Why phpBB?

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caetano
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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by caetano » Fri May 25, 2018 6:15 pm

There are many good reasons to migrate to Discourse.
For all those who feel like saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", I have only one reply: "Pebble choppers worked very well indeed."

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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by jaymot » Fri May 25, 2018 8:24 pm

So that's, what, like 2 or 3 people over a 2 year period who prefer Discourse over phpBB for this September forum. Most of the rest of us come here for the content and are used to a typical forum structure, having used them for years, so finding our way around is so easy it's almost automatic.

Discourse is, well, they say it's "100% free and open source software" but then they go on to discuss their pricing plans (there's a "Pricing" page on their website but not a "Download" page.) I don't get it. It's supposedly F/OSS but they're all "Buy! Buy! Buy!" (Oh, but there's a free 14 day trial. Yahoo!) Kind of makes me wonder if these few people pushing for a migration to Discourse are salespeople or affiliates? Or maybe just young people who grew up with the Facebook/Twitter paradigm and think that's the standard for all discussion sites?

phpBB 1) is free, 2) is well-supported, 3) has been around for years so there's lots of additional stuff for it, and most problems have already been found and fixed, and 3) it's so common that everybody that uses the web has probably used a phpBB forum at one time or another so they're already familiar with its layout, organizaton and operation. (Personally, having administrated and/or moderated on several forums in the past, I prefer SMF over phpBB but that's just my personal preference as I find it way easier to administer and customize.)

So the Mint team would first have to pay for Discourse (and have its features such as the number of available plug-ins restricted according to how much they pay) or else download the source from Github then figure everything out themselves because there's no support, and then go through the hassle of trying to migrate the database contents so as not to lose user accounts and the years' worth of Mint support information that's here, just to please a couple of people (and probably p**s off a lot more. Personally, I hate that "just in time loading" crappola. I want to be able to see ahead of time how long a thread is, then I can decide if I want or need to read the entire thing or jump to the last page and read only the newest messages. Discourse won't allow that. I have to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll to finally get to the end where the latest replies are. Also, I see that you have to click on something to view replies, which makes it harder and more cumbersome to find information (topics in phpBB already have any replies visible so you just scroll down and skim through them to see if someone's suggested a possible solution to a problem: you don't have to click on something to expand the replies section for each original post.) From checking out the Discourse demo forum it's harder to find information on it than it is here. It looks like it would be a good substitute for a blogging platform or a good choice for a more socially-oriented forum, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a tech support forum.)

Then when the migration dust had settled, at the end of the day the support forum would look just like 90% of the rest of the 'web and be harder to use for >90% of us here.

I come here to find information, or if I can't find what I'm looking for to ask questions and get help. I don't come here to have a "user experience". The Mint support forum is a tech support forum for an operating system which is a rather complex package. It's not a social media site where you "like" or "dislike" posts, or rate them "funny", "thoughtful" or whatever. They're just more-or-less permanent records of people's questions, answers, troubleshooting steps and solutions, plus a few miscellaneous comments and discussions thrown in for seasoning.
For all those who feel like saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", I have only one reply: "Pebble choppers worked very well indeed."
Here, have a New Coke. :D

Maybe the forum admin(s) could add a Web 2.0-looking and/or flat-style theme with accompanying widgets to the available forum themes, then those who prefer that kind of look-and-feel can have it without forcing it on the rest of us, and without having to migrate the whole forum to an entirely different platform (and pay for it)?
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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by caetano » Sat May 26, 2018 3:26 am

That was something. Almost every argument you just gave was wrong on many levels. I don't have the time to give a detailed reply and correct each one of these wrong affirmations but if you can find the time to look things up a little more thoroughly and stop taking me for a twitter/web 2.0/modern flat UI fanboy, that would be very nice of you.

That said, you've been heard loud and clear. You don't want any change.
Maybe over time there will be more people who want it enough that they would ask for it in this thread or another.
Let's leave it to that for now.

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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by jaymot » Sat May 26, 2018 10:50 am

caetano wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 3:26 am
That was something. Almost every argument you just gave was wrong on many levels. I don't have the time to give a detailed reply and correct each one of these wrong affirmations but if you can find the time to look things up a little more thoroughly and stop taking me for a twitter/web 2.0/modern flat UI fanboy, that would be very nice of you.

