Kids can't use computers

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Moem
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Kids can't use computers

Post by Moem » Tue May 02, 2017 5:31 am

I found this four year old blog post and it really struck a chord with me. How about you?
Kids can't use computers
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by Jedinovice » Tue May 02, 2017 6:08 am

Obviously this is all very complex but I would argue that the reason the vast majority of users are technically illiterate is sheer lack of interest.

Technology - the ins and outs - only interest certain personality types in the main. The classic 'techie' in Myers-Briggs typology is the INTP. Linux Torvalds is your quintessential INTP down to the 'I don't care what you think you think about me, this is how it is' attitude. That's about 2-5% of the population at best.

[I am an INFP who got into science fiction. But I have no interest in engine repairs so I don't bother to learn. Also, owning a car here in Indonesia is a bit stupid for multiple reasons.]

Computing is actually very Intuitive int he psychological sense. It is about what is unseen, abstract. You kind of have to imagine data bytes being copied over, data transmitted by wireless or how a chip understands code. you cannot actually see it. And 75% of the population of the world are biased towards the five senses.

I think asking people to be computer proficient is working against human nature. The vast majority are just not interested and that will always be the case. Smartphones are what they want and smartphones are what they use because it is about selfies and facebook.

I do not think you can change that even with education. You're fighting human nature.
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by Pierre » Tue May 02, 2017 6:46 am

Ah - - Yes, I've remembered that article, from somewhere in the past.
8)

and it's surely quite a Truism in Life.
:o
maybe, 20 odd years ago, it was a bonus, if you could indeed operate a Computer.
in fact, you could often score a promotion @ work, if you could demonstrate the fact.

these days, most PC users, are just that - - an User, not a Geek, or a Guru.
& that explains a lot - - all those Ransomware screens, some even are Faked .. ..
- there is actually not many Virus events, these days, at least not in my area.

but - - that article - really does hit a chord & the Dude is just the part-time IT Guru,
as he's the actual Dude who Teaches about Computers.
:lol:
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Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by Pjotr » Tue May 02, 2017 6:49 am

I taught my children to do a clean installation on their computers of the latest Ubuntu LTS / Xubuntu LTS / Linux Mint, every two years. The motivation was simple: they could earn € 20,-- by it. :mrgreen:

Required was an unassisted clean installation with only a how-to as guide, followed by applying an (equally unassisted) to-do list after installation. They did that successfully three times in six years. Now they're adults, they're above average in digital skills....
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by English Invader » Tue May 02, 2017 6:56 am

This made me laugh:
TL;DR? Why not just go watch another five second video of a kitten with its head in a toilet roll, or a 140 character description of a meal your friend just stuffed in their mouth. "nom nom". This blog post is not for you.

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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by coffee412 » Tue May 02, 2017 8:51 am

IMHO, People today do not know how to use much of anything. Something has gone wrong with people. Im not complaining that people in general should be able to setup a server or a large network. But they should understand what a browser is and how to connect to the internet - but they really do not. I think (right now) that this is the fault of companies like M$. The reasoning is that 'Make it as simple as possible' and this will increase the profit margin for the company. However, The downside to this is that you sacrifice learning and dumb down the population as a whole.

Today there is so much more opportunity to learn but no one is taking the time to learn. We have Youtube videos, Websites and more filled with valuable information that all you have to do is go there and learn all you want. Still, Most people never bother. Instead they sit in front of the TV and watch some sitcom. To be fair, There is a segment of the population that just does not have the time to spend hours reading or watching a video on how to get something done. They are busy with life's challenges - kids, work ect. I understand that.

In schools, Kids should not be isolated to just M$ products. This raises a generation of people that do not understand the basics of computers and totally depend on seeing a familiar icon (Internet Explorer) otherwise they have no idea what to do. These kids get no exposure to the alternate operating systems (except apple) and the computers they are exposed to are so neutered (software wise) that they give up understanding the idea behind it and just "Click this button to do this".

