Censorship on the forum

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MintBean
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by MintBean » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:40 pm

Most people accept when a thread's been closed for good reason. Others princess and whine about it.

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Sir Charles
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Sir Charles » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:54 pm

Well, if anyone has anythig to say to me directly , please step forward from behind your cute avartars. Don't be shy :P
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by AZgl1500 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:12 pm

Flemur wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:11 am
I don't see any missing posts. :D
Hmmmm,

I have had "missing posts"


then I realized that I had clicked on "Preview" and thought it was posted, then I deleted that 'Tab' to go to the next new thread..... then email shows a new post in "that previewed" thread and I am sitting wondering where "my post went" because I had already given a solution, but it is missing....

hmmmm, ..... yup, my post is 'missing' :mrgreen:

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by uberdorf » Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:56 pm

I will agree that there is not only censorship, but that it is necessary to have censorship in a privately owned forum that is meant to help others in linux. Otherwise the trolls will take over; or do we want some government to be our forum overlord? I don't believe flaming each other over sensitive topics is very conducive to a helpful environment lol.

Another point, I noticed many active mods here seem European or leftist by US standards so of course there will be a bias in the what is allowed and not allowed. Is there really a point in fighting for balance from people who see "balance" completely differently? Especially when it is a help forum and not a place for arguing.

Anyways, my examples are from when I was still active here some years ago, and I don't expect things have changed. For a while there was blatant anti-American sentiment being expressed. I can't remember all the topics, but some included privacy and finances. When countered, as I remember the threads got locked or deleted for being political. There was one member who I remember saying her nation was better than the US, but denied being a "nationalist" even though that behavior is nationalistic. I took a break for a while, then when I returned she had been made a mod. I was not impressed, but I remembered that the founder is European and many of the mods seem either European or leftist by US standards. They can do what they want with their forum. I was hoping not to inflame things by naming names, but I guess in this one example it is going to be obvious to regulars here.

EDIT************ I only bring up my examples because some people asked for examples, and not to rehash whose government is better. :)

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Arch_Enemy » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:55 pm

Marziano wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:54 pm
Well, if anyone has anythig to say to me directly , please step forward from behind your cute avartars. Don't be shy :P
OK!

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;)
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When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Pierre » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:58 pm

Did you know that there is Only One Moderator in the Global South :?:
- there is life at the end of a 12,000 Km pipe . . .
:(

Even though there is a Heavy < pro > USA bias in the Local Media,
- it's still quite surprising, on just how many "issues" that are not really 'understood' down here.
no knowledge of those appropriate social customs or expectations, is what one would assume.
:)
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Fred Barclay » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:24 pm

I promised myself I'd not post in these type threads... but here I am! Oops...

Censorship is absolutely needed here. We are (IMHO) the friendliest forum on the internet, in no small part due to the mods' untiring efforts to keep us that way. Freedom of speech isn't something we can demand, as we're really just guests here, and I've no wish to see this forum become like some other Linux forums. I'm not even using Mint anymore, and I refuse to use the forum of the distro I'm currently running just because of how awful it can be! :(

I also rather agree with uberdorf. I've seen posts that bash the USA (in particular) left untouched for a while, but posts that criticised other nations or risked being offensive to other nations/nationalities being removed almost immediately. Left-leaning posts and ideas also aren't squashed nearly as efficiently as those from the center or right side of the spectrum. Natually the mods can't be everywhere and can't remove everything - but I've seen this my entire time here so it does seem like a bit of bias. It's especially apparent over time as you get to know the folks here and their social or political leaning. The type of posts that are removed vs. those that they leave start to make sense.

Just to be clear, though - of course we all deserve and ought to have our own views! I've no problem with opinions being expressed here (as long as they're not flaming or hateful, or we don't turn into a policial forum). I am bothered when posts with a certain view are left alone, and ones with the opposite view are usually removed.

At the end of the day, I just want to enjoy using Linux and to help others. How about you? :smile:
Last edited by Fred Barclay on Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by MintBean » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:28 pm

Fred Barclay wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:24 pm
I am bothered when posts with a certain view are left alone, and ones with the opposite view are usually removed.
Can't say I've noticed this but I haven't been around nearly as long as you. [OFF-TOPIC]What distro are you using now?

