San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Chat about just about anything else
User avatar
GreyGeek
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:01 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by GreyGeek » Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:26 pm

Pierre wrote: ...

This is what I'm asking people - who I've met:
- would you Trust a Foreign Company that:
-- doesn’t pay it's fair share of Company Taxes - in this Country?
-- that stores your Private Data - in that Foreign Country?
and - is subject to the Laws of that Foreign Country?

it's amazing - just how many:
- either don't care
- aren’t interested - not one tiny bit.

GreyGeek made a passing reference to "the US and four other governments" AKA "the Five Eyes" consortium of allied Gov'ts,
often abbreviated as "FVEY" & who share that stuff with each other, with the US & UK Gov'ts being the main two, in that agreement.

would you Trust that your use-age of your iPhone or that of your Andriod Phone?.
- is not already compromised?.
http://mybroadband.co.za/news/security/ ... phone.html
& aren't you glad that you live in Europe?.

Every digital device I am aware of is either totally made in China or the components are made in China. Even most white or grey boxes use components made in foreign countries, mainly China because of the cheap and easily controlled slave labor.

I read sometime ago that one of the covert activities that led to a quick and successful conclusion to Gulf War I was that our gov "persuaded" Texas Instruments to put a kill code into the printers it sold to Iraq. When the war started Iraqi commanders found that their printers died mysteriously. They had to write orders by hand and either phone them or send them by courier. Either way the results were obvious.

China has the keys to the computer kingdom. CPU's and GPU's have what is called "microcode" in them. Also called firmware. So do devices like routers and printers. Ken Thompson, of the creators of Unix, wrote a paper called Reflections on Trusting Trust. In that paper he described creating a compiler that could detect when the login utility was being compiled and put a back door into it. It also detected when it was being compiled and put the code allowing for backdoors into the compiled binary. It then erased the "virus" code from the source and recompiled the source with the infected binary compiler. The compiler put the infection into the newly compiled binary using the source that did not have the viral code in it. The hack is not detectable by inspecting the binary compiler just compiled or by inspecting the source of the compiler which was just compiled. Checksums against the source and the binary compiler will reveal nothing. Now, imagine China putting a similar capability into the firmware of devices it makes for corporations in the Free World.

You could claim that because I use an Apple smartphone I am putting my trust in Apple and the foreign companies that make Apple pdts and the governments that control those foreign companies (mainly China). Every computer available for sale in the USA and the Free World is made, in part or in whole, by foreign companies, mainly China because of its cheap slave labor. Even System76, a company which assembles excellent computers that come with Linux pre-installed (my son purchased a Bonobo laptop and loves it - IF I do buy another laptop it will be from System76), uses parts from around the globe, including China. Very few digital devices or components are made in America. And even those that are made in America are often made by foreign workers who have entered the country illegally to replace American workers. With 109 million Americans of working age not working, Bill Gates still insists that Microsoft cannot find "qualified" American workers so America needs H-1B workers to fill their needs. Uh huh. Welcome to your dream world.

User avatar
LinuxJim
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:01 pm
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by LinuxJim » Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:50 pm

GreyGeek wrote:one of the covert activities that led to a quick and successful conclusion to Gulf War I was that our gov "persuaded" Texas Instruments to put a kill code into the printers it sold to Iraq. When the war started Iraqi commanders found that their printers died mysteriously. They had to write orders by hand and either phone them or send them by courier. Either way the results were obvious.
[...]
CPU's and GPU's have what is called "microcode" in them. Also called firmware. So do devices like routers and printers. Ken Thompson, of the creators of Unix, wrote a paper called Reflections on Trusting Trust. In that paper he described creating a compiler that could detect when the login utility was being compiled and put a back door into it.
[...]
Every computer available for sale in the USA and the Free World is made, in part or in whole, by foreign companies, mainly China because of its cheap slave labor.
Not my:

PDP-11
MicroVAX
Kaypro II's and IV's
Amigas
TRS-80s
C64/128s
Sun Workstations
SGI Iris and Indigo
..and many others

Sure, that's a bit tongue-in-cheek, as you said 'available for sale'. But, there are good reasons for holding on to older computers, many of which have been stated in this thread. ;)

User avatar
GreyGeek
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:01 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by GreyGeek » Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:54 am

LinuxJim wrote: Not my:

PDP-11
MicroVAX
Kaypro II's and IV's
Amigas
TRS-80s
C64/128s
Sun Workstations
SGI Iris and Indigo
..and many others

Sure, that's a bit tongue-in-cheek, as you said 'available for sale'. But, there are good reasons for holding on to older computers, many of which have been stated in this thread. ;)
:D

All designed, fabricated and built in America by Americans!

