Am I too unforgiving?

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mediclaser
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Am I too unforgiving?

Post by mediclaser » Fri May 11, 2018 12:49 pm

I'm still a Linux beginner but it doesn't matter much to me what desktop environment (DE) a distro is using (XCFE, MATE, Cinnamon, KDE, etc.) as long as it works and I'm not forcing another person to use it. 8)

But I've read how some people are so stuck with certain DEs and it sounds to me they are willing to give up stability by switching to another distro that gives them impression of continued support of their DE. Whether my observation is correct or not, it made me curious enough to spend time comparing DEs more closely and experimenting on the other distros (like I did when I was trying Linux for the first time).

One of the distros got me impressed, because it comes with the newer versions of the common software apps I use. Even the software tool for my home printer is already there. But a simple bug appeared as I was doing the testing. When the screen saver kicked in, it asked me for the password as I tried to get back in. This was during the Live CD session. Really??? :x

I know I could have tried searching for the password, but that is not the point. You let me start your Live CD without the password, but you won't let me back in without entering it when the screensaver kicks in? How can I trust an OS to do things right under the hood when it fails to implement simple logic like that?

Am I too unforgiving? Am I behaving like the creator of Linux? :oops:

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AZgl1500
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by AZgl1500 » Fri May 11, 2018 12:58 pm

You hit on one of the first things that pisses me of with any DE, Windows or Linux.

That is the very first thing that I turn OFF.

yes, there are a lot of folks who seem to think that unless everyone conforms to their idea of what is the "best DE" then they are illegitimate.

I don't care what you use, and I will try out that DE under Virtualbox to see what it is that has you so hot about that DE.

But, for me, the very first thing i want is Stability, and Ease of Use: Right out of the Box.

ummm, that pretty much describes Linux Mint Cinnamon... tee hee :mrgreen:

now, where were you? :lol: :lol:

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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by MrEen » Fri May 11, 2018 1:36 pm

Mint's Live CD username is mint and the password you just leave blank (there is no password.)

I haven't checked lately how readily that info is available to newbies, but it doesn't take too much to find it.

The screensaver password prompt would have to be redone to test for running live versus installed and I'm not sure if that's a Mint program. If it isn't Mints own program, there's nothing Mint developers can do, I believe.

mediclaser
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by mediclaser » Fri May 11, 2018 2:44 pm

MrEen wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 1:36 pm
Mint's Live CD username is mint and the password you just leave blank (there is no password.)

I haven't checked lately how readily that info is available to newbies, but it doesn't take too much to find it.

The screensaver password prompt would have to be redone to test for running live versus installed and I'm not sure if that's a Mint program. If it isn't Mints own program, there's nothing Mint developers can do, I believe.
The experience I mentioned above was not with a Mint distro. None of the Mint distros I tested asked for password after screensaver during a live CD session.

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jimallyn
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by jimallyn » Fri May 11, 2018 2:59 pm

mediclaser wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 2:44 pm
The experience I mentioned above was not with a Mint distro. None of the Mint distros I tested asked for password after screensaver during a live CD session.
Then you just didn't wait long enough. If you boot to the "live" installer session and don't do anything for long enough - don't recall how long that is - Mint will indeed ask for your password when you come back to it. As mentioned above, when it does that, the user name is mint, and just hit Enter for the password. I'm not sure why they did it that way, but several people have posted about it on the forums.
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mediclaser
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by mediclaser » Fri May 11, 2018 3:15 pm

jimallyn wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 2:59 pm
Then you just didn't wait long enough. If you boot to the "live" installer session and don't do anything for long enough - don't recall how long that is - Mint will indeed ask for your password when you come back to it. As mentioned above, when it does that, the user name is mint, and just hit Enter for the password. I'm not sure why they did it that way, but several people have posted about it on the forums.
That would be OK if simply hitting Enter gets rid of the password prompt. The other distro did not accept a blank password.

