Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

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Alexiy
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by Alexiy »

TooMuchTime wrote:
Ha, another W10 'success' story.
Wouldn't it have been great had she taken the $10k and bought a brand new killer system and installed Linux Mint? :D

And your W10 success story statement would still be true! :lol:
Yes, that would be clever. :)
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by Night Wing »

MajorMuff wrote:I have not had a single issue running W10, I honestly don't get what all the fuss is about.

In my opinion, W10 is the best Windows version so far.
The "fuss" for people like me who will never use Windows 10 is this. Windows 10 EULA states Microsoft can change anything in Windows 10 that Microsoft wants and basically the user can't do anything about it if the user doesn't like the changes.

With forced automatic updates in Windows 10, the user is "just along for the ride" in my opinion for what Microsoft wants. In essence with Windows 10, Microsoft controls user's computers, not the user.

With Windows 7, the user controls their computer(s), not Microsoft, as long as the user chooses the "Check for updates, but let me choose to download and install" prompt. This is why Microsoft didn't put this prompt into Windows 10.

As an example, with the new Anniversary Update (1607) for Windows 10, Cortana cannot be turned off (except in the Education and Enterprise versions and these two versions will not found in stores like Best Buy").

On a sidenote; if you check your files inside of Windows 10, you will find a file named, UpgradeSubscription.exe so even though Microsoft says Windows 10 will always be free, I'm betting some new features added down the road via automatic updates, some of these new features can only be used through subscription.

In closing, after reading the EULA for Windows 10, I find Windows 10 to be the most intrusive operating system Microsoft ever built and I would never agree to it. This is why I decided to get away from Windows. I chose Mint because I control all four of my computers through Mint updaes and since I don't need any specialized programs which are Windows only, everything I need, want or like to do in Windows 7 (which reaches end of life in January of 2020) I can do in Mint 18.

BTW, I use Mint 99% of the time now. The 1% I use Windows 7 for; is for updating the KB security updates, updating Avast AV, updating Comodo firewall, updating Adobe Flash, updating Java, updating Teamviewer, updating Libre Office and updating my two Windows browsers (Pale Moon & SeaMonkey).
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by Alexiy »

Night Wing wrote: BTW, I use Mint 99% of the time now. The 1% I use Windows 7 for; is for updating the KB security updates, updating Avast AV, updating Comodo firewall, updating Adobe Flash, updating Java, updating Teamviewer, updating Libre Office and updating my two Windows browsers (Pale Moon & SeaMonkey).
LoL, updates upon updates...
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by BG405 »

Alexiy wrote:
Night Wing wrote: The 1% I use Windows 7 for; is for updating the KB security updates, updating Avast AV, updating Comodo firewall, updating Adobe Flash, updating ...
LoL, updates upon updates...
Love it! :lol: I'm not looking forward to the lengthy but necessary updates when I eventually boot Win7 - and that'll only be to use Rufus and maybe EaseUs Partition Master, although I'm perfectly happy using GParted or KDE Partition Manager on Windows partitions. :mrgreen:
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by Portreve »

Night Wing wrote:Windows 10 EULA states Microsoft can change anything in Windows 10 that Microsoft wants and basically the user can't do anything about it if the user doesn't like the changes.
How, specifically, is this different from any prior version of Windows? Windows is Microsoft's property. Just because they haven't necessarily changed things like, for example, the user interface for a particular version of Windows, doesn't mean they cannot or have not changed other significant underpinnings. Windows XP is a pretty good example of this, when you consider the changes made to it during the course of the various service packs, et al.

It is unlikely Microsoft would make changes which would deliberately push people off their OS. At most, they'll make changes which piss people off, and which will cause some percentage of their users to look elsewhere for an OS platform, but that's likely as far as it will go.

Besides, the threshold at which an average user will switch is VERY high. It has to become a situation in which changes keep them from getting just about ANY benefit from not subjecting themselves to change. In many (probably most) cases, unless Microsoft rapes a user's spouse and/or harms their children, they're not going to switch.
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by Night Wing »

Portreve wrote:
Night Wing wrote:Windows 10 EULA states Microsoft can change anything in Windows 10 that Microsoft wants and basically the user can't do anything about it if the user doesn't like the changes.
How, specifically, is this different from any prior version of Windows? Windows is Microsoft's property. Just because they haven't necessarily changed things like, for example, the user interface for a particular version of Windows, doesn't mean they cannot or have not changed other significant underpinnings.