In 1979, as part of my studies of Chaos, I wrote a Pascal program on my Apple ][+ to draw 8bit hires graphic images of Mandelbrot and Julia Sets. It took 45 minutes to draw a single iteration, and months to obtain a series of images that drilled down a tentacle. Today's computers can draw 30 to 60 hires 1600X900 pixel images per second without raising the temp of the CPU a single degree.

Back in the day interactions with computers were terminal based, like today's grub based recovery menu. State of the art as they were back then I never want to go back to that level of technology. This iPhone 6 I am using to type this post blows away every computer I used before 2010.

User avatar
LinuxJim
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:01 pm
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by LinuxJim » Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:18 pm

GreyGeek wrote:State of the art as they were back then I never want to go back to that level of technology. This iPhone 6 I am using to type this post blows away every computer I used before 2010.
Yeah, but what do you do if it acts up? ;)

Part of the charm of those older systems is that one person can wrap his head around the whole thing, from the UI down to the bare silicon. You can be your own repair facility, with little to no investment. Nothing is hidden from view, nothing is dependent on tethering to the mothership. No worrying about where and when the next exploit will hit, or if the next version of software will drop support for your particular hardware. No updates to keep track of, or be a slave to. If the 'net goes down, so what? You can keep working (or playing), as none of the 'apps' depend on an Internet connection.

Sure, the old machines are slower, but I'll take all the other benefits over speed in a heartbeat. :)

mmix
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:02 pm

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by mmix » Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:24 am

intel cpu hide the back door for many years,
that's why we need open cpu like riscv
http://riscv.org/
http://www.lowrisc.org/

no scumbag in your isa.

User avatar
GreyGeek
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:01 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by GreyGeek » Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:31 am

LinuxJim wrote:
GreyGeek wrote:State of the art as they were back then I never want to go back to that level of technology. This iPhone 6 I am using to type this post blows away every computer I used before 2010.
Yeah, but what do you do if it acts up? ;)

Part of the charm of those older systems is that one person can wrap his head around the whole thing, from the UI down to the bare silicon. You can be your own repair facility, with little to no investment. Nothing is hidden from view, nothing is dependent on tethering to the mothership. No worrying about where and when the next exploit will hit, or if the next version of software will drop support for your particular hardware. No updates to keep track of, or be a slave to. If the 'net goes down, so what? You can keep working (or playing), as none of the 'apps' depend on an Internet connection.

Sure, the old machines are slower, but I'll take all the other benefits over speed in a heartbeat. :)
Acts up? I'll ask the same question about old hardware. With major hours in Chemistry, Physics, Math, Biology and Earth Science, and certifications to teach in those five fields, electronics was one of the classes I taught at college. This was when electronics was at the transition point between vacuum tubes and solid state transistors and VLIS. The class included things like op-amps, J-K flip flops, latches, slaves, Boolean logic. The labs were entirely bread boarded digital circuitry. I understand computer circuitry down to and including the insides of CPUs, BUSs, etc.

That said, if my old IBM PC with the 5.25" floppy disk drive went bad it would be impossible to fix. Sure, if the problem was diagnosed as a leaky capacitor or a resistor that has moved out of specs due to heat a/o oxidation issues, or corroded traces or connections, one could repair or replace those parts. However, if those failures drove an IC chip, PROM or EPROM into failure replacement of those proprietary parts are probably impossible.

Remember the old Iomega Zip drive ZIP-100 from the mid 1990s? I had hundreds of 3.5" floppies with data that I transferred to IOmega Zip drives, along with data from the 10 Mb HD. When people began reporting the Iomega failing with a click, the infamous "click of death", I began moving files from the Iomega to the new DVD's. I have a couple hundred DVDs with my data archived on them. They were supposed to last decades. Then reports started rolling in of DVDs being unreadable after five years. I purchased some external USB PassPort HDs and began copying the files over. About a dozen were unreadable. New computers don't come with DVDs as standard equipment. SSD's and USB memory sticks have replaced the DVDs.

Unless you write your own software, old hardware limits you to running software you purchased back then, assuming your floppies are still readable.