What I find most interesting is that we have raised a generation of Children that basically do not want to learn. They feel everything is entitled to them. After all, Dad and Mom gave them everything that they wanted - or someone did. Why should this change? They have no practical training when it comes time to leave home on their own. This is reflected in their attitudes towards everything in life. They do not understand the benefits of learning an alternate operating system like linux because most computers use Windows. When you tell them of all the evil that such an operating system has become - like the implications of security they shrug it off with excuses like "I have nothing to hide so why should I care?". I try to teach them that "Because sooner or later there will come a day of reckoning".

I have to blame Corporations and Big Business for most of this. After all, When you start thinking of George Orwell and '1984' we that have had the upbringing to think for ourselves it becomes abundantly clear that 'Big Brother' is not the actual governments but the Corporations in general.

Many times I have told people "Do not store things on 'the cloud' and do not use free email services for anything that you would not put on a post card". But they are so ingrained into the easy way of doing things and having corporations do their thinking for them that sensibility flies out the window.

"Dont worry, Your personal information is safe with us". Except those are the very companies you want to hide it from - and its not safe.
"Dont worry, You do not need to know all that just click this button".

M$, Apple and a host of other corporations have fostered this type of thinking in order to boost their bottom line. They have sold off a whole generation for sake of the mighty dollar.
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by austin.texas » Tue May 02, 2017 9:08 am

coffee412 wrote:do not use free email services for anything that you would not put on a post card
Excellent advice! And, exactly the the way I approach any email (not just the free services).
More than once my daughter has heard "don't put passwords in emails" from me.
Together we can handle tech - I help her with OS's and computing questions, and she helps me with my smart phone. :lol:
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by MintBean » Tue May 02, 2017 9:23 am

Cheers Moem.

That article is absolutely infuriating... but at the same time a pleasure to read. I too loved the opening 'TL;DR' and as I guess many of you did I nodded along with a sense of recognition at the types mentioned in the 'they don't know how to use a computer' section. Incredibly well written,

I'm with Jedi on this; people are largely ignorant regarding computers because they just don't care. Furthermore, in my experience at least, a sizeable portion (but certainly not all) have some kind of unspoken disdain (perhaps subconscious) for those friends and family members who invariably become their unpaid tech support.

It's only going to get worse. I credit the relative ubiquity of computer knowledge amongst people my age to the flickering command prompt we were greeted with on our CRTs when we booted up our 8 bit computers. You wanna play space invaders? Read the computer manual, or at very least the game insert to find out the command to load the game. This would inevitably lead to the question... what else can I type here? Basic was built right in and the computer manual told you how to use it. Can't afford any new computer games? Type one in from a computer magazine and THEN debug your typos to get it working.

Them were the days! Many these days just take it all for granted.

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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by deleted » Tue May 02, 2017 9:33 am

In reality, "Kid's can't use computers", is just a symptom. As parents it is our responsibility to teach critical thinking (not just being critical) and the awe and wonder (and take part) in the world around us. Often we get too involved with our own lives at the expense of that responsibility to our kids. As a dad, my job is not done after I teach the kids to eat and burp. It goes much further than that and it's a 24x7 job. (A job where the pay is the satisfaction of a job well done).
-H

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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by Portreve » Tue May 02, 2017 3:35 pm

It is learned intellectual laziness. Sadly, we now live in a time when DILIGAF has become a factor and one which requires measuring.

My patience with people is in direct proportion to their willingness to be informed and functional. If they can't be bothered, then neither can I.
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by austin.texas » Tue May 02, 2017 3:48 pm

This thread is sort of amusing... :roll:
The person who knows computing says, "How can someone not know this stuff?"
The person who knows mechanics says, "How can anyone not know how to check their oil?"
The person who knows politics says, "How can you not know who your district representative is?"
The person who exercises regularly says, "How could you let yourself get out of shape?"
My daughter says, "How could you not know what instagram is, dad?"
And on, and on...
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by deleted » Tue May 02, 2017 3:52 pm

Portreve wrote:It is learned intellectual laziness. Sadly, we now live in a time when DILIGAF has become a factor and one which requires measuring.

My patience with people is in direct proportion to their willingness to be informed and functional. If they can't be bothered, then neither can I.
You summed it up nicely.
-H

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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by Jedinovice » Tue May 02, 2017 8:22 pm

I will add this quote from my document regarding the rise of the ARM laptop. It speaks for itself.

