UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

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Frldyz
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UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by Frldyz » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:03 am

UPS supplies:

What is their exact purpose?
From I understand a UPS powers your device thats connected to it in the case of power failure?
The reason is to allow you tmie to properly shut things down?

How much time do you get when the power goes out to properly shut things down?
From what I've been reading it's only a couple of minutes?

But what happens if the power goes out and your not home?
Wont the UPS eventually run out of battery power and the device connected to it will eventually loose power?
If that's the case wouldn't a UPS only beneficial if the user is there when the power goes out?

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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by gm10 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:11 am

Usually a UPS would be connected to your network or via USB and notify connected devices of the power failure, with software on the device configured to gracefully shut the system down then.

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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by xenopeek » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:29 am

A UPS gives you enough time to start up a standby generator to continue operations, or to shut down operations cleanly without risk of data loss. Pointless to have one if you don't periodically test it. Like making backups and never checking you can actually restore from them or that the backup set is complete. Disaster recovery plans ought to be tested!

It makes sense for servers where unavailability or data loss would be costly. To me it doesn't make sense at home, where you're more likely than not using a journaling filesystem that can recover from power loss.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by Citizen229 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:45 am

A UPS can also clean the power coming from the outlet. It levels out the fluctuations in voltage.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by AndyMH » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:02 am

I live in a rural area and the electricity supply is not very reliable. Couple of weeks ago we had three interruptions in the space of an hour, none lasted very long, a couple no more than a minute. Having a UPS means that my router doesn't shut down and I still have internet access (and mobile - no signal so phone through internet). Also supplying my NAS.

Longest its run so far is a couple of hours, no idea what charge remained when the electricity came back. For me a very worthwhile investment.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by jimallyn » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:40 pm

Frldyz wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:03 am
Wont the UPS eventually run out of battery power and the device connected to it will eventually loose power?
You can buy UPSes with small batteries, and you can buy UPSes with large batteries. How long do you need? Check the specs on the UPS for approximate battery life.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by AZgl1500 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:26 pm

The quality of UPS power supplies varies greatly.

I have 3 from Cyber Power, and discovered "after the purchase" that they will NOT work with an Auxiliary Generator like most of us buy.... $1000 for mine.

Mine is a 10kva surge, 8kva continuous duty.
But, the output is not a Pure Sine Wave .... and if it is not, the UPS power supplies will not work with them...
I have 3 UPS power supplies in my house and on one occasion after lightning took out a power transformer, we were out of power for 12 hours. I fired up the GenSet but the UPS supplies would not work with it.
I called Cyber Power and they told me the above facts.

Note to the Wise, buy a GenSet that has an Inverter so that it can supply pure sine wave power to your equipment.

my Main office desktop has a 1500 watt UPS, it will run the desktop, the 24" Samsung LED monitor for 30 minutes before it shuts down. It has a USB cord with it to shut the desktop down if I am not home, but I never bother with that.
in 10 years, most of our power outages are brief, or just a flash in the storm....

the UPS handles that with aplomb.

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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by lsemmens » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:41 am

As Gm10 has said, a quality UPS will notify your computer of a power failure, and software installed on the computer can then perform and orderly unattended shutdown of your system. It also provides protection from "dirty" power, i.e. lightning strikes, brown outs and the like, just like the popular surge suppressors.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by Frldyz » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:21 am

lsemmens wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:41 am
As Gm10 has said, a quality UPS will notify your computer of a power failure, and software installed on the computer can then perform and orderly unattended shutdown of your system. It also provides protection from "dirty" power, i.e. lightning strikes, brown outs and the like, just like the popular surge suppressors.
So you are saying if my house looses power my computer will shut down if I am not @ home if I have a UPS and specific software installed on the computer?

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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by Frldyz » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:24 am

What happens to your NAS and disc's inside?

I've been reading a lot about having a home media NAS ( probally synology ).
It will store my pictures, videos and movies.

The NAS runs 24/7.
1) So what happens to the disc's insie the NAS when power is lost?

2) If the NAS looses power and shuts down without warning will the discs be safe? Or are they compromised?

