Another assault against our privacy being proposed

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DAMIEN1307
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Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by DAMIEN1307 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:38 am

just another case of "here we go again"...lol...enjoy the article...DAMIEN

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/2 ... s_general/

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Pierre
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Pierre » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:54 am

In effect, it means the FBI can ask, say, a California court for a subpoena to obtain files from a San Francisco upstart's servers hosted in France, sidestepping French privacy laws and legal system
and
The draft law also allows foreign governments to ask for non-US-citizens' personal data stored in America, under new sharing agreements that would be worked out by the White House.
it's most likely to be mainly used by the usual Five Eyes Group . . .
:(
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Portreve » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:09 pm

That's it. When the Enterprise arrives, I want to beam up and head back with them, because there's clearly no intelligent life here.

Maybe drop me on Vulcan. I'll take my chances with the Vulcan dating scene, and look back at Sol and wave with just one finger.
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by russellz » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:48 am

They are welcome to look at all my data. They might find it a bit boring though!

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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by majpooper » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:11 pm

The only thing I ever put in the cloud is to store some pics that I couldn't care less who sees. Who in their right mind would put anything confidential or sensitive in cloud ? All that stuff goes in an encrypted container on my PC and backed up to an encrypted external HD.

Forget Big Brother, I am more concerned the computer crackers that are looking and using exploits that the NSA hasn't even found yet.
Worse, even when the exploits are found and a patches written to close them way way too many (read literally thousands) of the cloud servers never get updated so they remain vulnerable for months even years.

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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by jimallyn » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:28 pm

russellz wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:48 am
They are welcome to look at all my data.
“Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say. It’s a deeply anti social principle because rights are not just individual, they’re collective, and what may not have value to you today may have value to an entire population, an entire people, an entire way of life tomorrow. And if you don’t stand up for it, then who will?” - Edward Snowden

Actually, I am beginning to thing that everybody should encrypt everything. Even my grocery shopping list? Yes, even my grocery shopping list. Because plenty of people are doing good things these days that the government doesn't like, and maybe they can get their stuff done while the government is trying to decrypt my grocery list.
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Schultz » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:11 pm

jimallyn wrote:
Even my grocery shopping list? Yes, even my grocery shopping list. Because plenty of people are doing good things these days that the government doesn't like, and maybe they can get their stuff done while the government is trying to decrypt my grocery list.
If you have one of those big grocery store chain shopper's cards (I have a Kroger's) then they (the grocery store) are already keeping tabs on what you buy. But you don't get the discount prices without it, so I live with it. I just hope the government isn't hacking into Kroger's computers. They don't need to know what I'm buying and eating.

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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Marziano » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:35 pm

Portreve wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:09 pm
... because there's clearly no intelligent life here.
There is. Bacterial intelligence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbial_intelligence
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Portreve » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:37 pm

jimallyn wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:28 pm
russellz wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:48 am
They are welcome to look at all my data.
“Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say. It’s a deeply anti social principle because rights are not just individual, they’re collective, and what may not have value to you today may have value to an entire population, an entire people, an entire way of life tomorrow. And if you don’t stand up for it, then who will?” - Edward Snowden

Actually, I am beginning to thing that everybody should encrypt everything. Even my grocery shopping list? Yes, even my grocery shopping list. Because plenty of people are doing good things these days that the government doesn't like, and maybe they can get their stuff done while the government is trying to decrypt my grocery list.
I could not possibly agree more with the first point you made in response to russellz.

I also agree with your second point, though I have a different direction of thought about it. Learning about you through, for example, seeing your shopping list, allows for additional vectors of identity theft or attack.
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Portreve » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:39 pm

Marziano wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:35 pm
Portreve wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:09 pm
... because there's clearly no intelligent life here.
There is. Bacterial intelligence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbial_intelligence
Oooh! Sehr interessant, Marziano. Sehr interessant in der Tat! :shock:
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Marziano » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:50 pm

Portreve wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:39 pm
Marziano wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:35 pm
Portreve wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:09 pm
... because there's clearly no intelligent life here.
There is. Bacterial intelligence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbial_intelligence
Oooh! Sehr interessant, Marziano. Sehr interessant in der Tat! :shock:
Personally, I would have opted to be a...giraffe.
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Moem » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:51 pm

jimallyn wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:28 pm
Actually, I am beginning to thing that everybody should encrypt everything. Even my grocery shopping list? Yes, even my grocery shopping list. Because plenty of people are doing good things these days that the government doesn't like, and maybe they can get their stuff done while the government is trying to decrypt my grocery list.
I agree. Some people are more vulnerable than I am, and need anonymity more than I do; if I use encryption, and this attracts an extra level of surveillance (which is a thing that's said to happen) this may very well take away from the surveillance budget to spy on those people. After all, it's doable to spy on some people, but it's very expensive to spy on many people and it may be impossible to spy on all of the people.
If everybody uses encryption, the people who use it because they really need the anonymity won't stand out as much; they are part of a crowd. And it's way easier to hide in a crowd than it is on an empty square.

