I keep trying to go Android.

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InkKnife
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I keep trying to go Android.

Post by InkKnife »

New phone time has come around and again I delve deep into reviews and tech reports trying to find that great deal in a good phone and every-time new phone season comes around for me I think that this time I will shrug of the Apple shackles and adorn myself with shiny new shackles from Google.
And just like 2 years ago and 4 years ago I am going to get another iPhone.
I don't pay much attention to phones when I am not shopping and I keep hoping and hoping that this time I will be able to find an Android phone that I want and there are many great Android phones out there. The trouble is android itself.
I cannot believe that Android is still such a screwed up mess. It boggles my mind that most android phones come with no particular guarantee of support. I am not going to buy a phone that may not be supported with timely updates for a reasonless lifespan. I am also extremely irked at how incredibly rare phones with just plain old, unmolested Android are. Even buying factory unlocked phones does not let you avoid some companies half baked idea of improving on Android and even unlocked phones come jammed to the gills with reinstalled crapware.
Is Android ever going to grow up so a person can just buy a phone and have confidence it will have support without having to spend, literally, days researching to find the very, very few phones that come with meaningful software support? As an example of the problem: Venders are still selling new Galaxy s4 phones with Android 4.4 on them. Contrast that with all my iPhones which had 3+ years of updates.

I only use Linux on my computers. I watched Linux for a good ten years before it finally got good enough. Now I have been Linux only for more than 5 years. But Android still needs to grow up. I am giving it another pass, maybe in two years?
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jimallyn
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by jimallyn »

I have a Samsung Galaxy S5 (Verizon), and I receive updates on a regular basis. If you want updates more often, you could install LineageOS, formerly CyanogenMod. That has all the manufacturer's crapware left out of it, and a bunch of useful features added to it.

A few years back (when all I had was a clamshell dumbphone), I was given an Android phone (Samsung Droid Charge) by one person, and an Apple phone (iPhone 4) by another person. I carried them both around with me for several weeks to try them out before I ordered service for either one of them. Android was the clear winner over Apple. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. There must be some reason why Android has 88 percent of the market.

P.S. I found Linux to be "good enough" in 2002.
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uberdorf
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by uberdorf »

Samsung gets monthly updates now, and they are not alone. I just don't know offhand the update practices of other brands. It is a mess, but not because of Google updating slowly. Google quickly updates Android whenever a flaw or exploit is found, and quickly. The problem is that Google does not push updates out to regular users. And that is up to the manufacturers to make sure the Android firmware works with the update on their phone. For many years that just didn't get done, but with all the exploits making the news things have changed. Once the manufacturer makes the update, then it gets passed to the carrier who is responsible for pushing the update to the phones. I just got an update the other day on my Samsung, and it was dated March 1. I don't know who took so long in getting the update out. So in short, Android gets fixed quickly but it doesn't get pushed to the phones quickly.

Anyways, choosing between Google and Apple isn't all that great of a choice. They both have their disadvantages, with a few advantages also. And they both collect data on you. If you want quick updates with more privacy, look into lineageos and which phones can be easily rooted to install it. Samsungs are difficult to root, by the way.
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by exploder »

InkKnife, you and I have similar experiences with Andriod for sure! I never thought I would buy an Apple product but both me and my wife went with the iPhone 7 this time around and we couldn't be happier! Everything you said about Andriod updates is true. When we used Android, one phone would seem to get updates and the other never got hardly any, it was ridiculous.

Cost was not even a factor this time either because a good Android phone is about as expensive as an iPhone now. I drive 50 miles to work sometimes 7 days a week, I depend on my phone if something goes wrong so there is no way I am using a cheap phone. The iPnone is by far the best phone I have ever owned and it was worth every penny I paid for it.
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Fred Barclay
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by Fred Barclay »

jimallyn wrote:There must be some reason why Android has 88 percent of the market.
In my experience, people on a Linux forum don't usually correlate market share and quality... :lol:
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by z31fanatic »