It is unlikely Microsoft would make changes which would deliberately push people off their OS. At most, they'll make changes which piss people off, and which will cause some percentage of their users to look elsewhere for an OS platform, but that's likely as far as it will go.

Besides, the threshold at which an average user will switch is VERY high. It has to become a situation in which changes keep them from getting just about ANY benefit from not subjecting themselves to change. In many (probably most) cases, unless Microsoft rapes a user's spouse and/or harms their children, they're not going to switch.
I repeat, with Windows 10 Home users don't have any control over the KB updates Microsoft sends them via automatic updates. Microsoft owns both Windows 7 and Windows 10, but I own and control my four computers with regards to Windows 7. I decide what installs or does not install on any of my four Windows hard drives with regards to the changes Microsoft would like to change on my computers running Windows 7. With Windows 10, the user still owns his/her computer(s), but the user no longer controls their own computer(s) when it comes to the changes Microsoft wants to make with Windows 10, Microsoft does. Another example is below:

With Windows 10 Home, the ability to control their computers by Group Policy was done away with in Windows 10 Home. But Group Policy settings were still retained with Windows 10 Pro (in version 1511). Now, with the Anniversary Update (version 1607), Microsoft has removed the ability to change things via Group Policy in Windows 10 Pro. So Microsoft "changed the rules of the game for Microsoft's benefit and not the user's benefit". In essence, Windows 10 Pro is basically the same thing as Windows 10 Home is now with regards to the Anniversary Update (1607). The link to this is below:

http://www.ghacks.net/2016/07/28/micros ... ws-10-pro/

Since one cannot control the automatic updates where Microsoft makes changes which the user cannot avoid or permanently hide with Windows 10, their computer is nothing more than a "glorified terminal for Microsoft".

As for you saying Microsoft would not make deliberate changes to the operating system because it might make the average user switch to another operating system; Microsoft was counting on the average user to grumble, rant and howl to high heaven about the changes it makes to Windows 10 via the automatic updates. But these average users will NEVER leave Windows for another operating system. These types of Windows users will take ANY type of operating system abuse, no matter how bad it gets from here on out. On this score, Microsoft was right (so far).

But I'm not the average user. I didn't mind reading Microsoft's 46 page EULA for Windows 10 and what I read, I didn't like it one bit. In fact, the Windows 10 EULA "ticked me off to no end" if you get my drift. With Windows 7 as my backup operating system, I control my computer via my KB update setting and not let Microsoft control my computer with Windows 10 via automatic KB updates. Windows 7 is the last Windows operating system I'll ever use from Microsoft.

In fact, with Microsoft's heavy handed tactics trying to get me to install the free Windows 10 upgrade on all four of my computers with their crappy KB2952664 and KB3035583 updates (among others) being re-issued every month for a whole year (and which I hid for a whole year), I will NEVER buy another Microsoft product as long as I live. Bottom line, Microsoft has lost me as a customer "permanently". Now that Windows 10 is no longer free, we'll see how many people will upgrade to it or buy a new computer installed with Windows 10. From here on out, I think Windows 10 user percentage will dramatically slow and that will be shown by Net Market Share so either September or October's user percentage will "tell the tale".

If I need a new laptop in the future, I'll buy one from System 76 or ZaReason which comes with a linux distro and I'll wipe that hard drive if the distro is not Mint and then install Mint. For a desktop tower, I'll build my own from scratch with component parts found on the internet or from a big box electronics store like Fry's.
Last edited by Night Wing on Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by The Old Timer »

:lol:
Last edited by The Old Timer on Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:44 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by Portreve »

Microsoft, in certain respects, is following Apple's lead on this.

The past several versions of Mac OS X have nominally been "free" upgrades. While it's true that Apple has not forced a user's system to upgrade to the latest version, they've done their own things to force the user's hand.

