Google is playing God

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DeMus

Re: Google is playing God

Post by DeMus »

Moem wrote:
coder123 wrote: I used to be paranoid about data mining in general but then I learned to stop caring about it because I realized that it's unavoidable.
I don't agree that this is a good reason to stop worrying about it. You can't avoid it completely, but there is a lot you can do.
Like what?
Post by Moem » 24 Nov 2016 20:21
Trytip, you could start by telling people what those lines actually do, instead of telling them how to change stuff blindly.
You also don't give an explanation of what you think can be done. This does not help anyone.
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Moem
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by Moem »

DeMus wrote:You also don't give an explanation of what you think can be done. This does not help anyone.
Here you go.
http://moem.dreamwidth.org/338713.html
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!
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trytip
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by trytip »

DeMus wrote:
Moem wrote:
coder123 wrote: I used to be paranoid about data mining in general but then I learned to stop caring about it because I realized that it's unavoidable.
I don't agree that this is a good reason to stop worrying about it. You can't avoid it completely, but there is a lot you can do.
Like what?
Post by Moem » 24 Nov 2016 20:21
Trytip, you could start by telling people what those lines actually do, instead of telling them how to change stuff blindly.
You also don't give an explanation of what you think can be done. This does not help anyone.
i removed my comments since it included hacking the about:config which may break some sites, but if you read further you will see that i did give a basic BLOCK Firefox reporting to google

so once again: in google-chrome/settings/show advanced settings/privacy/ UNcheck ALL (if you want an explanation why read the Learn more)
in Firefox 50/preferences/security/ UNcheck Block dangerous and deceptive content/ Block dangerous downloads/ Warn me about unwanted and uncommon software

you may say "but i want to be notified about dangerous and deceptive content" and my response is https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/ho ... ction-work

that's a lot of reading but that's how i found out.

ps: and why would you not want DoNotTrack enabled in chrome or other browsers? if you search for DNT (do not track) you will learn that it is a false sense of security since this action hasn't been obeyed by websites since 2011)
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by Moem »

Trytip, your posts triggered me to do some research and I found some information about 'Safe' Browsing features, and added a paragraph about that to my blog post about browser hardening. So it was not for nothing! :)
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by powerhouse »

Thanks for all the replies. The discussion here is certainly interesting, and I like the suggestions on how to replace Google, which might avoid the problem.

BUT, I fail to see replies that actually discuss the issue at hand.

I'm talking about Google penalizing users and by doing so inflicting immense damage on them, without Google having any legal standing or authorization.

If I took a photo and stored it on Google Drive, can Google really just prevent me accessing it, or worse, delete it? Well, sure they can and they have done so with those poor bastards who dared to disagree with their sales terms. But didn't Google perpetrate a criminal offense?

If I park my car on the street, at a place where parking is allowed, can the city just confiscate the car, or burn the car, just because I didn't pay last months municipal tax? Under which circumstances can the city (or anyone else) take hold of my property, and what legal steps would they have to take to do so?

Some argue that the Google terms of service explicitly state that Google has the right to do this or that.

Well, if that was the case, I will happily change my terms of business to something like:

"Payment is to be made in cash upon completion of the service rendered. If the customer fails to pay up in full, his/her car, house and other property will become the sole property of Powerhouse." I could add that I will shoot the miscreant and so on. If I publish these conditions, are the customers really bound to them?

The mere act of Google imposing unreasonable terms on the buyers of their Pixel phones might - in some countries - be illegal. Who is Google to tell me what I should do or not do with their bloody phones? As long as I don't perpetrate any law in the country I am, I can do what I like with that phone. And if I don't like the phone, of course I can resell it. And if I like it very much, I can purchase phones for the entire family, can't I. Google may not be required to deliver, but once they do, they must comply with the laws applicable in the respective country. Since when do US citizens have no rights?