This is not purely theoretical to me. I have friends who really need anonymity. They are trying to do good in the world, and need to be safe while doing it.
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Pjotr » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:40 pm

Just saw a documentary about China on television tonight. The Chinese government is planning to roll out an extensive operation to literally spy on everybody in China, by 2020. With ubiquitous state of the art high-resolution face recognition and all. They're already testing it in Shenzhen.

In short, it entails a "social credit points" system, which for example can literally ruin your life if you, as pedestrian, use the pedestrian crossing when the light is red, for five times. The ensuing loss of social credit points will make it impossible for you to get a mortgage, go to university, etc. :shock:

Almost needless to say, that this mass surveillance also extends to the internet usage of each inidvidual: visiting "wrong" web pages can also cause loss of social credit points. It's a nightmare of historic proportions.
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by catweazel » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:49 am

majpooper wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:11 pm
Who in their right mind would put anything confidential or sensitive in cloud ?
That question is only applicable to free cloud services, and it certainly is not applicable to enterprise class cloud, including AWS, Go-ogle and Microsoft. If they offered insecure storage to the enterprise then they'd go out of business fairly quickly. However in the case of Microsoft they don't seem to have learned that lesson when providing other services. See this article.

The Microsoft terms of agreement gave them full control over users' data, so the potential customer backed right out.
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by all41 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:54 am

Microsoft, Apple, Google--it's not about operating systems anymore, or even computers--it's about a power struggle for global dominance and control.

This is definitely true because I saw it on the internet--while wearing my tinfoil hat.
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by russellz » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:08 am

jimallyn wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:28 pm
russellz wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:48 am
They are welcome to look at all my data.
“Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say. It’s a deeply anti social principle because rights are not just individual, they’re collective, and what may not have value to you today may have value to an entire population, an entire people, an entire way of life tomorrow. And if you don’t stand up for it, then who will?” - Edward Snowden

Actually, I am beginning to thing that everybody should encrypt everything. Even my grocery shopping list? Yes, even my grocery shopping list. Because plenty of people are doing good things these days that the government doesn't like, and maybe they can get their stuff done while the government is trying to decrypt my grocery list.
I think we are drifting a bit away from the original post.

I said that "they" are welcome to see all my data. The original post was referring to the government security services. In this day and age we need to give the security services all the help we can to keep us safe. It is in no way related to free speech. If criminals and terrorists have something to hide then the security services must have access to that. Honest people need hide nothing from them.

I am still quite happy for them to see my data. What I do object to is the political and commercial use of my data by Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc., but that is an entirely different matter.

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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by catweazel » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:16 am

russellz wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:08 am
The original post was referring to the government security services. In this day and age we need to give the security services all the help we can to keep us safe.
lol - that's exactly what governments want you to think.
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Pjotr » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:34 am

russellz wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:08 am
I said that "they" are welcome to see all my data. The original post was referring to the government security services. In this day and age we need to give the security services all the help we can to keep us safe.
That's unfortunately a misconception.... After almost every terrorist attacks of the last couple of years, including those in France, we heard in the news that the terrorists were already "on the radar" of the security services beforehand. Yet those services didn't stop them. :shock:

It's *not* good, nor even effective, for the government to treat the entire population as potential terrorists. Mass spying *is* a danger to our liberty: what was safe for the French and Dutch governments to know about their population in 1939 (e.g. religious persuasion), no longer was so in 1941.

Targeted selective spying, even if that would be politically incorrect: yes. Indiscriminate mass spying on literally everybody: NO.
Last edited by Pjotr on Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by andyO » Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:39 am

russellz wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:08 am
I said that "they" are welcome to see all my data. The original post was referring to the government security services. In this day and age we need to give the security services all the help we can to keep us safe. It is in no way related to free speech. If criminals and terrorists have something to hide then the security services must have access to that. Honest people need hide nothing from them.
I am naturally suspicious of government security services wanting free access to all my data and I think everyone should. Giving the government access to all our data is just another step towards a totalitarian state. Okay, you and I don't think we have anything to hide at the moment, but who decides what is worth hiding? In this case the government and governments can change. It is wise to always have an eye on the future. What happens when, for example, some right wing zealots get elected and decide that being interested in reading about free and open source software is against the countries interests... (or insert anything else which seems benign right now)

As an aside, I also believe that stopping the security services being allowed mass surveillance of the entire population is in their interests. Any automated surveillance would depend on computer algorithms, which will return false positives. As the population under surveillance increases the number of false positives will increase. All the positives returned from the surveillance algorithms will have to be investigated by real people. If the whole population is under surveillance, there is the real possibility that the "real baddies" will be lost in the noise of all the other false positives and never investigated because the investigators are too busy wading though the mountain of people returned as needing investigation.

Although on the face of it, mass surveillance sounds great for a government, I believe that intelligence led/targeted (cough) surveillance remains the most effective method.

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Re: Another assault against our privacy being proposed

Post by Prsman » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:29 pm


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