In essence, Microsoft is being squeezed, in part by GNU+Linux, but mostly by Apple on the one hand, and Google on the other, to "give away" their OS in a sense. At this point, the average end user is performing a good portion of their computing tasks, whether personal or work-related, on a non-Windows platform. In the past, they lost a LOT of people to Apple thanks to iPods, the Switcher ad campaign, iPhones, etc., and largely these are customers they've never gotten back, or never got back fully.

Night Wing, I agree with you: Microsoft is pissing off a lot of people. You will never buy another Windows-running computer; certainly, you'll never run Windows on another computer again. I've never been a Windows person, not that I haven't licensed copies, used it, and been a professional tech. However, the company I'm (in a sense) running from is Apple, though from my personal perspective, I'm running from all commercial, proprietary interests.
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Re: One more reason to avoid Windows 10

Post by coder123 »

xenopeek wrote:
Alexiy wrote:In short, Microsoft plans to update Win10 with a "compression store", which "compresses unused pages" in RAM instead of writing them to hard drive. They assert that it will allow to maintain more programs in RAM at a time.
Another feature copied from Linux? We've had zram (formerly know as compcache) for a while. Here's an early article about compcache: https://lwn.net/Articles/334649/
Alexiy wrote:In practice, users of new Win10 build experience system slowdown.
Did you have a source for that or is that your opinion? Using zram will be significantly faster than using swap or zswap on Linux and I don't see how that would be different for Windows. Hard disks (the spinning kind) are slow and memory page compression is blazing fast with suitable algorithms.
I stand corrected I didn't read this post before I wrote my other reply and I didn't realize that the compression scheme only minimizes how often swapping is done. I thought removed it all together (which is why I thought it would eventually lead to system freeze)
curtvaughan wrote:
z31fanatic wrote:
Alexiy wrote: Yeah, maybe my concern is vain.
Linux evangelists will make even a useful feature sound like it's another conspiracy only because it's from Microsoft. :wink:
Microsoft is not the mean megalith of the PC world that it once was - the company is on the defensive, constantly playing catchup to innovation from Apple, Android, and yes, even Linux. IBM was once the invincible Big Blue, dominating the mainframe world and hardware innovation. Then came minicomputers and workstations, dominated by DEC and Sun (neither of which now exist). Microsoft gained dominant market share of the PC software world, after shoving out ... Big Blue. Apple, too, I think has reached its peak as an innovative corporation - Microsoft was Bill Gates; Apple was Steve Jobs. They are both out of the picture. The biggest threats I see to Linux come from within - corporate invasion of the "free" software world by the likes of Canonical, Red Hat, and one-offs like Google's Android and Chrome. The systemd wars, etc., are rooted in this. Don't know how it will end up, but Microsoft is no longer the main threat to free software.
I not sure how much I'd consider Apple to be innovative (especially after Steve Jobs passed) IMO the iphone needs to catch up to Android in terms of hardware technology i.e. fast and wireless charging. Also as far as Microsoft catching up to Android are you referring to Andriod vs Windows Phone? If so, yeah they have a long way to go. (because of the amount of apps)
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Re: One more reason to avoid Windows 10

Post by z31fanatic »

coder123 wrote: Also as far as Microsoft catching up to Android are you referring to Andriod vs Windows Phone? If so, yeah they have a long way to go. (because of the amount of apps)
There is no catching up for Windows phone. It's pretty much dead.
coder123

Re: One more reason to avoid Windows 10

Post by coder123 »

z31fanatic wrote:
coder123 wrote: Also as far as Microsoft catching up to Android are you referring to Andriod vs Windows Phone? If so, yeah they have a long way to go. (because of the amount of apps)
There is no catching up for Windows phone. It's pretty much dead.
:lol:
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

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I have a Nokia Lumia 530 and this doesn't seem to be on the list of devices they will even offer a Win10 downgrade on! Mind you, Windows Phone 8.1 is probably on a par as regards functionality on these devices; I only use it for occasional photos, Shazam and a few other things .. I will keep using my Samsung non-smart cell phone for calls, texts etc. as it's almost indestructible.

Having said that, I have no problems connecting the Lumia to my Mint machines to transfer photos etc. to which is handy. Same goes for my Samsung B2710 tough-phone (when there's a memory card in it) but the Lumia camera is better.

