EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Chat about just about anything else
rene
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by rene » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:01 pm

BG405 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:28 pm
Not good enough, especially coming from the EU.
The institution, that is, which you recently democratically decided to tell to go eff itself.

User avatar
AndyMH
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 714
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:23 pm
Location: Wiltshire

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by AndyMH » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:57 am

By a margin of 4%. 48% of us voted to stay.
Homebrew i5-8400+GTX1080 Cinnamon 19, Thinkpad T430 i7-3632 Cinnamon 19, Thinkpad T420 Cinnamon 18.3, Thinkpad T410 Cinnamon 17.3, Thinkpad T60 19.0 Mate

User avatar
smurphos
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2005
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:18 am
Location: Britisher...

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by smurphos » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:03 am

BG405 wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:28 pm
However, I don't think they'll listen to us as England isn't a selectable option; neither are Scotland, Wales, etc.. I had to select "Other" & type England in. Not good enough, especially coming from the EU.
Err - the United Kingdom is (at the moment) the member state and is listed.

User avatar
BG405
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1537
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:09 pm
Location: England

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by BG405 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:11 am

smurphos wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:03 am
Err - the United Kingdom is (at the moment) the member state and is listed.
Indeed, but they asked which country, not which country / state. Besides, these geographical differences are important as people in Scotland (& probably NI) will likely vote differently, which could lead to another survey .. should we have separate time zones? (I think so! Apparently the "late" sunrise in Winter is a significant problem in parts of Scotland).

My 2p worth .. :)
Dell Inspiron 1525 - LM17.3 CE 64-------------------Acer D255E 2GB - Manjaro KDE, LM17.3 KDE 32
Toshiba NB305 - Manjaro KDE------------------------K7S5A AMD 1.2GHz - LM17.3 Xfce 32 & WinXP-Pro
Acer Aspire E11 ES1-111M - LM18.2 KDE 64 ----Dell PII 350 64MB - Puppy 4.3 & Win98-SE

rene
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by rene » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:46 am

AndyMH wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:57 am
By a margin of 4%. 48% of us voted to stay.
Yes, well, such is the problem of (binary, "winner takes all") democracy. However, seeing as how not just the EU-referendum was, but your entire political system is (effectively) binary, unless you'd like the rest of Europe to ignore your decisions as a matter of course, what's us poor continentals to do?

In any case, noticing from the follow-ups that BG405 was referring to UK versus individual countries rather than him feeling slighted for not being asked at all. It's the latter interpretation that caused a bit of a raised brow and my reply...

User avatar
Moem
Level 17
Level 17
Posts: 7002
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:14 am
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by Moem » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:23 pm

Speaking as a moderator here:
Hello friends, can we stop the political part of this conversation? It's explicitly against forum rules. Thanks!
Image

If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

User avatar
JerryF
Level 10
Level 10
Posts: 3126
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 1:23 pm
Location: Rhode Island, USA

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by JerryF » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:46 pm

I live in the U.S. and almost all the states observe DST. I think only Arizona and Hawaii don't, along with some of our territories.

I personally wish we'd do away with it. It used to be every six months we would switch, but we've lengthened the amount that we stay in DST. We are now 8 months in DST, 4 months standard time.

Where I live, that means for this year, May 11 to November 4, it's progressively lighter in the evening, sometimes until 9:00 PM. What purpose does this serve? As someone who has lived in suburban cities all my life, DST isn't beneficial.

Now for the argument that rural areas could use more daylight in the evening for crops. On any given day there's a sunrise and sunset (let's call that daylight workable time). For the sake of argument, let's say it's 6:00 AM to 8:00 PM for a particular day. With DST in place, the times would be 7:00 AM to 9:00 PM. Ok, so what? You're just shifting the daylight workable time on the clock, but not getting anymore daylight.
IF your problem has been solved, please edit your original post and add [SOLVED] to the beginning of the Subject Line. It helps other members.

rene
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by rene » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:46 pm

JerryF wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:46 pm
For the sake of argument, let's say it's 6:00 AM to 8:00 PM for a particular day. With DST in place, the times would be 7:00 AM to 9:00 PM. Ok, so what? You're just shifting the daylight workable time on the clock, but not getting anymore daylight.
The idea is that human beings are rather inflexible; start their daily productivity cycle at, to stick with the example, 7:00 regardless of season anyway; add hence 1 hour of naturally illuminated potential productivity to said daily cycle during DST.

