Avoiding IoT

Chat about just about anything else
mike acker
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1403
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:29 pm
Location: Kalamazoo, MI

Avoiding IoT

Post by mike acker » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:46 am

as most of us here are well aware the "Internet of Things" (IoT) is a priority target for hackers.

and with considerable success

It is my view that there are four main factors at play here:
  • Programs having excess capability -- e.g. a browser script should have never been able to access the Spectre/Meltdown issue;
  • general lack of authenticaton for transactions -- x.509 is better than nothing but certificates need to be countersigned: there are way too many x.509 certs published; as a result we all need to digitaly sign just the few -- maybe a dozen -- certs. that we actually use;
  • insecure operating software with 1 partucular type in mind, what i like to call the "Gaterbox";
  • complete lack of product liability law;
perhaps i should add: generally poor security practice at the commercial level. You can read about ATM heists and Tax Refund problems at Krebs this morning

Krebs on tax fraud
Krebs on ATM Jackpotting

In the jackpotting the thugs just opened the ATM a changed out the hard drive. As Charlie Brown would say: "Good Grief".

When it comes to IoT: Just say no. a much deeper question should ask: is electronic commerce suitable to purpose for people today? should it be? if so what is required to achieve an acceptable level of fraud prevention? a dedicated ( single purpose ) authentication device? A KeK built into a watch perhaps ?
¡Viva la Resistencia!

User avatar
Night Wing
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:21 pm
Location: Texas, USA

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by Night Wing » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:04 am

If I'm thinking about buying a product with IoT and it can't be turned off, then I won't buy that product. In my opinion, anything digital can be hacked and IoT is a hackers dream.
Mint 18.3 (Sylvia) Xfce

User avatar
Lucap
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by Lucap » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:07 am

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/0 ... or_claims/

Apparently It's not a IOT backdoor it's a feature. :D

DAMIEN1307
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by DAMIEN1307 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:16 am

I for one refuse to have any device in my house that could be abused like this...so no alexa, nothing google slurping things up, no iot for door locks, thermostats refridgerators or anything of this ilk to make a "smart house"...ive had a "stupid house" all my life and it feels like home...i also have a "stupid phone" i refuse to have a "smart phone", i dont text, go on the web, etc...(i also do not use social media like FB, twitter instagram etc)....i just send and receive telephone calls only...its what i call putting the KISS on it all...Keep It Simple Stupid...when doing this, your problems will be few...why do people seem to like complicating their lives with all of this tech...i find computers, a simple cell phone, and my Roku box for tv with my amazon prime to be all the complications i really need, why beg for more issues then already exist just with computers alone, most of us use linux precisely because we had had enough of constant tech woe issues already? as for me? less complications means happier, less grumpy old man...lol...DAMIEN

User avatar
Moem
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5628
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by Moem » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:25 am

All my hacker friends avoid the IoT like the plague... they know how vulnerable it is. If they do any home automation, they roll their own and generally do not connect it to the internet.
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

DAMIEN1307
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:13 pm

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by DAMIEN1307 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:38 am

ahhh now that was a good time in history...the plague..."bring out your dead, bring out your dead"...lol...yep im a hacker too and i lock down anything computerized and web/internet accessible...if it cant be reasonably locked down, it will not be given house room...it needs to be potty trained, and/or house trained, just like any other animal...lol...DAMIEN

User avatar
Portreve
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by Portreve » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:58 pm

As I understand the (at least casual) definition of IoT, I'm doing an accidentally perfect job of avoiding it. I'm not precisely trying to avoid it; I just don't have a need for any of it, or the extra money to afford it.

It is exceedingly rare that I find any form of automation truly suitable to my needs. I would not describe myself at all as an egotistical know-it-all über-geek, though I am considerably knowledgeable in a wide variety of disciplines. It's simply that most of what exists runs the gamut of not suiting my needs, affording me automation I simply don't need, or not going about things in a way I think it should.

Beyond that, I don't watch TV, I'm not a gamer, and I don't stream anything.

Security concerns are valid, though in addition to that, I have to pose the question: what benefit(s) would I derive from, and what use would I have for, IoT hardware / services?
DAMIEN1307 wrote:ahhh now that was a good time in history...the plague..."bring out your dead, bring out your dead"...lol...
Image
Everything is in hand. With this tapestry... and with patience, there is nothing one cannot achieve.

No hamsters were harmed in the authoring of this post.

User avatar
jimbobs
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:50 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by jimbobs » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:39 pm

Maybe it's my sense of independence, or dislike of being controlled, that makes me avoid any of these Internet connected devices. But truth be told, I haven't seen anything that's actually useful so far. Bulbs that can be controlled by a phone? Useless (for me). Smart thermostat? Useless! Smart fridge? Useless. Alexa? Useless. etc. I'm (always, I hope) open to ideas but when something does come along that seems useful, my ability to control it fully will be key.
Dell Inspiron 1525 Core 2 Duo T5850 4GB Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia Cinnamon 3.4.6

trapperjohn
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 814
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:10 pm
Contact:

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by trapperjohn » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:07 pm

Once upon a time, asbestos was "the next new thing." When I was a kid, we used play with the stuff.

Humm... what are we playing with today? The user agreements tell us straight up.