I'd love to be able to run some flavour of Linux on the Lumia! The one type of "phoning" it is undoubtedly capable of, with Windows, is what ET managed to do.
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Re: One more reason to avoid Windows 10

Post by coder123 »

Ron Albert wrote:
z31fanatic wrote:
coder123 wrote: Also as far as Microsoft catching up to Android are you referring to Andriod vs Windows Phone? If so, yeah they have a long way to go. (because of the amount of apps)
There is no catching up for Windows phone. It's pretty much dead.

It might be the case because windows offers not that much liberty on smartphones.

The liberty of the phone could be fixed by jailbreaking but the problem with it is the app support.
coder123

Re: One more reason to avoid Windows 10

Post by coder123 »

Ron Albert wrote:
coder123 wrote:
Ron Albert wrote:

It might be the case because windows offers not that much liberty on smartphones.

The liberty of the phone could be fixed by jailbreaking but the problem with it is the app support.

hahaha......that makes a shty sense!

Ok I admit maybe I don't fully understand what jailbreaking does to a phone but one thing is for certain...if jailbreaking a phone makes it so that it can run apps of other phones then jailbreaking is the solution to the windows phone problem. :lol:
ostracized

Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by ostracized »

Portreve wrote: Besides, the threshold at which an average user will switch is VERY high. It has to become a situation in which changes keep them from getting just about ANY benefit from not subjecting themselves to change. In many (probably most) cases, unless Microsoft rapes a user's spouse and/or harms their children, they're not going to switch.
Well for me personally and the boxes I manage, that threshold was significantly lowered when svchost.exe started taking 6+ hours @100% cpu to properly scan for window updates. When you've stooped that low as an OS (besides your other NSA telemetry stuff), it's really time to change your boxes.
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by Portreve »

Vis a vis jailbreaking:

I understand that, as a user of Android OS, there are certain specialty things which require one to root a device, even to load a custom ROM. However, that has nearly no overlap with why one jailbreaks an iOS device. Notwithstanding my considerable distaste for Apple, jailbreaking for what you have to jailbreak for is, to me, completely unacceptable.
ostracized wrote:Well for me personally and the boxes I manage, that threshold was significantly lowered when svchost.exe started taking 6+ hours @100% cpu to properly scan for window updates. When you've stooped that low as an OS (besides your other NSA telemetry stuff), it's really time to change your boxes.
The hell of it is the whole "NSA telemetry stuff" remark really can't be relegated to tinfoil hat conspiracy theory-ism any longer. There is good reason not to trust what goes on in the inner workings of operating systems, particularly commercial ones. Moreover, Windows is fundamentally a piece of $#¥% that's really predicated on "good enough".

Every reasonable opportunity I get, I will tell people about GNU+ Linux, and sing the praises of libre licensing, file formats, etc. I don't even keep images taken on my phone or camera as JPEGs. Wherever it's been humanly possible, I use only libre formats myself. I've made (among other things) custom sounds for my phone, typically from movie or TV show audio clips, sometimes snippets of music, and in all cases, they are archived as FLACs, and in all cases they are transcoded for my phone as OGGs.
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by Kunkzi »

The biggest problem with Win 10 is the software comparability issue. And annoying bugs such as password reset Some programs such as CAD not working properly. I rolled back to win 7 a week after upgrade.
Last edited by Kunkzi on Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

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Microsoft does not want another Windows Vista / Windows 8 situation on their hands. People and organizations stayed on Windows XP (and/or 2K) past Vista and well into Windows 7. Everybody again hated Windows 8. That slowed the hell out of OS sales for them. So, I guess they made damn sure with Windows 7 and 8 that it was possible to build into it a mechanism to force upgrades on boxes.

As I've said above and in other threads, I run Android, and on the laptop hardware i have at hand (a MacBook Pro) I run Linux Mint.
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Re: Some reasons to avoid Windows 10

Post by TooMuchTime »

Besides, the threshold at which an average user will switch is VERY high.
...and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

- Thomas Jefferson; The Declaration of Independence, 1776


History has always proven this to be true.
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