Google went way too far. The least Google could do to get out of this mess is to retreat from its act of retaliation, and to fire the people that were responsible. This would be a clear sign and help restore confidence. The other options don't look so bright, including the possibility of some nasty legal charges.
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by Penn »

powerhouse wrote:Thanks for all the replies. The discussion here is certainly interesting, and I like the suggestions on how to replace Google, which might avoid the problem.

BUT, I fail to see replies that actually discuss the issue at hand.
You didn't ask for that but i did tell you the only alternative I know to bypass entering into an agreement you apparently don't like with Google or any other company. Create your own domain and run it from your own server. Even then you will need an agreement with an ISP unless you want to become one of those too.
I'm talking about Google penalizing users and by doing so inflicting immense damage on them, without Google having any legal standing or authorization.
They do have legal standing. Go back and read what your agreed to when you set yourself up with all those services.
If I took a photo and stored it on Google Drive, can Google really just prevent me accessing it, or worse, delete it? Well, sure they can and they have done so with those poor bastards who dared to disagree with their sales terms. But didn't Google perpetrate a criminal offense?
Be precise here. What criminal offense did they perpetrate. It is THEIR servers you are using. If you don't follow the agreement, they can reclaim or block access to THEIR server. (odd, it seems that I and others here have said something about an agreement the end user accepts multiple times)
If I park my car on the street, at a place where parking is allowed, can the city just confiscate the car, or burn the car, just because I didn't pay last months municipal tax? Under which circumstances can the city (or anyone else) take hold of my property, and what legal steps would they have to take to do so?

Some argue that the Google terms of service explicitly state that Google has the right to do this or that.
Yes, they (in that case the government) can take your car or other physical property (usually the same property you are supposed to be paying taxes on) in certain circumstances and most places I'm familiar with (Israel may be different, if so see if any companies that offer those Google services are based in Israel). Though they can't burn the car (because in this case the car now belongs to the tax payers), after certain procedures and time spans are met, they can sell it or use it.
Well, if that was the case, I will happily change my terms of business to something like:

"Payment is to be made in cash upon completion of the service rendered. If the customer fails to pay up in full, his/her car, house and other property will become the sole property of Powerhouse."
Yes you could make that agreement and if the reasonable cost of that service was close to being equal to the value of the physical property you are using as collateral it might even hold up if you use the correct legal approach. Of course if they entered that agreement and you didn't bother to find out the bank already had a lien on that property, you will lose because the customer didn't have the legal right to enter that agreement.
I could add that I will shoot the miscreant and so on. If I publish these conditions, are the customers really bound to them?
Now you are just being as ridiculous as the title of the thread indicates. No, this is not legally enforceable in any country I know of and in absolutely no way does it even parallel to Google's terms of service. Well, even your other examples don't hold water but this really goes off the deep end.
The mere act of Google imposing unreasonable terms on the buyers of their Pixel phones
What unreasonable terms? Note, YOU said unreasonable and not just terms you don't like.
might - in some countries - be illegal.


Name one where they were selling the Pixel phone to a customer?

As far as that goes, name one country where this is so and Google operates.
Who is Google to tell me what I should do or not do with their bloody phones? As long as I don't perpetrate any law in the country I am, I can do what I like with that phone. And if I don't like the phone, of course I can resell it.
Sure. Even in the US you can do that. But if you sell the phone to a retailer and they find out, they can shut off the account associated to the initial sale of the phone. You agreed to that when you bought the phone (d'oh, the annoying agreement comes up again).
And if I like it very much, I can purchase phones for the entire family, can't I. Google may not be required to deliver, but once they do, they must comply with the laws applicable in the respective country. Since when do US citizens have no rights?
We do have less rights now than we did 30 or 50 years ago but nothing in this thread has even shown a glimpse of that. Doing so would get the thread locked and/or deleted because it would violate the rules on politics that you agreed to when you became a member of this site. (Uh oh, that word agreement comes up again but this time it relates to behavior in the very forum you are posting in. Yep, your post here is subject to an agreement.)

So yes, you can purchase the phones for the whole family (and the article even states that). But in all countries I am familiar with a manufacturer is allowed to set rules at the point of sale as to what is okay for the further distribution of their product.