That said, you've been heard loud and clear. You don't want any change.
Maybe over time there will be more people who want it enough that they would ask for it in this thread or another.
Let's leave it to that for now.
Because it would be change merely for the sake of change, and a change that most users don't particularly want, when the current forum does its job quite nicely? Now, if they were using an ASCII-text-only system that didn't allow even posting images or links like the old BBSes back in the day, I'd agree with you that an update was sorely needed. :)

You're one of the ones advocating for a change. The onus is on you to do the research and argue in favor of your proposal, not on me (and posting a link to a site listing Discourse's features is not an argument nor is it research.) Nor is it on me to take the time to do research to try to prove that I'm wrong then post a rebuttal of my own arguments: that's also on you. If you don't have the time to do that, that's fine, but it kind of makes your own argument fall to the ground. Just saying that I'm wrong isn't a proper rebuttal or debate, it's just an opinion with nothing backing it up.

I've always been in favor of function over form and I just don't see anything about Discourse that adds any needed functionality to this forum. In fact, (again from just looking at its demo forum) it seems to subtract functionality, as I said: lack of pages per topic means I have to scroll through all of the replies rather than jumping ahead to the last pageful if I so choose, having to click on something to show replies rather than their being displayed by default just adds another unnecessary step, and most of its other features just don't seem to me to be particularly suitable for a non-social networking platform such as a tech support forum. Discourse seems to be about community-building through online discussions and users ranking and rating one another, where this forum is about users trading technical information and expertise regarding a specific subject, Linux Mint. I wouldn't use a blogging platform; Facebook, Twitter or similar social networking platforms; a Drupal, Joomla! or other CMS; a version-control system such as Github or CVS; or Slashdot's platform as a Mint support medium. They just aren't the best suited platforms for that purpose. Nothing against Discourse, it looks like a great system, but I just don't think it would be all that good of a fit here.

What I'm seeing in this thread are a very few people who think that this forum looks old-fashioned to them. That's all. No complaints about their ability to find needed information, or that they can't register or post: no actual usability or technical issues at all, just that it looks older than what they're used to or than they prefer. That's why I suggested adding a new-looking theme along with its accompanying add-ons and widgets, if any, and letting those few people select it in their settings as their default theme. Then they'd be happy (or perhaps merely happier) without their personal preferences impacting all of the rest of us who don't mind the current setup as long as we get what we need from it.
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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by caetano » Sun May 27, 2018 12:17 pm

Right now I have too limited time and internet connexion so I'll try to explain my viewpoint in more detail when I'm more settled.

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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by Redact » Sun May 27, 2018 7:50 pm

I very much like the look. It's easy on the eyes, it looks fresh, it looks clear. It's very easy to navigate.
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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by MtnDewManiac » Sun May 27, 2018 8:49 pm

Schyken wrote:
Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:58 pm
What is so bad about the forum that makes you stay away?
It feels like emails in 1998 to say the least.
If I remember correctly, back in 1998 I was using David Harris' most excellent (IMHO) Pegasus Mail. At that point in my life, I was subscribed to several very active email lists including one for the high performance vehicle (street-legal race car ;) ) that I owned at the time. If - for whatever reason - I did not access my email accounts for a week or so, it was not terribly unusual to find thousands of new emails. Pegasus handled all of them without choking - its filter setup was outstanding.

I miss it, lol. It's one of a grand total of (only) two applications I miss from my time spent using one of Microsoft's OS. The other was my audio player/etc. application and I think it was called Media Monkey or something like that (there was definitely a primate involved). Anyway...

I MISS the general state of email 20 years ago. I cannot recall ever having received an email in that era that looked like it was written for - and by - preschoolers.

I have had a few very specific complaints about this particular forum software. For me, it's not a question of "feels like" (which is subjective and, without intending to insult or flame in any way, kind of silly (IMHO) to base a choice like which software to run for thousands of people - since many of them will, naturally (given the human condition), have different opinions about how a thing "feels" and which thing "feels best"). It's a question of utility.

It is at this point that I must admit that the chosen software does function - so, in terms of utility, it certainly meets the minimum standard. BtW, if you want to see (again, IMHO) a real train wreck of a forum software - dropping the bar to new lows in both the utility and, yes, "feels like" categories across the board, punish yourself with a visit to:

Code: Select all

https://forums.republicwireless.com/
$10/month for unlimited talk and text - and I still haven't decided whether or not it's worth it, considering that the aforementioned forum is their ONLY support venue.

