Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

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michael louwe
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Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by michael louwe » Fri May 11, 2018 2:55 am

https://news.softpedia.com/news/lubuntu ... 1079.shtml

M$'s latest Windows 10 Version 1803 still supports 32bit. This proves that non-free OS has more financial resources than free OS.
....... Running 32bit OS on 64bit-capable budget computers is suitable for non-advanced users who do not need maximum 64-bit computer resources or high performance. Cf; Gamers need to run 64bit OS. So, there is still a need for 32bit OS by some users.

Linux should have moved to a for-profit business model similar to Google's Chrome OS and Android, in order to be able to not stop support for 32bit OS.

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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by catweazel » Fri May 11, 2018 3:01 am

michael louwe wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 2:55 am
This proves that non-free OS has more financial resources than free OS.
Nonsense.
The decision for the rest of the official Ubuntu flavors to drop the i386 (32-bit) port is an effort of the Ubuntu community and it's based on some recent statistics...
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by michael louwe » Fri May 11, 2018 3:09 am

@ catweazel, .......
catweazel wrote:The decision for the rest of the official Ubuntu flavors to drop the i386 (32-bit) port is an effort of the Ubuntu community and it's based on some recent statistics....
Misleading quote.
.
"With Ubuntu MATE, Ubuntu Budgie, and Ubuntu Studio joining Ubuntu Desktop and Server in not offering i386 support in order to focus their efforts, and these statistics in mind, we (flavors) should all join them," said Bryan Quigley. "Now is the ideal time to do so."

The decision for the rest of the official Ubuntu flavors to drop the i386 (32-bit) port is an effort of the Ubuntu community and it's based on some recent statistics collected by them. These show that most of the users using 32-bit versions of any Ubuntu flavor is running them on 64-bit (amd64) capable hardware.
IOW, Ubuntu developers are "forcing" their 32bit OS users onto 64bit OS because they want to conserve their resources or "to focus their (developing" efforts".
Last edited by michael louwe on Fri May 11, 2018 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by catweazel » Fri May 11, 2018 3:10 am

michael louwe wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:09 am
@ catweazel, .......
catweazel wrote:The decision for the rest of the official Ubuntu flavors to drop the i386 (32-bit) port is an effort of the Ubuntu community and it's based on some recent statistics....
Misleading quote.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ellipsis
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by michael louwe » Fri May 11, 2018 3:24 am

@ catweazel, .......
catweazel wrote:.
.
Your ellipsis infers misleading information and does not infer "Nonsense". That's also a misuse of an ellipsis in a misleading quote.
ellipsis (countable and uncountable, plural ellipses)

1. (typography) A mark consisting of three periods, historically with spaces in between, before, and after them “ . . . ”, nowadays a single character “…” Ellipses are used to indicate that words have been omitted in a text or that they are missing or illegible. quotations ▼
2. (grammar, rhetoric) The omission of a grammatically required word or phrase that can be inferred.
3. (film) The omission of scenes in a film that do not advance the plot. quotations ▼

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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by catweazel » Fri May 11, 2018 3:26 am

michael louwe wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 3:24 am
Your ellipsis infers misleading information and does not infer "Nonsense". That's also a misuse of an ellipsis in a misleading quote.
It must be time to put my tinfoil hat on.
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by xenopeek » Fri May 11, 2018 3:55 am

What are the odds of somebody using a say 15 year old computer today that, even if those flavors would have a 32 bit ISO, would meet current Ubuntu recommended system requirements of 2 GHz dual core processor or better and 2 GB system memory? There are a few very good distros specifically built for that class of hardware that will give a much better experience than trying to run Ubuntu or its derivatives on that. Like antiX or VectorLinux.

Time is moving on. Various hardware devices and programs are no longer supported on (x86) 32 bit. Like Nvidia dropped support last year and Google Chrome did years ago.
michael louwe wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 2:55 am
Linux should have moved to a for-profit business model similar to Google's Chrome OS and Android, in order to be able to not stop support for 32bit OS.
Linux is for profit. See https://www.linuxfoundation.org/2017-li ... ding-page/. Last year 8.2% of the Linux developers were doing this work on their own, with no financial contribution happening from any company. For 4.1% of the Linux developers it was unknown leaving a whopping 87.7% of the Linux developers being paid for their work. The companies contributing to Linux do so for profit.

As for Chrome OS and Android, are there any releases scheduled around October this year of Chrome OS or Android that will work on 15 year old devices? I think not. (I mean, try finding one that works on your 3 year old device...) The comparison doesn't hold as there will be GNU/Linux releases that will work on 15 year old computers.

Edit: and Ubuntu 18.04 flavors are supported till 2023 / 2021.
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by sphyrth » Fri May 11, 2018 5:29 am

1. Canonical says that they're dropping 32-bit support because they lack the staff, not financial resources. This "Having support for 32-bit means having more money" is a non-sequitur.
2. 32-bit Ubuntu can still be supported IF there are people willing enough to do so.
3. As xenopeek says, Linux devs are just moving on; going with the flow of technology.

It's like, you know, it's fun to use typewriters but we have computers now... or you can still support your local printing press even if people are going Kindle.
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by michael louwe » Fri May 11, 2018 6:22 am

@ xenopeek, .......
xenopeek wrote:What are the odds of somebody using a say 15 year old computer today that, even if those flavors would have a 32 bit ISO, would meet current Ubuntu recommended system requirements of 2 GHz dual core processor or better and 2 GB system memory?.
"With Ubuntu MATE, Ubuntu Budgie, and Ubuntu Studio joining Ubuntu Desktop and Server in not offering i386 support in order to focus their efforts, and these statistics in mind, we (flavors) should all join them," said Bryan Quigley. "Now is the ideal time to do so."