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GS3
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by GS3 » Fri May 11, 2018 4:21 pm

AZgl1500 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:58 pm
But, for me, the very first thing i want is Stability, and Ease of Use: Right out of the Box.
Yup, before anything else I want stability and reliability. Before any fancy stuff I want things to work right every time.
AZgl1500 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:58 pm
ummm, that pretty much describes Linux Mint Cinnamon... tee hee :mrgreen:
When I drag a file or folder from another window to the desktop, instead of being placed where I put it the desktop places it somewhere else and later I have to move it again to where I want it. The grid positioning does not work as it should. And sometimes icons will be positioned on top of each other. It seems to me Cinnamon still has a ways to go. And don't get me started with Nemo. You would think the desktop and file manager of an OS are so essential and basic they should work flawlessly.
HP Compaq Elite 8300 CMT - Linux Mint 18.2 Sonya - Kernel 4.4.0-116-generic X64 - Cinnamon 3.4.4 - Nemo

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michael louwe
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by michael louwe » Fri May 11, 2018 4:50 pm

@ mediclaser, .......
mediclaser wrote:.
.
For most computer novices/newbies, this is an irritating "bug", ie by default, the screen should not be locked after an inactive period of 10 to 15 minutes.

In my first introduction to LM, I was stumped by this "simple bug", ie I was locked out of my own computer after leaving it for awhile. I had to do a hard power-shutdown and restart. After some searching, I reset the Screensaver Lock settings to get rid of the "bug".

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vansloneker
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by vansloneker » Fri May 11, 2018 5:36 pm

I have reported this issue too, as a reply in a blog concerning an upcoming version of Linux Mint. You can't expect people to magically understand the username and password phrase when they are installing an operating system. "You can look it up" speaks of total arrogance and ignorance. There are many people out there for who installing an operating system is a huge task. It might be the only computer they have, and then panic, how do I get back in? It even has happened to me, to be locked out of an installation in progress and unable to find the logon. To say the least I was pissed.

I have to deal with those people, who are not illiterate but not binary gifted. Elsewhere I have pleaded for consideration with the humble people who have taken it upon them to install this other modern but very technical operating system (Linux) side by side with their familiar operating system (Windows). These people are our best friends and should be treated polite and with respect. Consider the moments you need the help of someone with the right skills about something you don't understand. You want to be treated polite and with respect yourself, do you?
Unless stated otherwise Mint 18.3-64 XFCE

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AZgl1500
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by AZgl1500 » Fri May 11, 2018 5:49 pm

GS3 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 4:21 pm
When I drag a file or folder from another window to the desktop, instead of being placed where I put it the desktop places it somewhere else and later I have to move it again to where I want it.

The grid positioning does not work as it should. And sometimes icons will be positioned on top of each other. It seems to me Cinnamon still has a ways to go. And don't get me started with Nemo. You would think the desktop and file manager of an OS are so essential and basic they should work flawlessly.
The 2nd thing I do, is to unlock the "Forced to Grid" lock, I want the icons to stay exactly where I put them.

but, in moving folder to folder, that does not happen, it goes to the left most side of the screen, either vertical, or horizontal depending on how you select the preferences.

I have learned to live with it, by keeping the screen uncluttered and open on the bottom left corner and the placement set to 'Vertical'.

If you stray to close to another icon, they stack up, I don't like that, but no fix as of yet.


https://i.imgur.com/LDbfmVY.png
Last edited by AZgl1500 on Fri May 11, 2018 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by MrEen » Fri May 11, 2018 5:51 pm

I certainly think the screensaver should be disabled by default. But more importantly, it should be auto-disabled when clicking on Install Linux Mint!

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Portreve
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by Portreve » Sat May 12, 2018 7:57 am

Hey mediclaser:
mediclaser wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:49 pm
I'm still a Linux beginner but it doesn't matter much to me what desktop environment (DE) a distro is using (XCFE, MATE, Cinnamon, KDE, etc.) as long as it works and I'm not forcing another person to use it. 8)

But I've read how some people are so stuck with certain DEs and it sounds to me they are willing to give up stability by switching to another distro that gives them impression of continued support of their DE. Whether my observation is correct or not, it made me curious enough to spend time comparing DEs more closely and experimenting on the other distros (like I did when I was trying Linux for the first time).
Enough other people here have already responded to you about the password situation, so I'm going to leave that alone. However, what I think you're referring to here is Mint's dropping of KDE in favor of focusing more on GTK+-based desktop environments, such as Cinnamon and MATE. That itself is, I think, a worthy discussion (if, arguably, oft-repeated here and elsewhere) so I will touch on it instead.

On the fairly long list of advantages to a libre software ecosystem, which is where GNU+Linux lives, is there's no single, forced, monolithic choice for a user interface. GNU+Linux has a history of many different desktop environments, and it should be noted neither Gnome nor KDE were by any means the first or earliest. That said, there have been crusades and holy wars (after a fashion) in the community over these two DEs. There was another one, just as vibrant and nasty, when the Gnome Project decided to change UI metaphors with Gnome 3, which is ultimately how we've come to have Mate, and then Cinnamon.

