Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

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borg101
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by borg101 »

Moem wrote:So you prefer Windows over Linux because you, as an advanced user, could not find the GUI tool that's present in your installation that does exactly the thing that you want?
You are free to feel the way you feel, and to base your feelings on absolutely nothing at all if you want, but I can't find your argument very convincing.

Use whatever OS you prefer, it's up to you. But maybe your self-perceived status of 'advanced user' tripped you up here?
Why do we, the community as a whole, shy away from GUI's over command line? Why do we continue to spend hours reading instead of doing?
We don't and we don't. You could have typed 'usb', 'disk' or 'bootable' into the menu search instead, and you would have found exactly what you're looking for. PEBCAK happens, in fact it happens to all of us, but it's not the OS's fault.
Linux based OSses have moved on more than you seem to realise. Have a little more faith in Mint: it's more complete and more friendly, not to mention easier, than you're giving it credit for.
I'm not trying to convince anyone, nor am I trying to blame anyone. I fully admit it was my own fault.
Pjotr wrote:But you're apparently able to find this forum for posting this rant. So why didn't it occur to you, to simply ask on this forum how to make a bootable USB stick in Mint? :shock:"
To his point, I just didn't want to wait for a response. You are 100% right about my "self-perceived status", but at the end of the day one should be confident with years of schooling, certifications, experience, etc. I think that speaks to my overall point of it's not quite as, and I use this word carefully, "easy". I don't expect a resolution and I certainly don't blame Linux or the community. My fault 10000%. But I do think, in order to make Linux more mainstream for developers, these discussions need to be had. I'm a fan of Bryan Lunduke because he is very open about discussions like these. I have very little "beef" with the OS and the community....except Ubuntu.....and that's a personal reason so it doesn't apply to the scope of the discussion.


Moem wrote:S/he just seems to be saying 'Mint is too difficult to use and there aren't enough GUI tools', both of which run counter to my experience.
I don't think Mint or any other "major" distro is hard to use. My complaint is that in order to grow it's user base and subsequently its developer base, it needs to be "easier", again I use that term very carefully, to use. That doesn't mean it needs to be a Windows clone. Just a little more intuitive on the frontend for simple things like installing any program. Pick your favorite 3rd party program and I'd bet money you have to add a PPA rather than just download a package and install it. Most install guides are outdated within months of a release. Take the same windows variant....even open source content, download the executable, install, and go. No reading or research required.



Great response srq2625! I agree almost a 100%. I disagree, slightly, with the following;
srq2625 wrote:To my view, there appears to be very little incentive for a developer to want to increase the number of “non-contributing” users
.....if you grow your base, contributors will come. I think this is especially true of the open source/Linux community. Look at how much support is on every project and distro's forum there is. Even here. It's astounding. Go MS forums and it's all robotic messages "did you try to reboot?" "you need to do a factory restore".
srq2625 wrote:Unless things have changed recently, there's not much push or interest on the part of GNU/Linux developers to increase market-share. As long as GNU/Linux remains viable enough to support their needs, they just don't care about market-share.
What about the productivity and gaming communities? I strictly use open source doc/text editors and I know a lot of industry professionals do as well. Then you have the big push for steam machines with the gaming community.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by Citizen229 »

I have used many dos/windows Os over the last 20 years.One thing i can say is I have spent my fair share of time searching the web for ways to troubleshoot and or fix windows flaws. I never owned Me but helped some folks with issues,, heh ME and issues. Any OS is the same, pay for someone else to fix it or start researching. This does not apply to Os's only, this is life. Fix your car, or pay someone to do it. Add insulation to your attic or pay someone else to fix it. Change the oil in your car or pay someone else to do it.

Now in terms of skill, as you have mentioned being an It professional in your past. I am a car guy. I have worked on cars for many years. Never as a job but as a hobby or helping people save money Never have I had the idea for certification. There have been many times I have fixed things for people the shops fail to( shops failure intentionally for a larger bill unknown). Now I am a Ford guy, but does this mean I will only drive a Ford? or work on Fords? NO. I drive a nissan and work on those evil GM cars as well.