Wikipedia does a good job of enumerating arguments for and against DST making actual sense so I'll not repeat them here; essentially there's no convincing study that shows DST to have positive or negative net-effect on modern societies, with an exception for retail liking DST. Frankly this would to me seem to be all the reason anyone could need to do away with the disruptive biannual switching at the very least; nuisances that can be solved need to have reasons to not be. At that point one could still differ about DST year round or doing away with it entirely. Latter I say, but mileage may differ; not though on the switching nonsense.

User avatar
sdibaja
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Baja California, Mexico

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by sdibaja » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:09 pm

Rene I disagree with your first paragraph. You are thinking of people in urban enviromens (most of the world's population) with a lifetime of indoctrination... but the Natural Humans use their internal clock that is set by the sun.

KBD47
Level 7
Level 7
Posts: 1628
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:03 am

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by KBD47 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:10 pm

rene wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:46 pm

Wikipedia does a good job of enumerating arguments for and against DST making actual sense so I'll not repeat them here; essentially there's no convincing study that shows DST to have positive or negative net-effect on modern societies, with an exception for retail liking DST. Frankly this would to me seem to be all the reason anyone could need to do away with the disruptive biannual switching at the very least; nuisances that can be solved need to have reasons to not be. At that point one could still differ about DST year round or doing away with it entirely. Latter I say, but mileage may differ; not though on the switching nonsense.
Actually, more people die because of daylight savings time based on statistics:

https://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/ex ... y-fix.html

Others:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswith ... 245940a2da

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyle ... story.html

rene
Level 8
Level 8
Posts: 2225
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by rene » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:28 pm

sdibaja wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:09 pm
Rene I disagree with your first paragraph. You are thinking of people in urban enviromens (most of the world's population) with a lifetime of indoctrination... but the Natural Humans use their internal clock that is set by the sun.
That is not actually disagreeing with my first paragraph, which only mentions the reason for DST having been once conceived; I didn't say I agreed with it, nor that anyone should. Also see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_ ... #Rationale.

As to KBD's above links I'll admit I'm not even going to read them seeing as how I'm quite sure I could google up an equal number of counter-links, if not in the same field then another one weighing in on the net part of net-effect. To me, as said, little or no undisputed indication/evidence either way already means we should do away with the disruptive switching at the very least. And sure, I'd prefer getting rid of DST entirely as well, but to me that bit's secondary.

User avatar
lsemmens
Level 6
Level 6
Posts: 1112
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:07 pm
Location: Rural South Australia

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by lsemmens » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:18 am

Daylight saving, is predominately so the "workers" who work 9-5 (not literally) can spend some daylight hours out "in the garden with the kids" (again: not literally). Any other "reason" is just plain rubbish.
Kernel: 4.15.0-36-generic x86_64 bits: 64
Desktop: Cinnamon 3.8.9
Distro: Linux Mint 19 Tara

Laptop T4500 Dualcore 4Gb RAM
Server AMD Phenom 9650 - GEForce 9400GT 6Gb RAM
+ three other Linux Mint machines
Out of my mind - please leave a message

User avatar
sdibaja
Level 5
Level 5
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Baja California, Mexico

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by sdibaja » Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:53 am

cherry picking from Wikipedia:
"Daylight Slaving Time".
Historically, retailing, sports, and tourism interests have favored daylight saving, while agricultural and evening entertainment interests have opposed it.
===
How about some logic... What if everyone, world wide, synchronizes their time pieces (and calendars) on GMT/UTC.
Everyone is on the Same Time!
Then, each school/business/agency sets the time of operation that suits their particular "sun local" and adjusts as needed/wanted... probably kinda like time zones are now. Initial settings would should coincide with whatever silly/arbitrary is currently in use.
As a DST adjustment comes around "hours of operation" change rather than the timepieces. (bonus: no more Y2K crud).
...Then when I see someone operates from say 4:20 to 14:20 UTC, with siesta from 10:30 to 12:30. I just check my time piece, and see if real time communication is practical. No more mental gymnastics twice a year, adjust local hours of operation, not the clocks.

This will also make simple Teleportation more desirable and therefore feasible... just thinking ahead.

I think I will setup a GoFundMe campaign, this shows promise!

HaveaMint
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:56 pm
Location: Somewhere in the USA
Contact:

Re: EU polls citizens on abandoning daylight savings time

Post by HaveaMint » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:01 am

I remember a talk show discussing this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... b8be669974
"Tune for maximum Smoke and then read the Instructions".

Post Reply

Return to “Open chat”