The decision for the rest of the official Ubuntu flavors to drop the i386 (32-bit) port is an effort of the Ubuntu community and it's based on some recent statistics collected by them. These show that most of the users using 32-bit versions of any Ubuntu flavor is running them on 64-bit (amd64) capable hardware.
IOW, some users with 2 or 3 year old 64bit-capable computers prefer to run 32bit Ubuntu OS, instead of 64bit Ubuntu.
.
xenopeek wrote:Like Nvidia dropped support last year and Google Chrome did years ago.
Nvidia graphics cards are mostly used by gamers, coin-miners, etc, who need high 64bit computer performance. IOW, very very few gamers used 32bit OS. So, it was reasonable for Nvidia to drop 32bit support.

Google Chrome only dropped support for 32bit Chrome for Linux in March 2016, but not for 32bit Chrome for Windows/MacOS. Likely, Google did this mainly because of the very insignificant marketshare of 32bit Linux.
.
@ sphyrth, .......
sphyrth wrote:.Canonical says that they're dropping 32-bit support because they lack the staff, not financial resources. This "Having support for 32-bit means having more money" is a non-sequitur.
Fyi, in a normal business, staffs have to be paid or financed, So lack of staff is equal to lack of financial resources.

Why does M$ still support 32bit for her latest Win 10 Version 1803, but not Ubuntu developers/owners.?
Last edited by michael louwe on Fri May 11, 2018 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by catweazel » Fri May 11, 2018 6:28 am

michael louwe wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:22 am
Fyi, in a normal business, staffs have to be paid or financed, So lack of staff is equal to lack of financial resources.
Balderdash, and logical fallacy of non causa pro causa.
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by Pjotr » Fri May 11, 2018 6:35 am

32-bit: the digital equivalent of the panda bear. Evolutionary in a dead alley, should have died out long ago, only kept alive by massive and costly artificial interference. :lol:
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by catweazel » Fri May 11, 2018 6:38 am

Pjotr wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:35 am
32-bit: the digital equivalent of OS/2. Evolutionary in a dead alley, should have died out long ago, only kept alive by massive and costly artificial interference. :lol:
Edited to keep it on topic :)
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by michael louwe » Fri May 11, 2018 6:42 am

@ Pjotr, .......
Pjotr wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:35 am
32-bit: the digital equivalent of the panda bear. Evolutionary in a dead alley, should have died out long ago, only kept alive by massive and costly artificial interference. :lol:
You wished the Panda bear died out long ago.?

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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by xenopeek » Fri May 11, 2018 6:47 am

michael louwe wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:22 am
The decision for the rest of the official Ubuntu flavors to drop the i386 (32-bit) port is an effort of the Ubuntu community and it's based on some recent statistics collected by them. These show that most of the users using 32-bit versions of any Ubuntu flavor is running them on 64-bit (amd64) capable hardware.
IOW, some users with 2 or 3 year old 64bit-capable computers prefer to run 32bit Ubuntu OS, instead of 64bit Ubuntu.
The statistics don't provide information to draw any such conclusion. It could just as well be those users just don't know the difference and went with what they had installed before.
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by michael louwe » Fri May 11, 2018 7:03 am

@ catweazel, .......
catweazel wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:38 am
Pjotr wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 6:35 am
32-bit: the digital equivalent of OS/2. Evolutionary in a dead alley, should have died out long ago, only kept alive by massive and costly artificial interference. :lol:
Edited to keep it on topic :)
32bit OS is not the digital equivalent of IBM OS/2.
....... IBM OS/2 was dethroned by Windows 3.0 during the 1990s.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2012 ... years_old/
(OS/2 a quarter century on: Why IBM lost out and how Microsoft won - 27 Nov 2012)

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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by sphyrth » Fri May 11, 2018 7:07 am

I wonder if I use these arguments:
"Microsoft ended support for Windows XP because they lacked the financial resources... or maybe the staff to do so."
"Microsoft will end support for Windows 8.1 and other previous iterations for windows because they lack the staff and/or financial resources."
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by catweazel » Fri May 11, 2018 7:07 am

michael louwe wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 7:03 am
32bit OS is not the digital equivalent of IBM OS/2.
....... IBM OS/2 was dethroned by Windows 3.0 during the 1990s.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2012 ... years_old/
(OS/2 a quarter century on: Why IBM lost out and how Microsoft won - 27 Nov 2012)
https://winworldpc.com/product/os-2-war ... 2-warp-452
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by michael louwe » Fri May 11, 2018 7:21 am

@ xenopeek, .......
xenopeek wrote:Linux is for profit.
But not very good at it.
.
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/04/can ... -investors (Canonical to Cut Jobs, Axe Unprofitable Projects)
Canonical is currently a private company and, based on accounts filed at Companies House, has a staff of almost 500. It made an operating loss of £3.3million last year.

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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by kc1di » Fri May 11, 2018 7:24 am

until last year I still had an old 32 bit workhorse that still ran ok on 32 bit linux. But it died and that ended my need for 32 bit systems.
Don't think it's worth the effort in time/ manpower to keep 32 bit going. There are other distros that still have 32 bit releases but they are becoming fewer and fewer by the year. Puppy comes to mind.
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Re: Ubuntu flavors to drop 32-bit (i386) support

Post by catweazel » Fri May 11, 2018 7:31 am

michael louwe wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 7:21 am
Canonical is currently a private company and, based on accounts filed at Companies House, has a staff of almost 500. It made an operating loss of £3.3million last year.
'in a normal business'.
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