My point is your post is not a complaint about linux, it is a complaint about your expectations in life. Linux cannot fix that and most likely never will. Please do not take this as some one on the web trying to tell you what to do. It is someone telling to apply your statement to other things in life and you will see how silly it is. I know this because I used to be that way. After working on all brands of cars I have learned they all make great cars, and they have their own flaws. I will be fixing any brand so why be picky. And I no longer tout one brand as being better that the other, but I still hold my first "love" on a higher pedestal personally Just not enough to make outright statements about it. Nor would I even think of claiming how much more reliable fords are on a chevy forum. The car arena is WAY more fanatical than the linux/windows die hards. A post like this would have had 3 pages of angry slander before it was locked.

My intention here is not for personal attack. It is to share a life lesson I have learned. I hope you are open minded enough to view it that way. Afterall I really do not know you.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by jimallyn »

My experience with Linux has mostly been the exact opposite of the OP's. Linux just works, things are easy to find, problems rarely occur. This has been my experience over 14 years of using Linux. My brother recently asked me to put Linux on his computer, and after a couple of weeks, his wife thanked me for it, because now she doesn't have to listen to him yell at the computer anymore. Much the same experience for my sister who I installed Linux for about a year ago. But, it's different strokes for different folks, and everybody's experience will be a little different than everybody else's. If the OP prefers Windows, then that's what he should use. No big deal. If, however, the OP would like to use Linux, too, then stick around, and if you have questions, don't be afraid to ask.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by deleted »

Pjotr wrote:
altair4 wrote:Linux on the desktop is another matter.
Not for me.

I've been, and still am, a fulltime Linux desktop user for over a decade (I switched to Linux in the summer of 2006). I'm very much satisfied with it, especially since I switched to LTS-only (first the *buntu's, now Mint).

Reliable, secure, stable as a rock. In my Linux decade, I've run into showstopper bugs maybe two or three times. That's about it.

The point you're bringing up may be valid theoretically, but not in real life. Not on my Linux rigs.
Same here....
And I like using my CPUs for doing things other than scanning for viruses and malware.
I've never needed Windows after I removed it from my home.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by BigEasy »

borg101 wrote:My story: I remember back in the early 90's of command line installers, a teenager being confused by sda and sdb
borg101 wrote:I learned about "dd" and read the man pages, tutorials, etc. I followed the instructions to a "T". And while making sure I selected the appropriate disk, and double checking I had selected the appropriate disk. I executed the command... Now my 4TB drive that contained 3.7tb of movies was gone...
The lesson that must be learned: everyone need to know exactly devices names and what it means. Since teenage years.
Windows assumes I'm stupid but Linux demands proof of it
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by deleted »

...BTW... I hardly ever use the linux command line. As a matter of fact... about the only time I do is doing
1- ssh -X to another linux box
2- ln -s to make a symbolic link.
Everything else has a GUI.... I;m sure the above commands do, too.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by Moem »

borg101 wrote:I'm not trying to convince anyone, nor am I trying to blame anyone. I fully admit it was my own fault.
Okay, I can see that. Still, you're drawing conclusions about Linux based OSses, not about yourself.
borg101 wrote: I don't think Mint or any other "major" distro is hard to use. My complaint is that in order to grow it's user base and subsequently its developer base, it needs to be "easier", again I use that term very carefully, to use. That doesn't mean it needs to be a Windows clone. Just a little more intuitive on the frontend for simple things like installing any program.
Have you tried installing from the Software Manager? It doesn't get easier than that... installing is literally one click, not even download and doubleclick. And there is so much software in there.

I'm not an advanced user by any means. Especially not on Linux, where I consider myself a newbie. I can't command line myself out of a wet paper bag. Yet I find Linux Mint easy to use and at least as intuitive as Windows (which I've used for 20 years). My mother, who is 78 and smart but certainly not technical, finds Mint easy to use. Riddle me this, how can that be?
Is it possible that you don't go looking for the simple solutions that Mint offers, because you don't expect things to be this simple?
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by DeMus »

If the OP believes he likes Windows more than Linux than let it be. It's his feeling, he has reasons to say this. Also when these reasons sound strange and bizarre to you, it's the way he feels and experiences them.
People: remember choices. When the OP chooses Windows then let him do that.
I chose another distro over Mint. At the moment I use Manjaro 16.10. A great distro, although it is not Mint.