An example is certain potentially hazardous chemicals. Some companies have a mandatory 2 or 3 points of sale at distribution and wholesale levels before reaching the direct consumer and quantities allowed or certain licenses for resale at different levels.

If there are countries that don't have these laws to protect the manufacturer by allowing establishment of supply chains I'd like to know who they are. All capitalist societies I know of do this and a true communist nation not only allows it, but they regulate it at a government level.
Google went way too far.
How? You have still failed to make your case.
The least Google could do to get out of this mess is to retreat from its act of retaliation, and to fire the people that were responsible.
On what grounds?

Is this more of the fad I am seeing lately of preaching tolerance by showing intolerance? If so I find it disturbing that it is spreading outside of this nation's borders. (okay, that was a bad joke but don't take that to mean the rest of the post is)
This would be a clear sign and help restore confidence. The other options don't look so bright, including the possibility of some nasty legal charges.
What legal charges? Again, name the law that is violated.

Would they get your confidence back if they went on a message board and trolled people by making outlandish and unreasonable claims that don't equate to the situation at all in hopes that someone would calmly and reasonably point out the flaws in their "argument" before pointing out they are aware it was all just a troll attempt?
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by powerhouse »

@Penn: Thanks for your reply and comments.
Now you are just being as ridiculous as the title of the thread indicates. No, this is not legally enforceable in any country I know of and in absolutely no way does it even parallel to Google's terms of service. Well, even your other examples don't hold water but this really goes off the deep end.
I know I went very far here. But so did Google by punishing their customers through preventing access to their property. I'm not sure you understood the consequences of what Google did. From what I understand from the Pixel phone story, customers bought these phones, paid for them, and Google actually shipped the phones. Google could have taken legal actions against the buyers for failing to comply with the agreement, which would be the normal way to do things. A simpler way would have been to cancel the deal and not ship the phones.

Yet Google decided to punish the customers. Preventing access to ones email can have devastating effects. Aside from major inconveniences, many people including myself would suffer from financial loss if all of a sudden I was cut off from my email.

Over many years Google, in particular Gmail, has been the benchmark for reliability, security, and efficiency for me, the golden standard by which I would measure other Internet services. Google has shattered that image and broken the trust.
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by coffee412 »

First off, I want to state that I have the upmost respect for the people of Israel.

Now, First thing is first. Google is not your friend. Google should never be even confused with a decent service. They mine your personal data and use it to make money by selling it to other parties. Google does not care in the least about you and your problems or even your data. This is a hard way to learn this lesson but you have to learn some time. Im sorry it happened this way. However, You are not alone.

If you want decent service and all the benefits that you described in your later posts then you will pay for it. Luckly, Its not that expensive to do. For instance, I have 5 email accounts and I pay 10.00 bucks a month for them. I have more options and preferences I could ever want with them and will probably never use.

Every other day I get hammered with phone calls from google that are at best very annoying. They are an endless parade of headaches that I really do not care to deal with. I highly doubt they are some "Gold Standard".

My advice to you is to just walk away from google in all its forms. You did the same with Microsoft or you would not be here in a Linux forum. Just pay for some actual service and discover the quality that comes with it. You really will be suprised at the quality of service you get when you pay a little money. If you need help in selecting an email provider just go over to rackspace.com and try an account out for 30 days free. There are of course many others but that is what I use.

Get rid of google as much as possible. Replace them with something like startpage. Make it a mission in your life to stamp google out of your life entirely (if thats even possible). I have 2 google accounts that I use to collect all my spam email. That is all they are there for. I would never think of using them for important (and for that matter, confidential) communication.

Google is just down right evil. Your just getting the "tip of the iceberg" here. Getting rid of google will not affect you that much. Just make the decision and find other sources for services. Its not that hard if you look around.

I am sorry to say this but its your own fault for letting google manage your life. Now its up to you to get things straightened out and take charge of your own life.

Just some "Tough Love" here.