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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by AndyMH » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:22 am

I've got a synology DS216j with 2x2TB HDD. I've removed the power a number of times without shutting it down and it's not been a problem. I'd add the the HDDs are active 24/7 - the synology is hooked up to a surveillance camera recording all the time. The UPS I've got is a powerwalker:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

As well as providing power to the NAS, it is also connected via a USB cable. In the event of a power failure, the UPS sends a message to the NAS telling it to shut down before the UPS runs out of charge.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by Frldyz » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:36 am

AndyMH wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:22 am
I've got a synology DS216j with 2x2TB HDD. I've removed the power a number of times without shutting it down and it's not been a problem. I'd add the the HDDs are active 24/7 - the synology is hooked up to a surveillance camera recording all the time. The UPS I've got is a powerwalker:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

As well as providing power to the NAS, it is also connected via a USB cable. In the event of a power failure, the UPS sends a message to the NAS telling it to shut down before the UPS runs out of charge.
So UPS automatically sends a message to the NAS to shut down?
And it then shuts down safely?

Is there any software or configuring I need to do with the NAS or UPS to enable this function?

What exactly is surveillance recording anyways?

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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by HaveaMint » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:46 am

https://www.amazon.com/POWER-SAVING-BAC ... B002UUTCNE
I use this for the Main pc and a 250 watt with an external gelcell motorcycle battery for the router and a few small things. You can parallel more batteries to make it last as long as you want.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by Pippin » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:55 am

HaveaMint wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:46 am
You can parallel more batteries to make it last as long as you want.
Careful with increasing battery capacity...
Most consumer and even higher marketed UPS`s are not designed to run longer especially under higher loads.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by HaveaMint » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:04 am

Pippin wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:55 am
HaveaMint wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:46 am
You can parallel more batteries to make it last as long as you want.
Careful with increasing battery capacity...
Most consumer and even higher marketed UPS`s are not designed to run longer especially under higher loads.
True, I needed a battery and had a MC battery laying around so I used it. The PC won't last near as long as the router will. LOL PC will run out of juice but I'll have internet. That battery is physically larger than the ups its on but doesn't draw much current from the router and LCD monitor. I also live in the sticks and when they switch stations it can be annoying.
Last edited by HaveaMint on Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by ZakGordon » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:05 am

A few summers back, when it was also super hot, we had a bad sequence of local power failures that ultimately ended up killing a PSU in one of my PC's.

I've been a happy UPS user since then, and as has been mentioned you need to read the details of the UPS specs to work out what they provide (as this varies). I have them covering all essential electrical parts of my PC set up these days (PC's and screens and internet box etc). They often provide surge protection as well as battery backup.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by AndyMH » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:37 pm

So UPS automatically sends a message to the NAS to shut down?
And it then shuts down safely?

Is there any software or configuring I need to do with the NAS or UPS to enable this function?

What exactly is surveillance recording anyways?
Shuts down safely - yes.
If you buy a synology it's 'all built in', in addition there is a lot of stuff you can download (I've only skimmed the surface of what it can do). From memory, can't remember having to do much, if anything, to configure it - think it found the UPS as soon as I plugged the USB cable in. Synology have a list of supported UPS at:

https://www.synology.com/en-global/comp ... =upses&p=1

Surveillance recording - the reason I bought the NAS in the first place was that I'd parked my car outside at the front, someone sideswiped it, did £3000+ damage and did a runner. Police were very helpful but didn't manage to track him down (neighbour's boy saw the aftermath but didn't have the common sense to take the registration no!!). Synology NASs come bundled with 'surveillance station' so I've got a CCTV camera out front monitoring the road where I park if I can't get on the drive*).

* Here in the UK, because I'm monitoring a public place, I have to register with the information commissioner and pay £35/yr for the privilege :(
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by lsemmens » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:15 pm

AndyMH wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:37 pm

* Here in the UK, because I'm monitoring a public place, I have to register with the information commissioner and pay £35/yr for the privilege :(
Just a question on that. Do you have do pay a fee if you have a dashcam, too? There are dashcams that work on a motion sensor, too, so that if you car is hit whilst unattended, it wakes up and records the event. We had a story on the news here last night where a bloke had some gear stolen off his car and his dashcam recorded the entire event, including the licence plate of the offender's vehicle. :D
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by AndyMH » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:50 am

Dashcam - no idea, I don't have one.
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Re: UPS supply: How do they work and why are they needed?

Post by davexnet3 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:32 pm

I was given a UPS several months ago that has a bad battery. No, I don't know about the different types of UPS. I thought that they basically keep a small battery charged and then in the event of a power failure they invert the DC power in that battery and allow you a short time to shut down your computer. I was thinking with a higher capacity battery hooked up to it, that it would give similar capabilities as an inverter. I was not intending on buying a UPS and converting it. If that was the case then I'd just go out and purchase an inverter https://invertero.com/ I'm just trying to cut any corner that I can on my first DIY panel project.
Last edited by davexnet3 on Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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