For example, I randomly saw this one.
Ref: https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer ... =201809740

My hat comes off to the author of that tome. At least I got a warning this time.
1.3 Alexa Interactions. You control Alexa with your voice. Alexa streams audio to the cloud when you interact with Alexa. Amazon processes and retains your Alexa Interactions, such as your voice inputs, music playlists, and your Alexa to-do and shopping lists, in the cloud...

User avatar
Moem
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5628
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by Moem » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:12 pm

Well, here's an example of useful automation: my partner is working on automating the windows, which will open and close based on outdoor temperature, indoor temperature, wind speed and whether or not we are at home.
So far, we regulate indoor temperature in summer by having the windows open when it's cool out, and closed when it's hot out; of course, if there is a storm they need to be closed and we also don't want them open when we're away. That's potentially a lot of window opening and closing, and it's easy to forget and let the hot afternoon air in. Automating that seems quite useful to me. And no, it won't be connected to the internet!
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

User avatar
jimallyn
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7889
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:34 pm
Location: Wenatchee, WA USA

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by jimallyn » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:15 pm

But I just can't live without being able to open and close my garage door from anywhere in the world.
Image

“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan

User avatar
Portreve
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1024
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:03 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by Portreve » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:10 pm

Moem wrote:Well, here's an example of useful automation: my partner is working on automating the windows, which will open and close based on outdoor temperature, indoor temperature, wind speed and whether or not we are at home.
So far, we regulate indoor temperature in summer by having the windows open when it's cool out, and closed when it's hot out; of course, if there is a storm they need to be closed and we also don't want them open when we're away. That's potentially a lot of window opening and closing, and it's easy to forget and let the hot afternoon air in. Automating that seems quite useful to me. And no, it won't be connected to the internet!
Obviously, I speak with the perspective of someone who lives in Florida (of all places!) but I can't imagine living without air conditioning during the summer. Opening the windows would be the very last thing you would want to do here because of the heat and humidity. If there were no longer air conditioning, I would utter some very well-chosen curse words, in particular the contraction of the ever-so-popular "Firetruck This!", and leave the state, never to return.
jimallyn wrote:But I just can't live without being able to open and close my garage door from anywhere in the world.
'Zactly! :lol:
Everything is in hand. With this tapestry... and with patience, there is nothing one cannot achieve.

No hamsters were harmed in the authoring of this post.

User avatar
Moem
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5628
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by Moem » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:28 pm

Portreve wrote:Obviously, I speak with the perspective of someone who lives in Florida (of all places!) but I can't imagine living without air conditioning during the summer.
You know that climate is a thing, right? And that it differs a lot, depending on where you are? 8)
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

User avatar
thx-1138
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:15 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by thx-1138 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:32 pm

Moem wrote:Well, here's an example of useful automation: my partner is working on automating the windows, which will open and close based on outdoor temperature, indoor temperature, wind speed and whether or not we are at home.
Moem, that reminded me of this...
Last edited by thx-1138 on Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Pjotr
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 10152
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:18 am
Location: The Netherlands (Holland)
Contact:

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by Pjotr » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:46 pm

The IoT will give future ransomware an entirely new scope.... Imagine your entire house, and much of what's in it, being ransomed. Including the car in your garage. :lol:

OK, it's funny, because it can be avoided on the scale of the individual. By being sensible and avoiding that horrible IoT crap wherever reasonably possible.

But imagine the chaos and havoc this'll create in society as a whole... It's a disaster waiting to happen. And the multitudes are walking into it with their eyes wide shut. :shock:
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
Twitter: twitter.com/easylinuxtips
All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.

User avatar
thx-1138
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:15 pm
Location: Athens, Greece

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by thx-1138 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:37 pm


User avatar
jimbobs
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:50 am
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by jimbobs » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:44 am

Moem wrote:Well, here's an example of useful automation: my partner is working on automating the windows, which will open and close based on outdoor temperature, indoor temperature, wind speed and whether or not we are at home.
So far, we regulate indoor temperature in summer by having the windows open when it's cool out, and closed when it's hot out; of course, if there is a storm they need to be closed and we also don't want them open when we're away. That's potentially a lot of window opening and closing, and it's easy to forget and let the hot afternoon air in. Automating that seems quite useful to me. And no, it won't be connected to the internet!
So nothing to do with IoT :)
Dell Inspiron 1525 Core 2 Duo T5850 4GB Linux Mint 18.3 Sylvia Cinnamon 3.4.6

User avatar
Lucap
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by Lucap » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:48 am

Portreve wrote:Florida
Isn't Florida regularly testing Autonomous vehicles and Driverless cars , have you seen any on your travels?

User avatar
Moem
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5628
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by Moem » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:15 am

jimbobs wrote:So nothing to do with IoT :)
Very true, but IoT and domotica (home automation) are mixed up in people's minds. :)
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

mike acker
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1403
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:29 pm
Location: Kalamazoo, MI

Re: Avoiding IoT

Post by mike acker » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:29 am

jimallyn wrote:But I just can't live without being able to open and close my garage door from anywhere in the world.
it's important to open the door. otherwise you'll have a crash when you start up your tractor and send it out to mow

:mrgreen:

seems i saw an add at CES for some pills you could swallow. these would send an alert to your smartphone if you're building up too much pressure
:oops:

some of these clowns have got to be doing acid
¡Viva la Resistencia!

Post Reply

Return to “Open chat”