I just wish to tell the OP to have a great time with Windows and I am sure he will think back to the days when he was using Linux whenever something in Windows crashes, but again, it is his choice.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by deleted »

I *think* the thing is most of us want to stamp out FUD (for better of worse) whenever we see it.

But yes... let him be...

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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by Moem »

That would be unkind. The post, after all, was meant to start a dialogue.
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killer de bug
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by killer de bug »

hinto wrote:2- ln -s to make a symbolic link.
Everything else has a GUI....
It has indeed also a GUI. :mrgreen:
In Nemo it's Edit > Create link. Or ctrl + M. :wink:
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by killer de bug »

borg101 wrote: You are 100% right about my "self-perceived status", but at the end of the day one should be confident with years of schooling, certifications, experience, etc.
The more you learn, the more you understand that you know nothing...
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by pdhunter1987 »

Wow these threads have even crept into the Linux Mint forums.
Reddit and YouTube isn't enough of an outlet to say "why I prefer x over y" discussions?

You have points and then you have opinion, fair enough.

To also set the record straight, I believe you can use Linux without touching a terminal, only using GUI applications.

Depending on what you want to do ofcourse.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by sikejsudjek »

Linux is far easier to install drivers, software and even format usb sticks. Drivers are in the kernel and get updated automatically, software is in the software manager, and there is a program with a gui to format usb sticks. What's the problem ?

Windows by contrast has you hunting around various websites to get drivers if windows update fails to find one. Drivers are often not updated. Software is installed from lots of different websites often with administrative privileges as root which is a security risk. I need 3rd party programs to reliably make bootable usb sticks, especially if they're large and I want fat32 as windows can't do this. Then I have to check for viruses and spyware all the time and defrag the system. Eventually it starts slowing down due to registry bloat.

I would respectfully suggest its windows that needs fixing with regard to these issues not linux. If you'd bothered looking through the menu in linux mint before posting this then I'm sure you'd have found a gui to solve your problem. :D
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by AscLinux »

Why every time some troll comes over and tells Linux is bad everybody starts feeding the troll? As a rule of thumb these Windows-is-better trolls have no clue what Linux can do, they try to make it to do Windows thing for them, and they fail. They cannot get out from their Windows box and see Linux can do 1000 things that are impossible in Windows. And don't even start me on security, no Windows box should be allowed to be connected to the internet. It costs billions annually to fight cyberattacks coming from "owned" Windows computers.
Say, some fella comes to a christian meeting and starts telling everybody how great it is to be a gay, wouldn't it be tasteless, even rude?
Why Linux forums tolerate Windows trolls? I have seen it on so many Linux forums, at least some members always fall for trolls. :cry:
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by Fred Barclay »

Guys, just to reiterate what Moem and DeMus have already said (and to add my own thoughts as well)...
I believe the original post was meant to start a dialogue. I've read many posts that might be considered trolling by some, and I don't believe the OP was trolling. Was he as familiar with Mint as many of us? No. Was he a bit frustrated? I think so. But I can't see any ulterior motives or intent to start a Linux vs Windows fight on his/her part. If you're doubtful, at least give him the benefit of the doubt.

I think most of us will prefer Linux over Windows, just as he (apparently) prefers Windows over Linux. That's okay. It's not an all-or-nothing world. Let's just do our best to help him with Linux.

So....
If I may, respectfully and as an ordinary member of the forums here (just like most of you), might I suggest we go back to the original topic at hand?

borg101, did you find/test the Mint GUI for creating bootable usb sticks?
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by jimallyn »

Fred Barclay wrote:So....
If I may, respectfully and as an ordinary member of the forums here (just like most of you), might I suggest we go back to the original topic at hand?
And as a moderator, I second that motion. If the OP wants to use Windows, that's his right. If he wants to use Linux, that is also his right, and we'll even help him with it. He has said that his intent was not to troll, but to start a dialog. So, if you've got something constructive to add to this dialog, feel free to do so. If not, just ignore this thread and go read something else.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by pdhunter1987 »

Fair enough - couldn't agree more @Jimallyn
He can use what OS he decides to use, I just think the OP didn't try find a GUI version of the tool he needed.