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Fred Barclay » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:29 pm

MintBean wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:28 pm
[OFF-TOPIC]What distro are you using now?
Sending a PM your way. ;)
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Sir Charles » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:43 am

Arch_Enemy wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:55 pm
Even though not advisable in many cases, in yours might help:

Code: Select all

sudo apt dist-upgrade
Though I would hold back themonty-python package.
8)
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Pjotr » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:37 am

Fred Barclay wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:24 pm
I also rather agree with uberdorf. I've seen posts that bash the USA (in particular) left untouched for a while, but posts that criticised other nations or risked being offensive to other nations/nationalities being removed almost immediately. Left-leaning posts and ideas also aren't squashed nearly as efficiently as those from the center or right side of the spectrum. Natually the mods can't be everywhere and can't remove everything - but I've seen this my entire time here so it does seem like a bit of bias. It's especially apparent over time as you get to know the folks here and their social or political leaning. The type of posts that are removed vs. those that they leave start to make sense.
If that's true, then that's very serious indeed. The last thing we need is a leftist reality distortion field imposed on this forum (nor a rightist one of course, but that doesn't appear to be the case here). Please no America bashing, president Trump bashing (Hillary lost: for God's sake, live with it), or horrible political correctness here.
Fred Barclay wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:24 pm
Just to be clear, though - of course we all deserve and ought to have our own views! I've no problem with opinions being expressed here (as long as they're not flaming or hateful, or we don't turn into a policial forum). I am bothered when posts with a certain view are left alone, and ones with the opposite view are usually removed.
I fully agree.
Fred Barclay wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:24 pm
At the end of the day, I just want to enjoy using Linux and to help others. How about you? :smile:
I'm with you. There are still enough opportunities elsewhere for free political discussions (as long as the current worldwide internet censorship surge doesn't prevail in too many countries).

Like this forum, Linux should be apolitical. It's just a piece of software, not a world view. An operating system that's fun to use, just like it's fun to help others to use it. :)
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Moem » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:56 am

Pjotr wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:37 am
Please no America bashing, president Trump bashing (Hillary lost: for God's sake, live with it), or horrible political correctness here.
Political statements are explicitly against forum rules. For that reason, I would normally remove your comment about the outcome of the US elections. This time I'm letting it stand as an example of statements that we normally remove, no matter which political direction they favour. I have removed statements that praised and bashed candidates on either side of the American political spectrum. I know other mods have done the same.

I'm not sure what you mean by political correctness, but if it equals doing our best to be inclusive, then you're going to have to live with it. This forum is meant for all Linux Mint users, no matter what their race, gender, age, sexual orientation, religion, abilities and what have you. We will not tolerate language that makes people feel unwelcome here because of any of these properties. But surely that's just normal, and not horrible in any way... so you can't possibly mean that. Right?

Political correctness is such a loaded term. Everyone who hears it thinks of something different. It might be best to avoid it and just say what you mean.
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by coffee412 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:41 am

Its so nice to be able to come to this forum and not be inundated with political talk or personal bashing. I have to also echo others that have said that some other linux forums are not as friendly at all.

I think the thing to remember is that when you come to the forums here you are a guest at someones house (Mints) and you should act accordingly. Just because you have an account here does not give you full rights to do as you wish. Obey the rules and respect everyone else and your problems will be few.

One other important thing is that emotions cannot be expressed in posts very well. Be careful not to take some things the wrong way. I find that the more technical I get the harder it is to socially express myself on subjects. Its very possible that what I post might be taken wrongly. I think others here might feel the same on this.
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Arch_Enemy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:55 am

Fred Barclay wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:24 pm

I also rather agree with uberdorf. I've seen posts that bash the USA (in particular) left untouched for a while, but posts that criticised other nations or risked being offensive to other nations/nationalities being removed almost immediately.
Eh, we're used to it...
Left-leaning posts and ideas also aren't squashed nearly as efficiently as those from the center or right side of the spectrum.
Eh, we're used to it. We don't need colouring books or therapy dogs when someone calls us a name.
At the end of the day, I just want to enjoy using Linux and to help others. How about you? :smile:
Yup.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Arch_Enemy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:57 am

Marziano wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:43 am
Arch_Enemy wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:55 pm
Even though not advisable in many cases, in yours might help:

Code: Select all

sudo apt dist-upgrade
Though I would hold back themonty-python package.
8)
Not necessary! All I'd have to do would be to go back to Arch. That would fix my wagon! :wink:
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Sir Charles » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:03 am

Arch_Enemy wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:57 am
Marziano wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:43 am
Arch_Enemy wrote:
Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:55 pm
Even though not advisable in many cases, in yours might help:

Code: Select all

sudo apt dist-upgrade
Though I would hold back themonty-python package.
8)
Not necessary! All I'd have to do would be to go back to Arch. That would fix my wagon! :wink:
That's themonty-python package in work, :lol:
I suppose that's one of the ironies of life, doing the wrong thing at the right moment -C.C.