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Re: Google is playing God

Post by InkKnife »

powerhouse wrote:@Penn: Thanks for your reply and comments.
Now you are just being as ridiculous as the title of the thread indicates. No, this is not legally enforceable in any country I know of and in absolutely no way does it even parallel to Google's terms of service. Well, even your other examples don't hold water but this really goes off the deep end.
I know I went very far here. But so did Google by punishing their customers through preventing access to their property. I'm not sure you understood the consequences of what Google did. From what I understand from the Pixel phone story, customers bought these phones, paid for them, and Google actually shipped the phones. Google could have taken legal actions against the buyers for failing to comply with the agreement, which would be the normal way to do things. A simpler way would have been to cancel the deal and not ship the phones.

Yet Google decided to punish the customers. Preventing access to ones email can have devastating effects. Aside from major inconveniences, many people including myself would suffer from financial loss if all of a sudden I was cut off from my email.

Over many years Google, in particular Gmail, has been the benchmark for reliability, security, and efficiency for me, the golden standard by which I would measure other Internet services. Google has shattered that image and broken the trust.
If you are using the free version of Gmail or any other free mail serve for mission critical stuff you are making a mistake.
You are NOT Google's "customer", full stop.
You and your data are the lure that gets Google their real customers and those real customers are advertisers. Using the free version of Gmail gets you very, very few rights and it has always been that way, all the way from day one of the service.
If it would be costly for you to loose access to your online data you really should consider paid services. Back-up, mail, calendering, etc all together wouldn't cost $100 a year and your position would be more secure. Services are cheap, why settle for free when you can easily afford better?
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by trytip »

google should not be your only concern. look and read if you have time and ponder the perfect imperfection of facebook https://www.facebook.com/about/privacy /// https://www.facebook.com/policies/cookies/ also draining all your personal data. nothing is free anymore. microsoft has at least 5 different privacy policies which i don't even pretend to understand. the more i customize browsers for privacy the more i see many sites not function well, and many don't even let you in unless you enable cookies like forbes.com use a referrer script in the address now (to see how sneaky they are go to google and search for forbes, click the first link and then look at the address bar (disable cookies first and see how far you get)
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by pdhunter1987 »

Years ago I used to use Myspace before facebook was even on the face of the planet. :lol:

Sorry...! anyways...
Turns out Myspace had the power and right to delete everyone's photos, that sucked as I had some I wanted to keep.

Yes, I believe Google can delete your photos, they have a little bit of power at the moment.

Google it.
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by Pierre »

considering that it was just a few years back,
that I'd finally did Close my Google Account(s)
& also don't have a Facebook Account, for the same reason(s)

the search is still DDG as the default,
but, it's surprising just how often that you do have to use the Google search engine, though.
- there is few real alternatives, that have a local result, from any search,
but some of them, are getting better, but again, they too, are often USA based company(s).
( the prime issue here, is the results are too USA centric, with low local results,
and that Google does have a localized version, so how do you get away from that ? )
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Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by killer de bug »

trytip wrote:an easy minimal solution for not reporting to google is to go to firefox preferences/security and UNcheck
Block dangerous and deceptive content
If you want to fine tune Firefox privacy feature and finger printing, you can use this website: https://ffprofile.com/
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
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Re: Google is playing God

Post by 1.618 »

Your data belongs to whoever owns the server, just like your money actually belongs to the bank until they deicde you can have it

InkKnife wrote:FF takes advantage of Google's malicious site warning system and their phishing warning system. A cursory examination of the minks in question reveals this, I know I just looked. I am not a fan of Google at all and use them sparingly but this is not a problem.Not nefarious.
In order for that to work the browsers sends every site you visit to a checklist, this is potentially one way to track you around the internet. In about:config enter :// in the search bar and you will be presented with a load of urls. you can remove all the https urls and the browser will stop sending data anywhere, you will however also lose other pages like addons. Just make sure you do not delete any //chrome urls


killer de bug wrote: If you want to fine tune Firefox privacy feature and finger printing, you can use this website: https://ffprofile.com/
I have a collection of twaeks I posted here with links to explanations
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=210616
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