ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre,Meltdown,Foreshadow, flaws)

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Terryphi
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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by Terryphi » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:26 am

Totally confusing! I can see no mention of Intel Core i5-4460.
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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by xenopeek » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:37 am

Terryphi wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:26 am
Totally confusing! I can see no mention of Intel Core i5-4460.
That's a Haswell generation chip. (If you google "i5-4460 wikipedia" you'd find that here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... re,_22_nm).)

Haswell is listed on that PDF.
Image

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by Terryphi » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:52 am

Thanks for your reply and wikipedia link xenopeek. I saw no mention of Haswell-DT or i5-4460, but there is reference in the PDF to other
Haswell.
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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by Harfud » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:47 am

I found my 2014 Celeron N on the Intel PDF, but not my 2007 vintage Core 2 Duo T7500 or Core 2 Quad Q6600s

So it looks like microcode for my three 2007 vintage CPUs may never come and my hopes need to be pinned on retpoline in the longer term.

The T7500 will soon run LMDE3 and the two Q6600s will run Mint 19 come the Summer.

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:43 am

Harfud wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:39 am
This looks like an Intel plan as to which CPUs are going to receive updated microcode and when, dated 26th Feb so it's very recent...

https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/u ... idance.pdf
.
Also, ... http://news.softpedia.com/news/intel-fi ... 9995.shtml (28 Feb 2018 - intel-finally-releases-spectre-patches-for-broadwell-and-haswell-processors)

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by Lucap » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:14 am

Spectre haunts Intel's SGX defense: CPU flaws can be exploited to snoop on enclaves And no, you're not supposed to be able to do that

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/03/0 ... ntels_sgx/
The Reptoline software-only mitigations don't protect SGX against SgxPectre, the researchers said. Intel is aware of their work, we're told.

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by thx-1138 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:33 am

The Reptoline software-only mitigations don't protect SGX against SgxPectre, the researchers said. Intel is aware of their work, we're told.
...SGX exists only on 6th-gen & afterwards Intel processors, ie. after 2015 - earlier ones don't have such.
But even on those newer ones, it's totally non-existent in any Linux 'desktop' so far (personally, i also kinda doubt it will gain considerable attraction any time soon, but who knows...)

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:53 am

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... melt&num=1 (5 Mar 2018 - Fresh Linux 4.16 Kernel Benchmarks With KPTI & Retpolines)

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:04 am

http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-1 ... 0158.shtml
(9 Mar 2018 - Ubuntu 14.04 LTS Gets Compiler-Based Retpoline Kernel Mitigation for Spectre V2)

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by thx-1138 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:42 am

...newer microcode package released:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/downlo ... a-File?v=t

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by ccprog » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:57 pm

If anyone is wondering like me what to do with the new microcode files, this worked for me:
  1. Make sure package intel-microcode is installed. It currently includes older microcode files, but they can be overwritten.
  2. Remove all files in /lib/firmware/intel-ucode/ and replace them with the files from the intel-ucode/ directory of the Intel download.
  3. Run as root

    Code: Select all

    update-initramfs -u
    to include the update in the initial ramdisk for the current kernel
  4. Reboot
Otherwise, you could wait for an updated version of intel-microcode. Then, the the ramdisk update will run automatically as part of the package installation.

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by G-Mo » Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:13 am

Great write-up and it looks like the newer patch added many missing CPU models from the first release. I'm guessing this may pop soon in Update Manager?

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by smurphos » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:04 am

G-Mo wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 1:13 am
Great write-up and it looks like the newer patch added many missing CPU models from the first release. I'm guessing this may pop soon in Update Manager?
It's in the proposed/testing PPA - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-security- ... ubuntu/ppa

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by thx-1138 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:19 am

...and for the record:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... ug/1755624
(moral of the story - do not rush...let others do first the guinea pig testing...)

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:15 pm

http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-spec ... f-of-2018/ (15 Mar 2018 - Intel: Spectre-proof CPUs will ship in second half of 2018)

Intel processors are more vulnerable to the Spectre bugs because of the performance features - branch prediction and speculative execution. That is why the Spectre patches introduce performance hits of up to 15% to the Intel processors.

Now the Spectre patches and the performance hit will be built-in to new Intel processors. Might as well buy new AMD processors which are cheaper than Intel's.

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 am

http://news.softpedia.com/news/after-me ... 0433.shtml
(After Meltdown and Spectre, Intel CPUs Are Now Vulnerable to BranchScope Attacks - 28 March 2018)
.
There may be no end to Intel CPU vulnerability as long as Intel uses branch prediction and speculative execution to create "fake-speed" in her chips, in order to out-market AMD chips.

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by rene » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:37 am

michael louwe wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:05 am
There may be no end to Intel CPU vulnerability as long as Intel uses branch prediction and speculative execution to create "fake-speed" in her chips, in order to out-market AMD chips.

Michael, please note that AMD processors use branch prediction and speculative execution just as well -- and are as you know as such vulnerable to Spectre as well, which means I'm also not getting why you'd even think they do not.

Those techniques are simply the state of the science and there's absolutely nothing "fake", "dishonest" or whatever it is you intend to convey here about the speed advantages gained by using them. You are creating a false dichotomy; as I also commented earlier, to you even, it's not speculative execution or not but speculative execution that is really undetectable at the macro level or not: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=260764&start=100#p1410027.

Certainly even that isn't a true dichotomy, but definitely speculative execution or not or, much worse still, Intel or AMD is not. Both use speculative execution and the additional exposure of Intel versus AMD in the shape of Meltdown is caused only by different internal micro-architecture wrt. protection-ordering. The only thing Intel did wrong was on a technical level and in a manner undetected by any and all experts the world over for more than a decade. They got a bug. It happens a lot in the IT-scape. We'll get over it.

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by michael louwe » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:24 am

@ rene, .......
rene wrote:.
.
Yes, you are correct, ie AMD also uses speculative execution but different implementation. My apologies.

Intel had probably mis-designed the Meltdown & Spectre bugs/vulnerabilities into her CPUs while in the haste to out-market AMD.

IMO, speculative execution(SE) should not have been adopted by the tech industry during the 1990s, either for performance(= "fake-speed") or security sake, ... since the Meltdown & Spectre mitigation or patches against the SE and BP(= branch prediction) vulnerabilities can result in a performance hit of about 20% for certain scenarios, eg Intel CPUs used as web-servers or for Cloud services.

Mitigation for this new and similar Branchscope vulnerability will likely result in additional performance hits to Intel CPUs = 30% in total.? Will Intel also need to bake-in this mitigation into their future CPUs in 2019.?

Like they say, "Slow and steady", rather than "Fast and buggy".

.
P S - BP and SE use up your RAM memory during their ever-ongoing predictive and speculative operations. One of the reasons, 4GB of RAM today never seems enough. It's like Windows and browser bloat, eg the Win 10 ISO file is about 4GB in size.
....... Also, all the extra electricity being consumed by all the branch prediction and speculative execution going on with the CPUs.
Last edited by michael louwe on Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by rene » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:35 am

michael louwe wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:24 am
Like they say, "Slow and steady", rather than "Fast and buggy".
Like I say personally, "Screw slow and steady". :-)

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Re: ATTN!...Intel CPU owners (Spectre & Meltdown flaws)

Post by rene » Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:46 am

As to your later edit:
michael louwe wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:24 am
P S - BP and SE use up your RAM memory during their ever-going predictive and speculative operations.
Note that this is fully nonsensical. Speculative execution makes for no, zilch, zero, additional demands on RAM size. Please specify in more detail if you have something specific in mind because frankly, the statement makes so little sense that I cannot even think of anything.

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