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Arch_Enemy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:12 am

Moem wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:56 am
Pjotr wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:37 am
Please no America bashing, president Trump bashing (Hillary lost: for God's sake, live with it), or horrible political correctness here.
Political statements are explicitly against forum rules. For that reason, I would normally remove your comment about the outcome of the US elections. This time I'm letting it stand as an example of statements that we normally remove, no matter which political direction they favour. I have removed statements that praised and bashed candidates on either side of the American political spectrum. I know other mods have done the same.

I'm not sure what you mean by political correctness, but if it equals doing our best to be inclusive, then you're going to have to live with it. This forum is meant for all Linux Mint users, no matter what their race, gender, age, sexual orientation, religion, abilities and what have you. We will not tolerate language that makes people feel unwelcome here because of any of these properties. But surely that's just normal, and not horrible in any way... so you can't possibly mean that. Right?

Political correctness is such a loaded term. Everyone who hears it thinks of something different. It might be best to avoid it and just say what you mean.
"Political Correctness", at least in the US, is basically bowing to everyone and doing the "socially acceptable" thing, which, by definition, could be just about anything. As long as no one's feelings are hurt. However, it has gone to such extremes it is now a joke, and, indeed, US Liberals have stopped using the term because it has become so laughable (The "real" reason is that "Right Wing conspiracy theorists use it as an insult." Whatever).

For example: someone has suggested no longer using the term "black ice" to describe ice on the roadway that looks like wet pavement, because "those of African-American descent may be offended by the term."

The whole thing has just become a joke.
I have travelled 35629424162.9 miles in my lifetime

One thing I would suggest, create a partition a ~28G partition as /. Partition the rest as /Home.
When the system fails, reinstall and use the exact same username and all your 'stuff' comes back to you.

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Moem » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:21 am

Arch_Enemy wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:12 am
"Political Correctness", at least in the US, is
Thanks, but I wasn't asking for (another opinion on) the meaning of this term. I was instead proposing that we don't use it because everyone uses it differently. Maybe you missed that?

And please refrain from talking about the different political groups in the US, as this violates the forum rules. If people keep doing that, the thread will be closed and we still won't know what the OP was talking about.
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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by idle » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:47 am

Its poison, the whole damn lot of it. There are plenty of forums to suit your political, religious and social needs. This is Linux Mint, and I think we are lucky to have it. And I mean that in the sense that this forum is one of the friendliest forums you can find, and of coarse that has just as much to do with the moderation this forum has. Enough already! :(

So much I see in life, outside and inside of the internet, where a few spoil it for everyone else. No need for details either, if your honest with yourself you know exactly what I mean. I DON'T want to see that happen here. Though I don't post a lot, but I come to these forums everyday. I wouldn't say I have friends here as I'm pretty new and I don't post often, but already I see a poison spreading. I don't care which way you try to slice it, it causes division, plain and simple.

Just the title of this thread makes me shake my head, Censorship, you've got to be kidding me. I applaud the moderators for shutting down anything that causes division. Especially topics that place people in camps, for or against. Its just not the place for it. And what do the moderators get for doing so? Censorship! unbelievable. See what I mean? Not nice, not nice at all.

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Re: Censorship on the forum

Post by Pjotr » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:54 am

Moem wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:56 am
doing our best to be inclusive
The term "inclusiveness" has been uttered so often by nasty people (not you, Moem) who use verbal and sometimes even physical aggression against their opponents, that for me that term has been badly contaminated....

I'd suggest a different wording, something like "This is a friendly and relaxed mutual tech support forum for the Linux Mint operating system. We like it to stay friendly and relaxed, so all politics (be it leftist or rightist) have to stay out." :wink:
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