I sense a nacent rift in the LM community because of the decision to drop KDE, though that rift is probably a lot smaller than it might otherwise be since most of us seem to be pro-GTK+. However, while I'm not a fan of KDE myself, I have posed the question on this forum before about what if LM were to just do a from-ground-up rewrite of Cinnamon based entirely around Qt, which is the set of libraries and tools which KDE uses, on the basis that (at least it seems to me) the Gnome Project really wants to just advance their own software development and while they won't (and legally cannot) prevent others from using their published software libraries, essentially it looks to me like they're walling themselves off from everyone else.
Everything is in hand. With this tapestry... and with patience, there is nothing one cannot achieve.

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AZgl1500
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by AZgl1500 » Sat May 12, 2018 10:33 am

MrEen wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 5:51 pm
I certainly think the screensaver should be disabled by default. But more importantly, it should be auto-disabled when clicking on Install Linux Mint!
I totally agree with this, it is impossible to just "click and run" on a Linux install, it comes to a grinding halt if you don't keep the mouse in action.
And this seems to be in every distro that I have tried.


I keep having to remember in the LiveSession to disable the screensaver, and invariably I forget.

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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by mediclaser » Mon May 14, 2018 2:29 pm

Guess what? I did a few Live CD tests again just for the screensaver behaviors and I cannot reproduce the screensaver bug in any of the Mint versions I got, no matter how long I let it sit in screensaver state. Mint doesn't ask for a password when resuming from screensaver. Did you guys encounter the bug in Mint versions prior to 17.x?

Anyways, I would not have learned that such an annoying thing exists in the Linux world if not for Manjaro's live CD, which seems to switch immediately to screensaver the moment you look away from your computer. It then asks for the password to resume (it does not accept blank). The rest of the distros I have tested just wait for a reasonable time before switching the screensaver on. And none of them asks for the password in order to resume.

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NoahsArk
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by NoahsArk » Mon May 14, 2018 3:41 pm

GS3 wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 4:21 pm
When I drag a file or folder from another window to the desktop, instead of being placed where I put it the desktop places it somewhere else and later I have to move it again to where I want it. The grid positioning does not work as it should. And sometimes icons will be positioned on top of each other. It seems to me Cinnamon still has a ways to go. And don't get me started with Nemo. You would think the desktop and file manager of an OS are so essential and basic they should work flawlessly.
Logged in just to say Hear, Hear! to your comment. It is one of those niggly things that gets up my nose. If I drag a folder or url to the right it goes to the left, which if you have stacked windows on the left is very annoying. I can only assume the programmer of the Mint 18 series is left handed. :D

I’d like to see this fixed in 19.

Oh...would also love to see the ability to get rid of some of the screensaver photographs and insert my own snaps. There’s one shot that makes me feel sea sick.

Those niggles aside, I love mint and now I have VB running I am as happy as - insert own saying. Will never go back to Bill’s trash os.

:D
Linux - Il est interdit d' interdire

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michael louwe
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by michael louwe » Tue May 15, 2018 5:26 am

@ mediclaser, .......
mediclaser wrote:Guess what? I did a few Live CD tests again just for the screensaver behaviors and I cannot reproduce the screensaver bug in any of the Mint versions I got, no matter how long I let it sit in screensaver state..
.
viewtopic.php?t=256338
viewtopic.php?t=249814
viewtopic.php?t=105008

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Pierre
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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by Pierre » Tue May 15, 2018 9:07 am

in that what I've often found, is that if the System Installer takes Too Long in it's installation,,
then that Dang Screen_Saver kicks in & whilst it often is easy to get out off ( press any key )
- sometimes it will freeze the actual installation up, and force me to a Hard Re-Boot :(
and yes - - in some Linux systems - - the Live Password is not so obvious, either.
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Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] - when your problem is solved!
and DO LOOK at those Unanswered Topics - - you may be able to answer some!.

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Re: Am I too unforgiving?

Post by mediclaser » Tue May 15, 2018 1:56 pm

michael louwe wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 5:26 am
@ mediclaser, .......
mediclaser wrote:Guess what? I did a few Live CD tests again just for the screensaver behaviors and I cannot reproduce the screensaver bug in any of the Mint versions I got, no matter how long I let it sit in screensaver state..
.
viewtopic.php?t=256338
viewtopic.php?t=249814
viewtopic.php?t=105008
That explains why I cannot reproduce it. I was not trying to install the distros... I was simply testing the live sessions.

Thanks for the links!

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