ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre,Meltdown,Foreshadow, flaws)

Chat about just about anything else
Forum rules
Do not post support questions here. Before you post read the forum rules. Topics in this forum are automatically closed 30 days after creation.
User avatar
Terryphi
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:30 am
Location: West Wales. UK
Contact:

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by Terryphi »

Totally confusing! I can see no mention of Intel Core i5-4460.
Image
Version: LM 21.3 64bit Mate "If something is worth doing, it is worth doing for free."
User avatar
xenopeek
Level 25
Level 25
Posts: 29507
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:58 am

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by xenopeek »

Terryphi wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:26 am Totally confusing! I can see no mention of Intel Core i5-4460.
That's a Haswell generation chip. (If you google "i5-4460 wikipedia" you'd find that here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... re,_22_nm).)

Haswell is listed on that PDF.
Image
User avatar
Terryphi
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 254
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:30 am
Location: West Wales. UK
Contact:

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by Terryphi »

Thanks for your reply and wikipedia link xenopeek. I saw no mention of Haswell-DT or i5-4460, but there is reference in the PDF to other
Haswell.
Image
Version: LM 21.3 64bit Mate "If something is worth doing, it is worth doing for free."
Harfud
Level 2
Level 2
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:38 pm

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by Harfud »

I found my 2014 Celeron N on the Intel PDF, but not my 2007 vintage Core 2 Duo T7500 or Core 2 Quad Q6600s

So it looks like microcode for my three 2007 vintage CPUs may never come and my hopes need to be pinned on retpoline in the longer term.

The T7500 will soon run LMDE3 and the two Q6600s will run Mint 19 come the Summer.
michael louwe

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe »

Harfud wrote: Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:39 am This looks like an Intel plan as to which CPUs are going to receive updated microcode and when, dated 26th Feb so it's very recent...

https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/u ... idance.pdf
.
Also, ... http://news.softpedia.com/news/intel-fi ... 9995.shtml (28 Feb 2018 - intel-finally-releases-spectre-patches-for-broadwell-and-haswell-processors)
Lucap
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1038
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by Lucap »

Spectre haunts Intel's SGX defense: CPU flaws can be exploited to snoop on enclaves And no, you're not supposed to be able to do that

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/0 ... ntels_sgx/
The Reptoline software-only mitigations don't protect SGX against SgxPectre, the researchers said. Intel is aware of their work, we're told.
User avatar
thx-1138
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2092
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:15 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by thx-1138 »

The Reptoline software-only mitigations don't protect SGX against SgxPectre, the researchers said. Intel is aware of their work, we're told.
...SGX exists only on 6th-gen & afterwards Intel processors, ie. after 2015 - earlier ones don't have such.
But even on those newer ones, it's totally non-existent in any Linux 'desktop' so far (personally, i also kinda doubt it will gain considerable attraction any time soon, but who knows...)
michael louwe

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe »

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... melt&num=1 (5 Mar 2018 - Fresh Linux 4.16 Kernel Benchmarks With KPTI & Retpolines)
michael louwe

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe »

http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-1 ... 0158.shtml
(9 Mar 2018 - Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Gets Compiler-Based Retpoline Kernel Mitigation for Spectre V2)
User avatar
thx-1138
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2092
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:15 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by thx-1138 »

...newer microcode package released:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/downlo ... a-File?v=t
ccprog
Level 1
Level 1
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun May 17, 2015 6:04 pm

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by ccprog »

If anyone is wondering like me what to do with the new microcode files, this worked for me:
  1. Make sure package intel-microcode is installed. It currently includes older microcode files, but they can be overwritten.
  2. Remove all files in /lib/firmware/intel-ucode/ and replace them with the files from the intel-ucode/ directory of the Intel download.
  3. Run as root

    Code: Select all

    update-initramfs -u
    to include the update in the initial ramdisk for the current kernel
  4. Reboot
Otherwise, you could wait for an updated version of intel-microcode. Then, the the ramdisk update will run automatically as part of the package installation.
G-Mo

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by G-Mo »

Great write-up and it looks like the newer patch added many missing CPU models from the first release. I'm guessing this may pop soon in Update Manager?
User avatar
smurphos
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8501
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:18 am
Location: Irish Brit in Portugal
Contact:

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by smurphos »