Personally, I'd much prefer vBulletin. When I load a thread in a tab at a vBulletin forum, my browser's "still loading the page" indicator doesn't keep showing for TWO MINUTES AND THIRTY ONE SECONDS (I just timed it with a stopwatch, out of curiosity). This is something that's fairly recent (to me, at least); I didn't notice it last year.

Also, I really like - and, in terms of utility, I find it really useful, since it saves me the bother of potentially opening dozens of threads into browser tabs just to see if I'm interested in reading the things :roll: - the fact that, with vBulletin, I can merely hover my mouse cursor over a thread title and a little popup appears with the first portion of post #1 in that thread in it. People aren't always 100% clear when choosing their thread titles. Or the subject might apply to me in general but the specific discussion involved doesn't. Getting a little more information - and quickly & easily so - really helps. It also saves on wasted bandwidth which, admittedly, isn't a prime concern to me personally (even this old wireless router can manage two megabytes per second, and I think the actual connection here is something like 50 megabit) - but when one considers the Internet as a whole, the amount of wasted bandwidth is surely monumental.

There are other reasons I much prefer vBulletin software to, well, every other type that I have encountered to date (as a user, as a staff member, as an administrator). It's extremely customizable without unduly influencing the administrators to go preschooler in the looks department (but still allows it, for the kids). vBulletin actually has this neat concept, too - it's called numbering the posts within a thread :roll: . I've been much more "vocal" about this preference here in the past, and that probably hasn't exactly won me many friends among the staff. So I've since stopped - and only decided to post this because I happened to see this thread.

I assume that the decision to go with a PHP forum software is one of two reasons, possibly both: Perhaps vBulletin is not open source, but this one is? I have observed that many linux users seem to have an at times illogical hate of all things closed-source. So that would be a "personal choice" kind of thing and, let's face it, Internet forums are not democracies - the site owner's word is, after all, law. The other possible reason would be that vBulletin costs money. Maybe this one costs less or is free? All things considered, lol, I find myself assuming that it's free. I dislike typing "...because who'd pay for it?" - but I do end up thinking that.

Again, this choice of software is certainly usable. I just don't like it. But that's not relevant. I actually found myself avoiding it for relatively large periods of time, like the OP. I, too, have longed for a forum software change (although Discourse would certainly not get my vote, since it seems to put too much importance on making the thing look like something that an old adult (who has never actually had - or been - a child) might think a kid would find visually pleasing.

But then I realized that this avoiding of the forum... I was only hurting myself. I was missing out on lots of useful information - and, of course, the prime venue for receiving help with my occasional Mint-related issues. So I got over my childish decision to avoid the community due to the software it runs on. I still don't care for it - but I have a great deal of respect for the staff and most of the members.

Oh, and I still have my $10/month unlimited (talk and text) cell phone, lol. Although I actually don't access that forum much. A couple times per year to make sure I'm still an active member, but that's about it. The company is undoubtedly much happier that way, anyway; I'm not afraid to let people know if I don't like a thing, there are better options for a thing, feel that "always putting a happy face on a thing - even if that thing is deplorable," et cetera. And the staff there seems like the kind of people who'd vote to give some kind of ribbon to everyone in a race, whether they won, finished 14th... or simply sat there eating pain chips. And that kind of attitude always seemed counterproductive to the species to me, lol. How are you expected to know if you should attempt to improve? (And why should you even bother doing so?)

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MDM
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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by jaymot » Mon May 28, 2018 4:37 am

That "train wreck of a forum software" is Discourse.

VBulletin is proprietary, closed-source, pay-for-it software. phpBB is free/libre open-source. I reckon the Mintmins thought using a proprietary forum app as a support forum for an open-source GNU/Linux distro would send the wrong message, and an open-source forum solution would be more in keeping with the spirit of free/open source software (FOSS). (Plus it's free as in "free beer", which doesn't hurt either to a non-profit group consisting of volunteers and without much of a budget, which I assume was/is the case for the Mint team.)

I'm a big fan of SMF, Simple Machine Forum, which is also free/open source, and in my opinion is much easier to use than phpBB for forum admins and moderators (for example it's incredibly easy to add and remove plug-ins (using a web-based GUI which makes it really simple) without breaking the whole forum), but I don't think that's enough of a reason to change platforms and go through all the time and trouble of migrating to a new system at this point. Those Who Run This Place are apparently used to phpBB by now, so better to let them carry on with what they're familiar with. SMF wouldn't add many, if any, features or functionality from an end-user standpoint.

