Page 4 of 4

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:22 am
by BeHarley
Fred Barclay wrote:
BeHarley wrote: When you hit 25 or 30, it starts to decline and you tend to judge others on your experience rather than setting a new lens for the view.
But when you're younger than 25 or 30, you tend to judge others on your inexperience. :P
Learning goes away real quick after 30s.
I don't know about that. I've known people much older than me that could pick up on things much faster than I could, and use that knowledge much better.

Some people have more grasping power than others. But what I have read, scientifically, it says, people over 30s, their learning curve declines.

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:32 am
by coffee412
No kidding about the cash register comment!

How many times I walk into a store and they never count the change back to me. Sometimes I will ask nicely "I dont think I have the right change?" and I watch them. The first thing they do is look at the cash register. lol..

I really worry about what they teach kids in school now a days. They surely are not teaching them what they really should know. Then as they get out into the working world they complain that they are not earning enough money on the hourly wage. But they still cannot count back change. Something to think about. :)

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:52 am
by richlion2
An old article, I've read it a long time ago, but still can trigger some responses. The main things that strike me is that if "kids know more than adults about computers than adults", then why are there any IT teachers still around?

The other thing is that it touches a pretty much common conception about those who come to a place and expect an IT person to help them in 5 minutes without taking the time to come early and anticipate problems and get prepared for the presentation. That's the problem with today's society.

When I was at school I would have been expected to be prepared for the new lesson - meaning read something before the lesson to ask proper questions or review the previous lesson to answer teachers questions.

Coming to a remote office and not being prepared for a meeting is one of the must infuriating things I see around me. It is common practice now when we arrive at 8AM at work we have one or two people already at our desk talking to us about "things not working in the meeting room, can you please help?"

I do agree with those who mention the $MS syndrome. This makes people just pure lazy especially kids at school. They stop exploring the world the way my generation did. I used to build my own radios, amplifiers from discrete parts soldered together before I even had any science lessons. These day it's just a "facebook society".

My 2c
Richard

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:41 am
by Jeffex
I am 59, my daughters, who are in their 20's, come to me with "dad, Netflix won't load", "my laptop is really slow!", "HEEEELP!!!"
I compare it to cars. A lot of people drive cars but have no idea what may be wrong when it suddenly won't start.

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:32 pm
by austin.texas
Yesterday, I had a problem, so I called Georgie , the 13 year old next door, whose bedroom looks like Mission Control, and asked him to come over.
Georgie clicked a couple of buttons and solved the problem.
As he was walking away, I called after him, 'So, what was wrong?
He replied, 'It was an ID ten T error.'
I didn't want to appear stupid, but nonetheless inquired, 'An, ID ten T error? What's that? In case I need to fix it again.'
Georgie grinned .. 'Haven't you ever heard of an ID ten T error before?
'No,' I replied.
'Write it down,' he said, 'and I think you'll figure it out.'
So I wrote down:
ID10T
I used to like Georgie...

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:43 pm
by Arch_Enemy
coffee412 wrote:No kidding about the cash register comment!

How many times I walk into a store and they never count the change back to me. Sometimes I will ask nicely "I dont think I have the right change?" and I watch them. The first thing they do is look at the cash register. lol..

I really worry about what they teach kids in school now a days. They surely are not teaching them what they really should know. Then as they get out into the working world they complain that they are not earning enough money on the hourly wage. But they still cannot count back change. Something to think about. :)
Because of the policies of this forum, we really cant discuss what they're being indoct...er...taught in schools these days. :wink:

However, it sure isn't what they need to get them through life, unless it's "Do you want fries with that?"

It's the self-starters that prosper now.

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:45 pm
by Arch_Enemy
austin.texas wrote:Yesterday, I had a problem, so I called Georgie , the 13 year old next door, whose bedroom looks like Mission Control, and asked him to come over.
Georgie clicked a couple of buttons and solved the problem.
As he was walking away, I called after him, 'So, what was wrong?
He replied, 'It was an ID ten T error.'
I didn't want to appear stupid, but nonetheless inquired, 'An, ID ten T error? What's that? In case I need to fix it again.'
Georgie grinned .. 'Haven't you ever heard of an ID ten T error before?
'No,' I replied.
'Write it down,' he said, 'and I think you'll figure it out.'
So I wrote down:
ID10T
I used to like Georgie...
<SNERK!>

(I was laughing so hard I could barely type! :D )

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:09 pm
by Bolle1961
austin.texas wrote: I used to like Georgie...
I like his humour :D :lol:

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:07 am
by thx-1138
...stumbled upon this Slashdot article & i remembered this thread...
It refers to programming, not just daily using...but the underlying root of the problem is rather closely connected i'd think.
Also (spotted in the comments above), something very interesting for parents to consider for their kids...

And well - no, sadly they can't. In a few decades, we've gone from the "no patience to read a book" to..."no patience to read a tutorial".
Soon (if not already), even double clicky-click will both confuse & frustrate them: "Siri, do this for me".
AI communicating with biotechnology (implants) will most likely work around this kind of 'obstacle' eventually in the next decades.

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:17 am
by catweazel
thx-1138 wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:07 am
i remembered this thread...
Please let dead threads rest in peace.

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:13 am
by Moem
The 'dead threads' rule exists because in support topics, old threads make for confusion because they are usually about different versions of Mint. Here in the Open Chat section, there are no support topics, so that rule doesn't apply here.
No one objects to the Mint Café thread being resurrected again and again, after all. Same thing.

