e-waste

[jimbobs]

Perspective: US Customs is the enforcement arm of Big Business. Taxpayer paid private cops.
Woke

That's it in a nutshell. The English legal system - from which all English speaking countries derive their systems - is not for the protection and betterment of individuals. It's all there to suit corporate interests.

[BenTrabetere]

@ michael louwe
The cases you cite concern software piracy. I think the Software Alliance and companies like MS have engaged in anti-piracy activity that is difficult to defend or justify, and borders on extortion.

The Lundgren case was not about piracy ... it was about copyright. The copyright infringement was about the label, not the software. Lundgren himself admitted he could have avoided everything if he had labelled the disc differently.

@sdibaja

Perspective: US Customs is the enforcement arm of Big Business. Taxpayer paid private cops.

US Customs is also a consumer protection agency. When it takes action against counterfeit products it is protecting the legitimate owners/manufacturers of that product and it is protecting the consumers who might be tricked into purchasing those items.

Example:
US Customs seized nearly $1.5B in counterfeit cosmetics in 2017. I am aware of one case concerning a premium brand (MAC) of lipstick - the seized knock-off contained more than 15x the amount of lead as the genuine item. Both consumers and MAC benefited from having the illegal product removed.

[jimbobs]

...
The Lundgren case was not about piracy ... it was about copyright. The copyright infringement was about the label, not the software. Lundgren himself admitted he could have avoided everything if he had labelled the disc differently.
...

And this proves that "the law is a ass".

[michael louwe]

@ BenTrabetere, .......

The Lundgren case was not about piracy ... it was about copyright. The copyright infringement was about the label, not the software. Lundgren himself admitted he could have avoided everything if he had labelled the disc differently..

.

While Lundgren argued that these disks had zero value, Microsoft claimed (through a letter and an expert witness) that these were "counterfeit operating systems" and that they had the potential to hurt Microsoft's sales. The pricing was set at $25 a piece, which was what Microsoft claimed it charged repair shops for these disks. The catch here is that this is the price for a fully licensed operating system, not Lundgren's version.

https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/25/eri ... microsoft/
.
Eric Lundgren pleaded guilty to breaking Trademark laws by copying Dell's logo and he was first sentenced to 15 months jail. Lundgren appealed against the 15 months jail sentence as harsh/excessive which M$ opposed by claiming Windows piracy and US$700,000 in financial loss. Hence, the 15 months jail sentence stood.

[DAMIEN1307]

hi jimbobs...i think you have made an excellent point when you said ..." The English legal system" - "from which all English speaking countries derive their systems" - "is not for the protection and betterment of individuals". "It's all there to suit corporate interests."...when one studies english common law and statute laws starting with Magna Carta signed under duress by King John (the duress being applied by the rich english Barons of that time trying to protect their own property and commercial interests) on the marshy plains of Runnymead...going further into the reign of Charles I who thought he was above the law when it came down to his will, the absolute divine right of monarchs versus the commercial and financial interests of his time, who i might add lost his crown and his head over the entire affair at the hands of Parliament and Cromwell, all under "colour of law"...and then progress to why the American Revolution happened at all...(think East India Company, a very powerful commercial interest of the day in England specialilising in the tea trade, also think Boston Tea Party)...and the list goes on...when you read the Annotated Laws of The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, also derived not only from English Common Law, but also from the Mayflower Compact, which all culminated
both during after the American Revolution to, first, The Continental Congress and then by necessary consequence to become some of the basis of The Constitution of The United States of America, you will see that most of these laws concern the wealthy landed interests as well as corporate interests, and all had very little to do with the "common persons interests or welfare thereof"...if anyone thinks that the laws we all now have were ever written by the everday common man/women and not by hi-powered rich and influential powers that be are under a misapprehension and are under a delusion or perhaps an illusion at best ...very nice point made...DAMIEN

[GS3]

It is sort of shocking that Linux still seems like a well kept secret after all this time. 99% of laptop/desktop users could not only get along fine running Linux Mint in place of Windows, many would not even notice the difference. The Browser has become the primary tool for computing, so installing Linux and their favorite browser would satisfy their needs while giving them more security and privacy.

I disagree. People who have very light browsing needs are using their phones, not their computers.