There are a lot of add-ons available for phpBB as I recall (for SMF too, for that matter.) Maybe there are some that would add some of the functionality that you mention VBulletin has, such as showing a snippet from the latest or original post as a "tooltip" pop-up upon mouse-hover. (Disclaimer: I don't know what exists out there for phpBB any more as it's been years since I administered an online forum.)

BTW, if it's taking you over two minutes to load a page in this forum, have you cleared your browser's cache lately? Do you have broadband Internet access or are you on a low-bandwidth ADSL connection? Perhaps cable modem and your cable's node is becoming saturated with users sharing the bandwidth? That seems awfully slow. I have a 20MBps fiber-to-the-router connection and it takes only seconds to load for me. In other words, it's not the forum software that's causing it or it would be slow for me too. I think. :)
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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by Royi » Thu May 31, 2018 1:00 am

I find the Discourse platform to be amazing.
The ability to use MarkDown, the ability to see sub threads within a thread, Quotes mechanism, all is top notch and will make the experience of finding information and discussing at the forum much better.

I really hope you will make the move to Discourse.

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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by caetano » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:54 pm

jaymot: I finally have some time to reply to your previous post in detail and give some additional arguments.
jaymot wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 8:24 pm
Discourse is, well, they say it's "100% free and open source software" but then they go on to discuss their pricing plans (there's a "Pricing" page on their website but not a "Download" page.) I don't get it.
Their paid plans are for letting them host and deploy the website for you but you can self-host and deploy it yourself by downloading the software from the Github repository.
phpBB 1) is free, 2) is well-supported, 3) has been around for years so there's lots of additional stuff for it
Discourse has been first released in 2013 so although it's not nearly as old, it's still been a few years already and there are many plugins for it too.
I prefer SMF over phpBB but that's just my personal preference as I find it way easier to administer and customize.
Discourse was made specifically with moderation and administration in mind and I've heard some admins of older forums that migrated to Discourse say that it liberated them a lot of work.
figure everything out themselves because there's no support
Where did you get that from? There's plenty of support! For installing the software you would go in installation and for configuring after installation you would go in support. Plus all the other categories.
and then go through the hassle of trying to migrate the database contents so as not to lose user accounts and the years' worth of Mint support information that's here
Several phpbb forums have successfully migrated all their data using the phpbb3 importer and explained how.
just to please a couple of people (and probably p**s off a lot more)
Change always meets resistance no matter how good or bad the new thing is. That's the natural way of things.
But I don't think there's only a couple of people who would prefer Discourse, just a few who want it enough to search and find this thread and discuss about it.
Personally, I hate that "just in time loading" crappola. I want to be able to see ahead of time how long a thread is
The number of replies is displayed before you click on the thread and once you're in it, it shows it on the right side as well as an estimation of how long it would take to read based on the text length (displayed right below the first post). So it actually goes even further than phpBB for that matter. It can even summarize a topic by showing only the most relevant replies based on their popularity.
then I can decide if I want or need to read the entire thing or jump to the last page and read only the newest messages. Discourse won't allow that. I have to scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll to finally get to the end where the latest replies are.
Nope. That's what the miniature scroll bar on the side is for. It lets you jump faster to anywhere. Also did you know that the "End" button on your keyboard jumps to the end of any web page? Even quicker than clicking on a "Last page" button. You can also type "#" and any number to jump to a post.
Also, I see that you have to click on something to view replies, which makes it harder and more cumbersome to find information
Nope. You don't have to. All replies are displayed in chronological order just like on phpBB. Discourse just adds a feature to also display replies to a post right below it or vice-versa (display the post that the reply is addressed to right above the reply), which removes the need to always quote when you reply to an old post, while still maintaining chronology which is important for support forums.
it wouldn't be my first choice for a tech support forum.
Linux Manjaro, Gitlab, Framasoft, Mastodon, Blender (for artists and developers), Natron plus a bunch I don't know about yet are all tech support forums and I bet they would argue otherwise.
at the end of the day the support forum would look just like 90% of the rest of the 'web and be harder to use for >90% of us here.
If it's like 90% of the web, why on Earth would it be harder to use for 90% of users? You seem to be really speaking for yourself here.
The Mint support forum is a tech support forum for an operating system which is a rather complex package.
So are all the packages I enumerated which use Discourse for their forum
It's not a social media site
so aren't all the forums I enumerated
where you "like" or "dislike" posts, or rate them "funny", "thoughtful" or whatever.
Where did you get that from? There's no "funny" or "thoughtful" rating or "Dislike" button in Discourse. There is a like button which is useful to indicate that you have read a post or agree with it without having to write a message. And rating is very useful for tech support, take all the stackexchange communities for instance.
Here, have a New Coke. :D
My "Pebble chopper" punchline certainly sounded lame and cheap to you but you have no idea how annoying it is to read "if it ain't broke don't fix it" so often wrongly used and how lazy it sounds to me. So I anticipated it because I felt like it was going to come up soon :P
Maybe the forum admin(s) could add a Web 2.0-looking and/or flat-style theme with accompanying widgets to the available forum themes, then those who prefer that kind of look-and-feel can have it without forcing it on the rest of us, and without having to migrate the whole forum to an entirely different platform
I really really don't care about flat themes and looks. I care about features.