User avatar
LinuxJim
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:01 pm
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by LinuxJim » Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:20 pm

GreyGeek wrote: That said, if my old IBM PC with the 5.25" floppy disk drive went bad it would be impossible to fix. Sure, if the problem was diagnosed as a leaky capacitor or a resistor that has moved out of specs due to heat a/o oxidation issues, or corroded traces or connections, one could repair or replace those parts. However, if those failures drove an IC chip, PROM or EPROM into failure replacement of those proprietary parts are probably impossible.
Well, I wouldn't go that far. The IBM PC was designed with fully off-the-shelf parts - standard LS TTL - nothing proprietary in there. You can still get replacements for anything and everything. Granted, a few uncommon parts may have been discontinued from production, but new-old-stock is still available, as well as the arsenal of IBM 'spares'. EPROMs are simple to replace - and equally generic - it is the code that goes in them that is sometimes hard to find. But that isn't a problem for the IBM PC, because the code listings were in the back of the manual. ;)

My collection goes back even further than the original PC, to stuff from the 1970s. You might think they would be even harder to maintain, but I've not had any difficulties. Granted, I have an electronics background like you, but I haven't needed to use it to maintain those old machines (for the most part).
GreyGeek wrote: Remember the old Iomega Zip drive ZIP-100 from the mid 1990s? I had hundreds of 3.5" floppies with data that I transferred to IOmega Zip drives, along with data from the 10 Mb HD. When people began reporting the Iomega failing with a click, the infamous "click of death", I began moving files from the Iomega to the new DVD's. I have a couple hundred DVDs with my data archived on them. They were supposed to last decades. Then reports started rolling in of DVDs being unreadable after five years. I purchased some external USB PassPort HDs and began copying the files over. About a dozen were unreadable. New computers don't come with DVDs as standard equipment. SSD's and USB memory sticks have replaced the DVDs.
I still use Zip and Jaz drives on a regular basis. That's my primary means of transferring data between machines with no network connections and no USB ports. I remember the click-of-death as well. It only happened on one Zip drive of mine (I have about 20), and it ruined one Zip cartridge. It was due to Iomega's cost-cutting measures on later drives. They removed a tiny foam washer, that couldn't have cost more than a penny, and that caused the problem. But it cost Iomega their credibility. Five of the twenty or so drives I have are the "new" ones, and I put the washer in those myself. They have been workhorses ever since.

I agree with you about DVDs. Their lifespan was greatly inflated. Pressed DVDs do indeed last a long time, but home-recorded (i.e. laser-burned) ones are 'iffy' after five years or so.
GreyGeek wrote: Unless you write your own software, old hardware limits you to running software you purchased back then, assuming your floppies are still readable.
Gotta disagree there, too. There are thriving retrocomputing communites that continue to develop software and hardware for all the orphan platforms. For example, Arachne is an active project that gives you a modern, graphical web browser....under plain 'ol MS-DOS. And Apple ]['s get new software and hardware amost every day. There is a compact flash card that can emulate the old Apple GCR disk drives, USB and ethernet cards, and all manner of software to drive them. Even my old PDP-11 had a new C compiler released for it a couple of months ago. And speaking of the PDP-11, all my old 8-inch floppies are still readable after 30+ years - though it pays to store them properly. I won't go so far as to say my results are typical. ;)

User avatar
GreyGeek
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:01 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by GreyGeek » Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:15 pm

Amazing info, LinuxJim, but I wonder what folks are doing with 30 year old 8 bit, or even 16 bit, hardware and software that is more than just collecting, or playing around with antiques?

User avatar
LinuxJim
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:01 pm
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by LinuxJim » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:15 am

GreyGeek wrote:Amazing info, LinuxJim, but I wonder what folks are doing with 30 year old 8 bit, or even 16 bit, hardware and software that is more than just collecting, or playing around with antiques?
You'll get as many asnswers to that question as there are people doing it. ;)

For me, there are a few main reasons.

First, it is extremely rewarding to see how far you can 'push' the old technology. I think you would be amazed at the things being done that were once thought impossible. For example, 'Lunix' - a Linux workalike OS - running on a 1 MHz Commodore 64 with 64K memory. Or using a 4 MHz Z-80 under CP/M to decode and play MP3 files. How about an 8-bit Apple ][ web server with a live web cam? Also, it hones my programming skills to do such things under the constraints of tight memory, slow CPUs, and limited resources.

