agree to this?
+1

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by craig10x » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:01 pm

What you all fail to realize that now windows will be a continuously evolving (rolling model) quality control becomes of paramount importance ALL the way down the line (including the mainstream users) so the data is needed to be checked even for the end users too...Their whole system is structured now for that...RELIABILITY is now the key goal here...

That is why they have the auto updating and the chain of testing from MS to Insider Fast Ring to Insider Slow Ring to End User and monitoring is also needed on the End User to ensure the reliability all the way through...thus the need for the things that he explained in the blog i linked you to...He even gave an example of how what you guys call a privacy intrusion, quickly corrected and solved a problem that was encountered which affected some of the end users...

However, i know it won't alter your impression that MS is this big bad corporation that wants to spy on you and invade your privacy...

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by richmorehave » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:34 pm

Criag10x
You are kind of cute, you refer to MS page to explain away our privacy concerns.

Would you do the same thing with the mafia. If the mafia gave out a public statement that they are helping the community out and all their business are legit, would you believe that too.

Come on, you are asking the company with a questionable Privacy Policy to address the issue? I would need independent 3rd parties that have access to interviewing MS employees and looking at the code to see if MS is doing anything they shouldn't be doing.

You are a stooge for MS. It's like the police investigating themselves. Or the FOX investigating a hen house to make sure everything is ok. :)
Switched to Linux Mint to get away from windows 10 spying.
Until MS states that they will not scan,disclose and save any personal files, folders, on my PC, I will not trust them. I would need 3rd party verification.

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Re: This time I *really* can't believe the Windows fanboys!

Post by craig10x » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:28 pm

talking to you...i might as well be talking to a brick wall :roll:

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