I am trying very hard to find a replacement for my old Win XP which I am still using but I know it is a matter of time before I have to ditch it. I bought a nice desktop solely for installing Linux Mint and have had it for over a year now. My wife opens the browser and says, like you, it is much like Windows. But she is not the one who installed it or maintains it, I am. And, after many hours and many problems I can tell you it is nothing like Windows and cannot aspire to be a replacement for it. You can find numerous threads started by me asking about problems I have encountered with Mint. Some I have managed to resolve after many hours of work, many others are unresolved. Most of these problems do not exist in Windows.

Linux Mint has stability and reliability issues. Windows has much wider software offer and supports much more hardware. It is much more user friendly by a very wide margin.

I still refuse to move up from Win XP and I am trying hard to transition to Linux but let us not fool ourselves into thinking it is as versatile and as easy as Windows because it is not. If my wife had to install and maintain and troubleshoot the Linux Mint installation she would have given up the first day.

[Pierre]

the thing is, that GS3 does raise some valid points,
and is quite right, in that people who have very light browsing needs are using their phones, not their computers.

sure - there are many issues in installing & maintaining any Linux System,
and I've been there & had those issues, as well.

BUT- - and it's a Big BUT - - as someone who has just spent the best part of Three Days
in Manually Updating Windows-10 to v1803 - - man, that was a Right Royal PiTA
on Four Laptops & just One Desktop - - every one of them,, did that Update Twice
as there always seemed to be some issues on the First Time Around - - Which Then Failed @ 99%

they say that "Linux is Not Windows" & that's quite true,, but Linux is no saint, either.

something went wrong & I've misplaced my Win-7 installation disk,
and so I've obtained another disk via eBay, but unlike the issue with Eric Lundgren,
this eBay seller placed no propitiatory logos on his disk, but rather just his own eBay logo
- it works well & I'm with the replacement disk.

[Portreve]

[thread tl;dr]

Ultimately, laws are laws, and this is why it's better to make use of resources which are inherently oriented towards promoting the public good and welfare.

[michael louwe]

@ GS3, .......

.

.
For those (70% of users.?) who just read news, surf the web, email and stream web-videos/music with their computers, Linux Mint should be good enough for them.
....... Unless they are tech-geeks, other advanced users will need the hand-holding of Windows or MacOS, eg running non-mainstream computers(eg 2-in-1 touchscreen tablets, Intel Compute sticks, etc), Bluetooth devices, video-conferencers, use of Chinese character input, networking with Windows machines, gamers, businesses, etc.

[michael louwe]

@ Pierre, .......

.

.
You could have created your own free Win 7 Recovery/Reinstall DVD/USB by going to ... https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/ or other websites.

If you or others in your situation could not get hold of a Win 7 Reinstall disk from any source, you would likely have to buy new computers or new Windows licenses from M$. This was why M$ went after Eric Lundgren and pushed for the 15 months jail sentence by "lying" against him in court.

[Pierre]

Yeah michael - - I'm aware of getting an ISO & burning:
- do that all the Time w/ my Linux ISOs

but, I've just was having an Bad Slack Attack

and to get the Full win-7 set is an ISO that's over 8Gb in size,,
and2 wasn't too inclined to blow my MBB Monthly Allowance on those sized ISOs.

[GS3]

If you or others in your situation could not get hold of a Win 7 Reinstall disk from any source, you would likely have to buy new computers or new Windows licenses from M$. This was why M$ went after Eric Lundgren and pushed for the 15 months jail sentence by "lying" against him in court.

I think you are mixing two things, one is the license key and another is the software installation media. If you have the license you should not have any problem reinstalling and using the OS.

With the intention of using it for Linux I bought a desktop which did not even have a HDD but it had the license sticker. I put a HDD in it, I bought a Windows installation disk on eBay and I installed and activated Windows without any problems. All very easy and perfectly legal.

It is the license key that gives you the right to install and use the OS. The installation media is irrelevant. You can get the OS installation disk for very little or nothing. Maybe even directly from MS.

And if you do not have the license ... well, you do not have the license.

[Pierre]

which is why M$ used it's new win-10 to "gobble up" as many win-7 product-keys as possible.
- lots of M$ Windows users, don't realize this, and when they,
or ME if they ask me to re-install their Old Win-7 System & re-use that product-key that's on some sticker on their machine,
will find that around about the 90 day mark, that their newly re-installed win-7 will Fail it's Authentication Check.


you can get around this issue, by using a System Restore Disk as supplied by your PCs manufacturer,
as any re-installation will *not* require that product-key or that sticker.
- sometimes this Restore is an Software Process that can be initiated by pressing an Key at Boot-Time.
and I've done this method of "restore" myself, many times.