InkKnife wrote: I cannot believe that Android is still such a screwed up mess. It boggles my mind that most android phones come with no particular guarantee of support. I am not going to buy a phone that may not be supported with timely updates for a reasonless lifespan. I am also extremely irked at how incredibly rare phones with just plain old, unmolested Android are. Even buying factory unlocked phones does not let you avoid some companies half baked idea of improving on Android and even unlocked phones come jammed to the gills with reinstalled crapware.
Is Android ever going to grow up so a person can just buy a phone and have confidence it will have support without having to spend, literally, days researching to find the very, very few phones that come with meaningful software support? As an example of the problem: Venders are still selling new Galaxy s4 phones with Android 4.4 on them. Contrast that with all my iPhones which had 3+ years of updates.
Agree with you. I had a Galaxy S4 for two years and it was never updated past Kit Kat by Samsung or AT&T.
And as you said, Android is a bloated mess. Had an Asus Zen phone for two months after the Galaxy S4 which had 4GB of RAM. Yet it still stuttered sometimes. My wife's iPhone 5S at the time with just 1GB of RAM never showed any signs of slow downs.
Never again Android for me.
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z31fanatic
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by z31fanatic »

jimallyn wrote:There must be some reason why Android has 88 percent of the market.
Yes, sub-$200 Android phones sold in poorer developing countries will boost stats. :wink:
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InkKnife
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by InkKnife »

Fred Barclay wrote:
jimallyn wrote:There must be some reason why Android has 88 percent of the market.
In my experience, people on a Linux forum don't usually correlate market share and quality... :lol:
Seriously. If anything, popularity is almost always an indication of mediocrity. Android is cheap and "good enough" for the typical user who knows absolutely nothing about tech. Also, see Window"s popularity.
There has never, ever before been a main stream OS that has ever been as badly fragmented and poorly supported as Android. Right now if you go shopping around for brand new phones you will be presented with phones running four different versions of Android depending on the OEM. There are still brand new phones that have Android 4 on them and devices running Android 7 are few and far between and all at the very top of the price chart.
Even Windows, as crappy as that has always been, has never allowed OEMs to stand between customers and updates.
I put the blame squarely on Google. They bought Android, they determined the nature of the carriers and OEMs relationship with Android and when it came down to it Google chose to let carriers and OEMs to run rampant and made no effort what so ever to protect customers.
Say what you will about Apple, I am no fan of theirs, but Apple did it right. They drew a line in the sand with carriers and absolutely refused to let carriers ruin the iOS experience and they did not let carriers get in-between the end user and system updates.
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lmintnewb2

Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by lmintnewb2 »

Think you missed quite a bit while doing your research, as most of what you've criticized is patently untrue.

Get a factory unlocked phone, though ensure it's a model with a bootloader that can be easily unlocked and a mod-friendly model. Then someone can flash a custom recovery and install a custom rom(s).

They're even apps that let someone install several roms on the phone and boot whichever someone wants, like multibooting a pc. Even on a less mod friendly phone if someone roots it and learns what they're doing, they can remove oem bloatware and tweak hades out the stock rom that came with the phone.

Which is what I did, didn't do enough homework to get a fully mod-friendly model but just rooted it and makes a huge difference for sure. Just being able to take advantage of all the kickbutt Android apps which require root privs makes a huge difference.

As for lack of support, just as with gnu/nix, info on Android is everywhere. Learn a bit, join a few forums on the topic and/or learn to use a search engine and all the support anyone needs is a short time away. Lol, probably in less time than you'll spend talking to someone in India w Apple tech-support.

I mean an Android phone nowadays is pretty much a handheld computer. The cheap $127 includ tax, android v5.1.1 phone I bought could eat the 1st pc I had and many I've used since for breakfast. What x-user can do with Android is up to them(their tech abilities.)
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InkKnife
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by InkKnife »

lmintnewb2 wrote:Think you missed quite a bit while doing your research, as most of what you've criticized is patently untrue.

Get a factory unlocked phone, though ensure it's a model with a bootloader that can be easily unlocked and a mod-friendly model. Then someone can flash a custom recovery and install a custom rom(s).

They're even apps that let someone install several roms on the phone and boot whichever someone wants, like multibooting a pc. Even on a less mod friendly phone if someone roots it and learns what they're doing, they can remove oem bloatware and tweak hades out the stock rom that came with the phone.

Which is what I did, didn't do enough homework to get a fully mod-friendly model but just rooted it and makes a huge difference for sure. Just being able to take advantage of all the kickbutt Android apps which require root privs makes a huge difference.

As for lack of support, just as with gnu/nix, info on Android is everywhere. Learn a bit, join a few forums on the topic and/or learn to use a search engine and all the support anyone needs is a short time away. Lol, probably in less time than you'll spend talking to someone in India w Apple tech-support.