Second, I can convert almost any file format, on any sort of media, into any other.

Third, nostalgia. I grew up when all these machines were current, but didn't have the financial resources to try them all out and play with thousands of dollars worth of software. Now I can do all that at a tiny fraction of the price. :)

User avatar
Fred Barclay
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4204
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:12 am
Location: Bumping around in the bush

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by Fred Barclay » Wed Apr 06, 2016 9:28 am

LinuxJim wrote:First, it is extremely rewarding to see how far you can 'push' the old technology. I think you would be amazed at the things being done that were once thought impossible.
I think you and Jedinovice would have a lot of fun together... :D
Image
"Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy."
- Albert Einstein

User avatar
Tomgin5
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 928
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:37 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon USA

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by Tomgin5 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:32 pm

I do not have a so called smart phone. I really do not see any advantage of using one personally. I do have an old cell phone, folding type to avoid butt dialing. On Virgin Mobile and it typically runs $10 or less per month prepay. I keep nothing of important on it, and nothing is encrypted.

User avatar
Amii_Leigh
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 668
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:58 pm
Location: Somewhere in the middle of nowhere, Missouri

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by Amii_Leigh » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:47 am

Our taxpayer dollars hard at work: FBI reportedly paid a hacker $1.3 million to unlock
the San Bernardino shooter's iPhone
http://thehackernews.com/2016/04/fbi­unlock­iphone.html
Last Wednesday, speaking at the Aspen Security Forum in London, FBI Director James Comey
provided a roundabout hint of the price it paid to an unnamed "outside party" for the hacking
solution after Apple refused to help the agency bypass the iPhone's security mechanisms: When
Comey was asked how much the FBI paid for the zero­day flaw that allowed the agency to break
into Farook's iPhone, Comey replied: "A lot... More than I will make in the remainder of this job,
which is seven years and four months for sure." Public records indicate that Comey earned
$183,000 last year, and without a raise or bonus, he will make $1.34 Million through the
remainder of his job... indicating that the FBI paid over $1.3 Million for the hacking tool.
नमस्ते = Namaste
I honor the place in you in which the entire universe dwells.
I honor the place in you in which is of love, of truth, of light, and of peace.
When you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, we are one.

User avatar
Portreve
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1927
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by Portreve » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:14 am

GreyGeek wrote:There are a few things I could never do on my laptop. One is give my wife an ECG. With a $75 attachment and a free app from Kardia I can take Lead I, II, III, V3, V4 and V5 ECG's anytime I want. For $2 I can have a tech look at it. For $12 I can have a board certified cardiologist send me an analysis, which I can forward to my wife's doctor or cardiologist. When I had an episode of tachycardia last August my own ECG confirmed 144 bpm with AFibs. An echo later confirmed my heart veins and arteries are clear and the episode was probably due to MSG on a salad consumed the night before. After a couple months I stopped taking Metoprolol and Warfarin.
I don't think there's any doubt Apple has done an exceedingly good job at reaching out to and encouraging the medical community and industry to create things for the iOS platform. It is a shame that you cannot get those apps universally; nevertheless, this does not invalidate the need for them nor their use.
Amii_Leigh wrote:For the life of me, I could never understand what the romance was in signing away your life to what appeared to be a tiny device. Only thing was, that was deceiving. You aren't just signing away your life and privacy to a tiny device, you are signing it away to an application provider that uses all the data you give it in it's quest to make a profit. You choose to delude yourself that you 'know' how to do all these things that these 'applications' say that they can do, but do you really, when you aren't trying to understand what they enable that application provider to do? Besides that, what it's telling you to do, via it's applications?
For me, I think I'd rather keep my privacy and the freedom to think for myself than to download an application that says it will do it for me. To do that, I won't sign in to any service that says it will 'help' me and let it take away my last bastion of a thinking person.
Wow. It's not very often one can find such a condensed and unadulterated example of a philistinic¹ worldview as applied to the tech sector. Thanks!

¹ By philistinic, meaning to be philistine in nature, I'm referring to the blinkered belief that nothing else matters but that a thing is libre. That is, if a task cannot be accomplished without recourse to non-free products, it is a task not to be performed, or to be discounted arbitrarily as not genuinely worth the effort.
I'm so down wit' dat', yo, dass ich unter dem Beton bin.

Presently rocking LinuxMint 19.2 Cinnamon.