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=244804&p=1310767#p1310767
I have always hated the games console for what it did to home computers because, when the console market opened up in the early 1990’s I knew it would kill the home computer market, interest in kids in computer technology and everyone would become Microsoft/PC clones. And consoles did just that. The era of computer experimentation ended and was forgotten such that we were surprised when children started playing with technology again.
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by vladtepes » Wed May 03, 2017 1:49 am

Portreve wrote:It is learned intellectual laziness. Sadly, we now live in a time when DILIGAF has become a factor and one which requires measuring.

My patience with people is in direct proportion to their willingness to be informed and functional. If they can't be bothered, then neither can I.
Brilliant ! Well said.
I may even copy, umm plagiarise, umm pay tribute to that, on another forum I'm on.
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by Portreve » Wed May 03, 2017 5:24 pm

vladtepes wrote:
Portreve wrote:It is learned intellectual laziness. Sadly, we now live in a time when DILIGAF has become a factor and one which requires measuring.

My patience with people is in direct proportion to their willingness to be informed and functional. If they can't be bothered, then neither can I.
Brilliant ! Well said.
I may even copy, umm plagiarise, umm pay tribute to that, on another forum I'm on.
Knock yourself out! :D
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by Habitual » Wed May 03, 2017 6:30 pm

Moem wrote:I found this four year old blog post and it really struck a chord with me. How about you?
Kids can't use computers
I used to worry that some "kid half my age and twice as fast" would take my job.
Then I sobered up. :mrgreen:

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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by Portreve » Wed May 03, 2017 7:41 pm

Habitual wrote:
Moem wrote:I found this four year old blog post and it really struck a chord with me. How about you?
Kids can't use computers
I used to worry that some "kid half my age and twice as fast" would take my job.
Then I sobered up. :mrgreen:
Well...

The thing is that kids "half our age" often aren't even remotely up to the challenges necessary because there's just all kinds of experiential knowledge and maturation they simply do not possess.

The flip side of that coin is often the folks "in charge" don't have any of that, either, and in any event it seems to an increasing degree that legitimate competence and knowledge, even though it's talked about, really no longer matters, since companies it seems often don't really care how good of a job they do, so long as they get their money.

So, frankly, I'm not really convinced how "safe" any of us are.
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by BenTrabetere » Thu May 04, 2017 2:21 am

I guess I am the only person who felt sympathy for the twenty-something with the MacBook or thought the blogger deserved a good trout-slapping.

Every time I see a statement like "Kids can't use computers" I recall a story Bob Hope used to tell about the round of golf he played with professional golfer, Jan Stephenson. He asked how she liked his game and she replied, “Well, it’s OK, but I still prefer golf.”

I am sure the twenty-something knew how to connect to a WiFi network - the blogger was merely following Twain's “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story” maxim. I suspect she did try to connect to the WiFi network, and when her attempts to connect failed she asked for help. I cannot fault her for that. Also, I cannot fault a visitor for being unaware of the proxy server or its settings. I suspect this was a first-time substitute teacher on the verge of a nervous breakdown because she could not get her computer to work with the school's system.

I am sure I would invite this blogger's ridicule if I were invited to make a presentation at his school. If my first couple of attempts trying to connect to the system failed, I would stop trying. I don't see the point wasting my time trying to figure out the WiFi or the A / V equipment when I can hand my computer to someone familiar with the system and equipment.

Yes, there are stupid users who make stupid mistakes. There also are expert users who do stupid things. I doubt any of the blogger's lusers will ever use the -R option one directory higher than intended.

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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by ColdBoot » Thu May 04, 2017 5:37 pm

austin.texas wrote:This thread is sort of amusing... :roll:
The person who knows computing says, "How can someone not know this stuff?"
The person who knows mechanics says, "How can anyone not know how to check their oil?"
The person who knows politics says, "How can you not know who your district representative is?"
The person who exercises regularly says, "How could you let yourself get out of shape?"
My daughter says, "How could you not know what instagram is, dad?"
And on, and on...
:lol: So true... :mrgreen:
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Re: Kids can't use computers

Post by vladtepes » Fri May 05, 2017 1:42 am

Speaking of bloggers....

Both will tell you largely unreliable, unverified information.
The only difference between a newsreader and a blogger is that the newsreader is more likley to be attractive....
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