I mean an Android phone nowadays is pretty much a handheld computer. The cheap $127 includ tax, android v5.1.1 phone I bought could eat the 1st pc I had and many I've used since for breakfast. What x-user can do with Android is up to them(their tech abilities.)
I have absolutely no interest in rooting or modding my phone.
If desktop Linux were in anywhere near as bad a shape as Android I would still be running OSX on my computers.
You say what I say is patently untrue and then prove me right by laying out the strategies that are necessary to work around the shortcomings of default Android. Any OS that requires that level of end user intervention to achieve a workable device is an OS that is not ready for mass market deployment.
Windows just works, OSX just works, iOS just works, desktop Linux just works, Android, works if you have a high level of technical expertise and are willing to go thru the hassle of flashing the rom which could brick your phone if things go sideways.
You don't see a problem there?
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lmintnewb2

Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by lmintnewb2 »

^You call it a problem, whereas I see all the possibilities and potential. Which are mind numbing in scope(virtually endless). Rooting for me is a must. I won't have a device that I cannot get root privileges on. Just like I'd never have a gnu/linux OS installed that I can't get root in, that'd be silly.

Overall hey, you don't like android, totally up to you. I'd say judging by the gazillion Android devices in circulation pretty much everyone in the world disagrees with your opinion it's not fit for mass-distrib, shrugs.

Also know that anyone whose learned a bit about what can be done with Android will just shake their heads about your other views on this topic and get on with their lives. Which is what I'm going to do. :)

Edit: Android works fine ootb/stock. Doesn't have to be rooted or customized but it can drastically increase what someone can do with the device and imo one of the things which makes Android awesome.

One ie:( yeah I'm stoked about Android I guess :)) Prior to rooting, would get 3.5hrs or so of screen time till dead battery/recharge, afterwards w one power management app, that needs root and monitors and kills unwanted background processes, get 6-7hrs screen and still 50% charged.
Btw: No offense meant towards you fellow nixer. Just calling it as I see it. Everybody has preferences. You don't like something for any reason then hey, can't fault you for using what you like.
Last edited by lmintnewb2 on Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by exploder »

I share InkKnife's point of view about updates. I am not an Apple fan either but updates are the same on all supported devices. I have never really found a need to root a cell phone, that is I do not want to risk destroying a working device that I paid a lot of money for. The iPhone came stock with everything I need much like my favorite Linux distros. :)
lmintnewb2

Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by lmintnewb2 »

Heya Exploder, hope you're doing well dude. :)

My stance is pretty obvious on this by now. A rooted mod-friendly phone can be upgraded for the life of the device. Ie: install roms for newer versions of Android to it as they come out. If that's what someone wants.

Get the worry about peeps not wanting to brick a pricey tech goody. Don't blame them but if someone takes the time to learn a bit and gets a mod-friendly model, bricking it is highly unlikely and there's diff types of brick'ing too. Hard(you're probably screwed) and soft(device can almost certainly be recovered easily.)

Also the poss voids warranty thing. There are plenty of ways to unroot too and to backup and restore the stock rom that came with it. Though from what I've seen the voids warranty thing doesn't always apply anyway.

Some oems intentionally put out mod-friendly devices to cash in on the consumer demand for that niche. They won't give a whit if the device has been rooted/modded. Hardware component fails in warranty, send it in, get it fixed, done.

For me $127 isn't necessarily chump change but not so much to risk to learn about dorking with Android either. For me, didn't choose well, model has a bootloader that can't be unlocked, thus can't flash a custom recovery, thus can't install custom roms :(.

Had to settle for rooting and tweaking the stock rom. Should've did more research and bought a mod-friendly used phone off ebay or summin. Oh well, next time will be better informed about all this junk.
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by exploder »

Hi lmintnewb2! I get your point. I guess if you are willing to take some risk and do some research it might pay off. I just research quality and reliability of phones I am interested in. My wife bought a $600.00 LG phone that failed as soon as the warranty ran out! My wife uses her phone more than her computer so this was a huge problem. AT&T had a deal on the iPhone 7 and 7Plus and after a little research we jumped on it!

The service is excellent, they gave us a nice price break after the deal because our employer gets a discount. My wife has the 7 Plus and she is very happy with the quality of the phone and AT&T will fix or replace it if needed. I got the iPhone 7, it fits in my pocket better. We also got a $200.00 gift certificate from where we got the phones so we got OtterBoxes for both of them.

My phone is fast, reliable, does everything I want and gets regular updates. I had always gone with cheaper phones for myself in the past and I got what I paid for.... I would definitely buy another iPhone when the time comes.
lmintnewb2

Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by lmintnewb2 »

Hey nothing wrong with that my friend. Never owned one but always heard Apple tech is high quality all the way. If so inclined can always buy a cheaper used android device to mess around with too. Though yeah, it's just like learning gnu/nix, can be time intensive.