On Cinnamon I don't think the Linux Mint team could of made it any easier, they even developed their own tool! :D

Click the "Start Menu" > "Accessories" > scroll down to bottom and click "USB Image Writer".
Perfectly working out of the box and a simple GUI. :lol:

I agree, the OP came across in a wrong way but he isn't a troll.
I hope someone helped you mate. :)
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borg101
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by borg101 »

Moem wrote:
borg101 wrote:I'm not trying to convince anyone, nor am I trying to blame anyone. I fully admit it was my own fault.
Okay, I can see that. Still, you're drawing conclusions about Linux based OSses, not about yourself.
I don't think I'm drawing conclusions about Linux. I just feel to expand the user and developer base, these are some additions that should be, at the very least, considered.
Moem wrote:[Have you tried installing from the Software Manager? It doesn't get easier than that... installing is literally one click, not even download and doubleclick. And there is so much software in there.
I have. For the most part, I would agree. However it is not always up to date. There are many packages that are two or three versions, several months or even over a year, older. Updating to the newest versions require different PPA's which have install guides but are often changed. Kodi is a great example of this. The default package is over 9 months old.
Moem wrote:I'm not an advanced user by any means. Especially not on Linux, where I consider myself a newbie. I can't command line myself out of a wet paper bag. Yet I find Linux Mint easy to use and at least as intuitive as Windows (which I've used for 20 years). My mother, who is 78 and smart but certainly not technical, finds Mint easy to use. Riddle me this, how can that be?
Is it possible that you don't go looking for the simple solutions that Mint offers, because you don't expect things to be this simple?
You're assuming I didn't look as well as that I don't find it easy to use. On the contrary. It's pretty simple to use for most things. I looked for a default disk utility using keywords like "disk" "format" etc with no result. So to answer your, seemingly snarky, question with my question, does your grandmother ever format disks, install programs for the internet, or any other common tasks? Or is she just emailing and browsing the internet? If you setup two or three pieces of software and tell someone the parameters which how to use them "click this for the internet, click this for email", etc, of course they will find it easy to use. The Linux community doesn't need large office suite developers, or browser developers. We need other productivity developers and gaming developers. The only way you'll get more devs is to make them realize there's a large enough user base for them to make products and services for.


Thank you to everyone who is willing to have a productive conversation.
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Re: Why I still prefer Windows over Linux

Post by Fred Barclay »

borg101 wrote: I have. For the most part, I would agree. However it is not always up to date. There are many packages that are two or three versions, several months or even over a year, older. Updating to the newest versions require different PPA's which have install guides but are often changed. Kodi is a great example of this. The default package is over 9 months old.
That's one of those things that make Mint, Mint. Old and decrepit software... :roll:
Just kidding. Actually, it's sort of a benefit. Mint's goals are to be stable, and sometimes that means that software is not the latest version. It's a tradeoff: newer packages haven't been tested very long - or at all - and can introduce instabilities, but they are new. Older packages shouldn't have unknown issues, but they're not the latest and the greatest. Some distros like Arch choose to give the absolute latest packages, but it's not unheard of for an Arch machine to crash during or after updating. Others, like Mint, prefer to stick with what they know works.

We do have PPAs (which you should use with caution as they're not vetted for security nearly as much as the official repos) and important packages like Firefox are kept up-to-date.

To be highly technical, the packages aren't "out of date" since they're still supported (with rare exceptions), just not the latest release.

TL;DR: Mint uses somewhat-older packages to guarantee stability.

If you're interested in a rolling distro (read that "always new software") then my favourite is Manjaro. It's only slightly less newbie-friendly than Mint IMHO and works quite nicely! There is a increased chance of breakages though since it's rolling, so I'd be sure to keep good backups. But you should do that anyway... ;)
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