OR you can use a purpose supplied Manufacturers Restore Disk, if that was supplied at the Time of your PCs purchase,
OR2 by using the same type of Restore Disk that Eric Lundgren was supplying.

[GS3]

I have never had that problem or heard of anybody who had it. In the last few months I have done several installations of Win XP and Win 7 and never had that problem. I am quite sure that if you have a valid license key MS will validate and if there is any problem doing it online it can be done by phone. I have never had a problem.

Again, I bought an HP-Compaq (see my signature) with no OS or even HDD. My intention was to use it for Linux so I did not care about that but when I received it I saw it had a sticker so I plugged in a HDD and installed Win7 without any problem authenticating.

Just a few months ago I installed and updated and patched two Win XP SP3 installations.

If you have a valid license you should not have any problem.

If you upgraded to Win 10 then I do not know what happens because I have never done it but you still have a valid license and key although it may be for Win 10 now. My guess is that it would still be good to reinstall Win7 on the same machine but I have not done this.

In any case, what gives you the right to install and use the software is the key and license. Only MS can give you that and anyone else doing it without proper authorization is doing it illegally no matter how noble their intentions. But, again, you can get installation media without key or license on eBay. I did.

[BG405]

I've had the issue of the licence key being rejected after a period of not using the computer. Reinstalling & configuring Windows 7 (on the same hardware) seemed to go OK, then after putting it to one side for a few months had the "Not Genuine" message occur.

I just erased it and put Mint on it.

[Pierre]

that'll be around the 90 day mark,, redo the win-7 & the clock starts again.

M$ does seem to be able to bang your used-product-key more effectively, these days.
& it surely does make some folks real grumpy, when M$ keeps saying that their machine is "not-genuine".

these folks have the attitude, that it's their machine, since they bought it at some store,
and don't like M$ telling them what they can / can't do with it.

most of these folks, don't seem to realize that that "don't own" that machine - even though they did actually 'buy' it.
- - they just have a License - - to use that machine - - minor technical point - - don't care - - it's My Machine.

[BG405]

these folks have the attitude, that it's their machine

Actually it is, unless on a rental or hire-purchase type contract. It's the operating system which isn't yours.

In my case, a machine bought with a Win 7 Starter licence key and subsequently upgraded to Win 7 Ultimate, not cheap .. amd, also, AFAIK, not in violation of MS licence terms.

[Pierre]

yeah - - that's my point - - they only own the hardware ( my assumption )
& M$ owns the Operating System & some-one-else owns what-ever that they have also installed.
- most folks just don't realize this bit.
ie: it's their machine & they can darn well do what they like with their machine.

[GS3]

I've had the issue of the licence key being rejected after a period of not using the computer. Reinstalling & configuring Windows 7 (on the same hardware) seemed to go OK, then after putting it to one side for a few months had the "Not Genuine" message occur.

I just erased it and put Mint on it.

Using it or not using it has nothing to do with it. When you install you get a grace period to activate, use or no use. If your key is legit you should be able to activate online. If you have problems activating online you can activate by phone. I have never, ever, had a legitimate key rejected. Never.

Now, if you do not have a legitimate key then don't blame MS.

Look, I like to hate MS as much as anyone but let us hate them for the right reasons and not for made-up reasons.

[BG405]

- most folks just don't realize this bit.
ie: it's their machine & they can darn well do what they like with their machine.

I see what you meant now, thanks. Was a bit late (just saw I posted after 3AM).

Now, if you do not have a legitimate key then don't blame MS.

Look, I like to hate MS as much as anyone but let us hate them for the right reasons and not for made-up reasons.

The Licence Key is valid; purchased via Anytime Upgrade. I activated it as soon as the installation was complete (before doing any updates) & it worked fine for the few times I used it (over a few days) and it updated & ran with the usual issues (slowness) but successfully.

After setting up, the machine was put to one side for a while as I'd just started out with Mint. Next time I decided to test something, I saw the notification.

BTW; I don't hate MS as such, I just don't like their later iterations of Windows (after 7) and the EULAs & can not afford the licences even if I wanted them..