How much you want to learn, what you want to do and how badly you want to do it etc. I apologize to the OP if my posts came off as adversarial, wasn't really meant that way.

Will stop Android fanboi'ing all over the place here. :) Got into the mobile form factor a bit late. Still too much to learn about gnu/nix on other more conventional form factors but am really intrigued and impressed by all the cool stuff someone can do with Android.
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by jimallyn »

InkKnife wrote:Windows just works, OSX just works, iOS just works, desktop Linux just works, Android, works if you have a high level of technical expertise and are willing to go thru the hassle of flashing the rom which could brick your phone if things go sideways.
You don't see a problem there?
That's not my experience at all. My Samsung Android phone just works. I haven't rooted it nor have I installed a new OS on it. I have considered rooting it and installing CynogenMod (now LineageOS) for the same reason people climb Mt. Everest: because it's there. But the phone works great just the way it came.
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z31fanatic
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by z31fanatic »

exploder wrote: My phone is fast, reliable, does everything I want and gets regular updates. I had always gone with cheaper phones for myself in the past and I got what I paid for.... I would definitely buy another iPhone when the time comes.
Now try a MacBook or an iMac. You'll never want a computer from another manufacturer again. :mrgreen:
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by Kevin19 »

If I were to choose between Iphone and sndroid phone, I still prefer android phone, either Sony Ericson or Samsung.
Why? Because android phones is much cheaper than Iphone and android phones are very easy to modify/customize.
And most importantly, unlike Iphones, when you have to reset or reformat android phones it is easier to fix using steps and procedures shared and posted online (specifically youtube or forums).
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Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by Portreve »

InkKnife wrote:New phone time has come around and again I delve deep into reviews and tech reports trying to find that great deal in a good phone and every-time new phone season comes around for me I think that this time I will shrug of the Apple shackles and adorn myself with shiny new shackles from Google.
And just like 2 years ago and 4 years ago I am going to get another iPhone.
I share many of your frustrations, InkKnife; nevertheless, I feel obligated to start by saying this post seems terribly passive-aggressive. Given social media's impact on humankind's psychology, I guess this is the "new norm", so I'll just let it pass¹.

For me, using iOS simply is not an acceptable option. That is to say, if my only options were using a dumbphone or an iOS-based smart phone, I would go with a dumb phone every time. I agree that fragmentation, which is the formal word for most of what you are bemoaning, is awful, and it is causing me to start looking elsewhere² regarding my own future technology roadpath.

Alphabet (nee Google) completely screwed the pooch, perhaps not initially, but as the iterations of the Android platform have rolled on, where licensing and distribution, and all the standards which undergird it, are concerned. Of course, alternatively, that's what's informed my own decisions about buying Google-branded hardware exclusively. I can't stand a phone maker's — or, worse yet, a carrier's — half-baked ideas of user interface design or tweaks to it. Like you, I cannot abide the bloat they force onto the phone (which you cannot naturally³ get rid of), and I also refuse to ever have a carrier-locked phone again. To echo the sentiment I expressed above, if my choices were to buy a carrier-locked phone and not have a phone, I would now choose to no longer own a phone, every time, every day.

  • ¹ But not without comment.

    ² I'm presently looking at Canonical's UbuntuTouch-based smartphone platform, and keeping a very careful eye on where they're going, how they are handling licensing, and what their own product roadpath is going to be.

    ³ That is to say, without resorting to some form of hacking one's phone, or deliberately using a community ROM expressly and solely for that purpose.
Your humble Portreve.

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lmintnewb2

Re: I keep trying to go Android.

Post by lmintnewb2 »

One more babbling mess.

The fact that oems and carriers can easily modify and config Android and low or no costs for software licensing is one of the key reasons androids so widespread and can be dirt cheap for consumers vs m$ and Apple's offerings.
Also +1 on only buying factory unlocked devices. Next phone I get, will not only be mod-friendly but also wanting one that supports both gsm and CDMA too.


Not to mention someone can do an endless # of cool things with and customizations to their Android devices, again esp with a mod-friendly model. Have seen the people displeased with this fragmentation thing but are many work arounds to deal with it to whatever extent.

Personally just don't get people not wanting root privileges on their stuff but each their own. Like the person above have spent time looking over the pure gnu/linux projs targeting mobile and will likely eventually migrate to using one of them on mobile tech gadgets. Till then it's android for me.

I mean wth, gnu/linux has been powering everything from smartphones to submarines forever already. Just a matter of time before the amazing folks behind open source gain momentum in mobile.

Also just for me, don't plan on ever slapping down $500 or more bucks for a phone, what am I, Donald trump? ;)
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