G-Mo wrote: Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:13 am Great write-up and it looks like the newer patch added many missing CPU models from the first release. I'm guessing this may pop soon in Update Manager?
It's in the proposed/testing PPA - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security- ... ubuntu/ppa
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.
User avatar
thx-1138
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2092
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:15 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by thx-1138 »

...and for the record:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... ug/1755624
(moral of the story - do not rush...let others do first the guinea pig testing...)
michael louwe

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe »

http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-spec ... f-of-2018/ (15 Mar 2018 - Intel: Spectre-proof CPUs will ship in second half of 2018)

Intel processors are more vulnerable to the Spectre bugs because of the performance features - branch prediction and speculative execution. That is why the Spectre patches introduce performance hits of up to 15% to the Intel processors.

Now the Spectre patches and the performance hit will be built-in to new Intel processors. Might as well buy new AMD processors which are cheaper than Intel's.
michael louwe

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe »

http://news.softpedia.com/news/after-me ... 0433.shtml
(After Meltdown and Spectre, Intel CPUs Are Now Vulnerable to BranchScope Attacks - 28 March 2018)
.
There may be no end to Intel CPU vulnerability as long as Intel uses branch prediction and speculative execution to create "fake-speed" in her chips, in order to out-market AMD chips.
rene
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 12240
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by rene »

michael louwe wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 am There may be no end to Intel CPU vulnerability as long as Intel uses branch prediction and speculative execution to create "fake-speed" in her chips, in order to out-market AMD chips.

Michael, please note that AMD processors use branch prediction and speculative execution just as well -- and are as you know as such vulnerable to Spectre as well, which means I'm also not getting why you'd even think they do not.

Those techniques are simply the state of the science and there's absolutely nothing "fake", "dishonest" or whatever it is you intend to convey here about the speed advantages gained by using them. You are creating a false dichotomy; as I also commented earlier, to you even, it's not speculative execution or not but speculative execution that is really undetectable at the macro level or not: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=260764&start=100#p1410027.

Certainly even that isn't a true dichotomy, but definitely speculative execution or not or, much worse still, Intel or AMD is not. Both use speculative execution and the additional exposure of Intel versus AMD in the shape of Meltdown is caused only by different internal micro-architecture wrt. protection-ordering. The only thing Intel did wrong was on a technical level and in a manner undetected by any and all experts the world over for more than a decade. They got a bug. It happens a lot in the IT-scape. We'll get over it.
michael louwe

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe »

@ rene, .......
rene wrote:.
.
Yes, you are correct, ie AMD also uses speculative execution but different implementation. My apologies.

Intel had probably mis-designed the Meltdown & Spectre bugs/vulnerabilities into her CPUs while in the haste to out-market AMD.

IMO, speculative execution(SE) should not have been adopted by the tech industry during the 1990s, either for performance(= "fake-speed") or security sake, ... since the Meltdown & Spectre mitigation or patches against the SE and BP(= branch prediction) vulnerabilities can result in a performance hit of about 20% for certain scenarios, eg Intel CPUs used as web-servers or for Cloud services.

Mitigation for this new and similar Branchscope vulnerability will likely result in additional performance hits to Intel CPUs = 30% in total.? Will Intel also need to bake-in this mitigation into their future CPUs in 2019.?

Like they say, "Slow and steady", rather than "Fast and buggy".

.
P S - BP and SE use up your RAM memory during their ever-ongoing predictive and speculative operations. One of the reasons, 4GB of RAM today never seems enough. It's like Windows and browser bloat, eg the Win 10 ISO file is about 4GB in size.
....... Also, all the extra electricity being consumed by all the branch prediction and speculative execution going on with the CPUs.
Last edited by michael louwe on Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
rene
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 12240
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by rene »

michael louwe wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:24 am Like they say, "Slow and steady", rather than "Fast and buggy".
Like I say personally, "Screw slow and steady". :-)
rene
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 12240
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by rene »

As to your later edit:
michael louwe wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:24 am P S - BP and SE use up your RAM memory during their ever-going predictive and speculative operations.
Note that this is fully nonsensical. Speculative execution makes for no, zilch, zero, additional demands on RAM size. Please specify in more detail if you have something specific in mind because frankly, the statement makes so little sense that I cannot even think of anything.
Locked

Return to “Open Chat”