Remember to mark your fixed problem [SOLVED].

User avatar
Portreve
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1927
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by Portreve » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:40 am

GreyGeek wrote:Every digital device I am aware of is either totally made in China or the components are made in China. Even most white or grey boxes use components made in foreign countries, mainly China because of the cheap and easily controlled slave labor. ...
I find myself in complete agreement with the points you have made. Given your age and era of exposure and obvious factual awareness of things which have taken place, I would also like to add at this point that not only did we sabotage Iraq in many ways during the lead up to both Shield and Storm (to say nothing of things we've done to other foreign sovereign powers) but that we have also done many things domestically. You may recall Bush Sr. pushing for the Clipper Chip (which it would seem nearly nobody these days knows a thing about) which would have given OUR government a backdoor into OUR computer systems, more-or-less in perpetuity, and that's in addition to active domestic warrantless surveillance which has been going on, in whole or in part, since probably at least the 1950s.

It's not enough, Amii_Leigh or anyone else here, to simply be distrustful of foreign powers and what they might choose to do, or might already be doing, to we the domestic population. I don't seriously believe any of you folks think the U.S. Government isn't doing such things to us, but obviously it's not simply things from foreign sources we must mistrust.

Moreover, my sympathies, Grey, since you brought up China well and fully, are not just with our own people here, but with the Chinese (and, by extension, any of the S.E. Asian) worker, because they are the victims not just of their own regime, but also of us here, and the companies we support and the business practices of so-called "Corporate America" that we support, because we practice arbitrage such that we shaft them and we shaft ourselves. American workers lose jobs to Chinese workers because they work cheaper, not just than we do, but that we can. Find me a person here who could possibly live on what a Chinese worker makes. It can't be done. Meanwhile, they are being exploited, a well-documented fact at this point, and the ONLY ones who can be said to be a beneficiary are the executives and majority shareholders of Corporate American companies.

Anyone believing or suggesting otherwise is, as confronted by reality and facts readily available, stupid.

And, may everyone here be mindful, we are being exploited ourselves in this country. Take a look at the Bureau of Labor Statistics' own CPI Inflation Calculator.

To use an example, let us assume someone here is making $9 an hour. Now, let's compare that across decades:

$9 in 2016 dollars is worth:
$6.51 in 2000 dollars
$4.94 in 1990 dollars
$3.11 in 1980 dollars
$1.47 in 1970 dollars

Or, the same but simply stated more dramatically:
$9 in 1970 dollars is worth:
$19.11 in 1980 dollars
$30.32 in 1990 dollars
$39.94 in 2000 dollars
$50.58 in 2010 dollars
$55.24 in 2016 dollars

I apologize if in stating this I've further derailed this thread from wherever it was previously headed (or previously derailed) but I just wanted to point out there's a lot of factors going on which people just either do not know or are inexplicably unconcerned with.
I'm so down wit' dat', yo, dass ich unter dem Beton bin.

Presently rocking LinuxMint 19.2 Cinnamon.

Remember to mark your fixed problem [SOLVED].

User avatar
GreyGeek
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:01 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: San Bernadino iPhone successfully cracked

Post by GreyGeek » Sun May 08, 2016 12:32 am

+1 on everything you've written, Posreve.
I fear my own government more than I fear the Russians or the Chinese. I am 75 years old and in my wildest imagination I never thought I would have to defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in the "home of the brave and land of the free". Where it should matter most the five freedoms listed in the 1st Amendment are absent in academia. That which "shall not be infringed" is almost totally shredded. Warrantless searches are common place. So many exceptions and limitations on the Fifth make it worthless, and so it goes for the remainder. The RICO Act was used to prevent the Mafia from being able to hire lawyers who were better than prosecutors by declaring their assets "guilty property" and seizing them without recourse or return. Now, however, RICO is used 10,000 times a year against citizens by police to steal money and property from them without due process or recourse, using bogus accusations not based on tangible facts. Even if the accused proves his innocence (remember when the accused was assumed to be innocence and had to be proven guilty in court?) the law makes no requirement for the police to return confiscated money or property. Some police departments are funded by RICI siezures.

Worst of all is the POTUS, by virtue of his own Executive Orders, giving himself the right to declare any American citizen any where in this country or the world, on his own volition, without the need for proof, an "enemy combatant" and order that person executed!

Locked

Return to “Open chat”