So here are the Discourse features from which I think the Linux Mint forum would benefit:
  1. Community moderation: to free the admins of some work, Discourse provides a trust system that gives particular abilities to the most dedicated users.
  2. Easier way to mark a problem as solved: the OP can simply click below any post to accept it as a solution. More visible = more used = more clarity on what still needs help and what doesn't.
  3. Topic splitting: an easy way for moderators to split multiple posts that went off topic into a new topic, so the discussions stay focused on the same subject.
  4. Replies display: Chronology is important for clarity, but context too. Discourse takes the best of both worlds by displaying all the posts in chronological order and adding buttons to display replies to a specific post right underneath it and vice-versa (display the original post that the reply is directed to right above that reply). For this to be possible, Discourse has 2 types of "Reply" buttons: one under each post and one at the bottom of the topic. They have a different color to make it clear. No need to quote all the time and scroll back and forth to understand the context anymore!
  5. Real-time and more visible notifications: helps solve problems more efficiently
  6. Intuitive and fully-featured user dashboard: it would be long to describe or would take many screenshots but to summarize, I find my way in it much more easily than in phpBB.
  7. Multi-recipient PM: you can PM multiple people at the same time and the conversation stays in one place and visible for everyone in the PM "group"
  8. Website-wide notifications if you're "@mentioned": This way you can invite anyone into any topic or PM group easily
  9. 4 levels of topic subscriptions:
    1. "Watching": you are notified on every new post.
    2. "Tracking": you don't get notified of new posts but a count of them shows up in the "Unread" tab, useful if the topic is not a high priority for you but you want to get back to it when you have time. You still are notified when someone @mentions you or replies to one of your posts.
    3. "Normal": you only get notified when someone mentions you or replies to your post but no post count.
    4. "Muted:" you don't get any notification even if you're mentionned or replied to. You have to set this purposefully if you feel somewhat harassed, spammed or annoyed by off-topic conversations. Obviously you can also report such unappropriate behaviors by flagging a post.
  10. Desktop notifications: pretty self-explanatory
  11. Post numbers instead of pages: many people seem reluctant to the idea of pages disappearing but the truth is, the more you use a single page with efficient navigation tools, the more you realize that pages are just a made-up concept that only made sense when just-in-time loading didn't exist. One conversation, one page, zero web page refreshing. It's just more efficient.
  12. Delete post: A user can delete one of his own posts by simply clicking on a button below it. The deletion has a 24 hours wait time in case a moderator wants to refuse it. This helps remove unnecessary text and make a topic shorter to read for others.
  13. Tags: when a program is big and complex, you may not have enough categories/sub-forums to cover it all. Using tags you can add up to the available categories and combine them.
  14. Display possible duplicates: while writing a new topic, Discourse displays on the right side a list of topics that may already have an answer to your problem. This can prevent duplicate topics
  15. Discobot: when you register to a Discourse forum, a bot guides you through the features of Discourse in an interactive way, requiring no cumbersome reading and getting you up to speed quickly
  16. Single sign-on: we could use our Linux Mint community account and not require two separate accounts anymore
  17. Easier quoting: select a chunk of text and a "quote" button will appear. Click on it and it adds a quote to that text in the reply box. Very small feature but helps efficiency
  18. Drag & drop images or files: makes showing a screenshot or sharing a file much easier and quicker and prevents dead links to third-party websites (imgur, dropbox...) where the author of the post may have deleted the file there.
  19. Real-time post preview: on phpBB you have to click on Preview and wait for the page to load. On discourse it happens in real-time on the right side. You can hide it if you want to.
  20. Typing...: when someone is typing a reply, Discourse shows it in real-time so you can wait before typing yourself and risking repeating something or typing something that becomes irrelevant.
  21. A plethora of hotkeys for efficiency: by typing "?" anywhere, Discourse shows you all the hotkeys that help you use it faster
Last edited by caetano on Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:15 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by caetano » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:03 am

I moved my argumentation to How about Discourse? as the title is more appropriate and focused on Discourse. But this proves we're not as few as some were thinking.