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:20 am
by catweazel
Moem wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:13 am
The 'dead threads' rule exists because in support topics, old threads make for confusion because they are usually about different versions of Mint. Here in the Open Chat section, there are no support topics, so that rule doesn't apply here.
No one objects to the Mint Café thread being resurrected again and again, after all. Same thing.
Ok, fair enough. My apologies to thx-1138 .

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:41 pm
by Arch_Enemy
thx-1138 wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:07 am
...stumbled upon this Slashdot article & i remembered this thread...
It refers to programming, not just daily using...but the underlying root of the problem is rather closely connected i'd think.
Also (spotted in the comments above), something very interesting for parents to consider for their kids...

And well - no, sadly they can't. In a few decades, we've gone from the "no patience to read a book" to..."no patience to read a tutorial".
Soon (if not already), even double clicky-click will both confuse & frustrate them: "Siri, do this for me".
AI communicating with biotechnology (implants) will most likely work around this kind of 'obstacle' eventually in the next decades.
They changed my job, gave me a desk, and a computer. Running Windows 10.

One word: "Ugh".

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:58 am
by russellz
I think that one problem here is that there is no clear nominative distinction between the educational requirements for suers (those who just want to use Word, Excel, etc., for business or liesure), maintainers (who need to keep the computers running==) and designers.

When I was at grammar school in the early 1960s there was a subject called "Commerce and accountancy". That was basically office work and has now been replaced by "IT" but is basically the same thing brought up to date by the use of modern tools to replace the typewriter, filing cabinet, and comptometer.

When I went to university to study electronics I learned how to make AND and OR gates out of transistors and resistors and how to use them to design half adders and full adders. For my masters degree project I designed a floating point arithmetic unit for the maths department's Honeywell computer. I wonder how many of todays "computer experts" could do that now. Of course you could say the it is not necessary but should it be necessary for typical users to learn to use the command line or install an O.S.

Since the late 1970s my career took me away from the nuts and bolts of computers and operating systems so I am rather out of date but in my retirement I am happily learning and experimenting and can usually get things working again if I mess things up.

Russell

Re: Kids can't use computers

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:18 pm
by Portreve
russellz wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:58 am
When I went to university to study electronics I learned how to make AND and OR gates out of transistors and resistors and how to use them to design half adders and full adders. For my masters degree project I designed a floating point arithmetic unit for the maths department's Honeywell computer. I wonder how many of todays "computer experts" could do that now. Of course you could say the it is not necessary but should it be necessary for typical users to learn to use the command line or install an O.S.
I think the point you're really trying to make is that something is missing when we don't teach the deep fundamentals of why what exists exists, and how what exists works.

I've often said that today's engineers are not the equal of those of a couple generations ago. I've tried to imagine today's engineers being the ones designing the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo/Saturn systems, establishing the world-wide deep space communications network, etc. Honestly, I don't think they would be even remotely up to the task.

Because most people's eyes tend to glaze over when I try and explain to them what it was the NACA -> NASA transition was like, and what the scientists, engineers, and planners had to do during the 1960s, I usually use something like the following analogy:

Imagine that you want to go into business selling groceries. However, in order to do this, you have to come up with a design for a business place for customers to do business with you. You have to invent asphalt and the means to pack the ground down, and the means to lay the asphalt, but then also study the impacts of it and realize you can't just lay asphalt, you have to coat it and then seal it. Oh, and then you need to implement parking spaces with a navigable means for cars to enter the property and move about.

You have to also find a way to bring building design into the modern era, which means you have to take the concept of cement and make concrete out of it, and build the tools that let you build the forms into which you can then pour liquid cement to form into blocks. But, you also have to make the tools to build the machines to make the finished concrete product to have poured it into the forms in the first place. You also have to come up with the concept of sidewalks, and the concrete foundation and pad itself. You have to also find ways to take wrought iron and transform it into steel, and for certain applications, turn it into stainless steel. Also, what measurement system are you going to use? You'll need to either pick one, or invent one. You also need to find out what the optimal recipe and dry/hardening time and process for the aforementioned concrete is, so you don't build walls that just crumble under their own weight. Also, how about electrical wiring in the building so you can have light? Has air condition been invented yet, or do you have to invent that, too?

I mean, there were rudiments and fundamentals drawn upon by NASA and their contractors and sub-contractors (it's not like NASA invented aviation) but the people doing this collectively had to draw on what was known, and in many cases what was only speculated on, and then try and build from what were, by any practical definition, rudimentary building blocks.

For example, when MIT designed the Apollo Guidance Computer, nobody had ever used that sort of miniaturized electronic circuitry before. Computers then were still largely made from wires and various types of vacuum tubes and resistors. They had to use the literally brand new thing called "transistors" invented by Hewlett-Packard, and then also invent lots and lots and lots of logic circuits, and manually build multi-thousand transistor logic banks from actual transistors. They had to also devise a means of permanent storage which was not just compact, but relatively invulnerable to radiation. Remember, the Command and Service Module (CSM) and Lunar Module had to pass through the lower and upper Van Allen belts (only discovered during the 1950s) and deal with Sol's (that's our sun) and other stars' cosmic rays. So, they had to invent a way to use wire itself, with ferrite core rings, and literally weave a pattern of wires inside and outside of those rings (this, btw, is called "rope memory"). This is in addition to the usual design process that goes into building any piece of equipment.

There were literally thousands and thousands of instances of this exact sort of thing that went on, and all of this never-been-done-before, get-your-hands-dirty, no-tools-to-automate-the-process type of work would, I think be beyond the mental capacity and the maturity (and possibly the attention span) of engineering folk today.