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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by Portreve » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:52 pm

Y'know, when I first noticed this thread today, I was going to go to the latest post, assuming it would have sharply contrasted from the 2016 timeframe in which I last posted here, and stick a "Thread Necromancy" card in it. However, I see it's been re-awakened for some time now.

I have to admit I'm not particularly happy with the attitude struck by some above when it comes to switching from phpBB to Discourse. Change isn't necessarily always for the better, so resistance to change isn't necessarily always wrong. If it were, LinuxMint wouldn't exist, and neither would MATE or Cinnamon. We'd all be using Gnome 3.x.
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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by caetano » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:47 pm

"if resistance to change was always wrong, Mint wouldn't exist"?
Sorry, you lost me there. Can you explain what you mean more clearly?
And whatever your viewpoint is on the subject, can you give some more precise arguments? Generic phrases on the good of change or the good of keeping things the way they are don't move the debate any further in my opinion. Only weighing the pros & cons in detail does.

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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by catweazel » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:54 pm

caetano wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:47 pm
"if resistance to change was always wrong, Mint wouldn't exist"?
You misquoted @Portreve, took your misquote out of context and used it in evidence against him. Foul.
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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by caetano » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:24 pm

what on Earth now?
I don't even know what side he's in, and quite frankly as long as there's no constructive argument in his comment, then it's not very important to me.
I just condensed what he said to try and understand it or let him tell me what I got wrong in it. If I got it wrong then one of us has difficulties with language. If it's me tell me where I messed up please.
And I'm not taking anything out of context, we are literally in the discussion right here and my reply comes directly after his. Out of context would mean out of the discussion that the quote came from.
Last edited by caetano on Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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catweazel
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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by catweazel » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:56 pm

caetano wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:24 pm
I don't even know what side he's in, and quite frankly as long as there's no constructive argument in his comment, then it's not very important to me.
Yet you took the trouble of utterly misquoting it, applied the misquote completely out of context then argued against your own construction of what you think he wrote.
I just condensed what he said
You completely rearranged the meaning and argued against the new meaning that you imposed on it.

"if resistance to change was always wrong" != "resistance to change isn't necessarily always wrong"
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caetano
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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by caetano » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:13 pm

where did I argue "against"? Again I just don't know what he wanted to say or even what's his opinion on the subject and I'm literally asking for it. How many times do I have to repeat that? The only thing I'm against is the lack of arguments no matter which side he's in, and whether I mixed his comment wrongly or not, either way it's clear that there's no precise argument for or against change for this particular situation of phpBB vs Discourse.

But I guess I'll have to deconstruct that condensation I made:
Portreve wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:52 pm
If it were, LinuxMint wouldn't exist,
The "it" here can only be referring to "resistance to change" from the previous sentence, right?
And the "were" can only be referring to "always wrong" from the same previous sentence, right?
So that makes: "if resistance to change was always wrong, Mint wouldn't exist"

Somebody tells me where I got that wrong please and let's move on and back on topic right away. We don't have time for circling arguments based on misunderstandings, do we?

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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by mediclaser » Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:05 pm

Portreve wrote:
Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:52 pm
...Change isn't necessarily always for the better, so resistance to change isn't necessarily always wrong. If it were, LinuxMint wouldn't exist, and neither would MATE or Cinnamon. We'd all be using Gnome 3.x.
I'm a beginner and I completely understand what Portreve is saying here.
Anyways, should the higher powers in these forum decide to switch from phpBB, please don't switch to something that doesn't breakdown a long thread into multiple pages. I hate scrolling through posts forever just to see the last few posts in a thread. :roll:

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Re: Why phpBB?

Post by xenopeek » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:32 am

I'm locking this topic to avoid discussing the same thing in two places. Anybody have comments on Discourse can do so in How about Discourse?
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