Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

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Portreve
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Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by Portreve » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:02 am

Forbes.com: Microsoft 'Confirms' Windows 7 New Monthly Charge

Here's a couple interesting but from this article:
In a new blog post entitled “Helping customers shift to a modern desktop”, Microsoft has announced that it will indeed start charging Windows 7 customers a monthly fee from January 14th 2020, if they want to keep their computers safe.
and
Worse still, as it stands, Microsoft is currently only making this offer to Windows 7 Professional customers in Volume Licensing. Some small businesses may qualify, but the vast majority of everyday consumers (most of whom are running Windows 7 Home) will not.
Given discussions such as this thread, what are your thoughts, and is there anything here we can specifically leverage to help show the benefits of running GNU+Linux in general, or LinuxMint in particular?
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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by gm10 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:22 am

What a click-bait misleading subject. Well done. ;)

Props to Microsoft for providing the extended security updates, even though Win7 is 9 years old, some enterprise or government users cannot always easily make the switch.

As to using this to promote Linux? Are you joking? Microsoft is already supporting their releases much longer than Ubuntu. Ubuntu makes you pay for extended support after 5 years already and you can only go another 3 years for a total of 8. Compare that to the 14 years of Windows 7. If anything this promotes Microsoft.

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by Pepi » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:24 am

if they want to keep their computers safe. :mrgreen:

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by MintBean » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:33 am

I'm no fan of Microsoft, but what they're doing seems perfectly reasonable. If you want extended support for end-of-life software, you pay a fee.

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by CaptainKirksChair » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:29 am

IT is complex. And that means it can be difficult to keep up with the day-to-day demands of your organization, let alone deliver technological innovation that drives the business forward. In desktop management, this is especially true: the process of creating standard images, deploying devices, testing updates, and providing end user support hasn’t changed much in years. It can be tedious, manual, and time consuming. We’re determined to change that...

- from the MS Blog
Why did they need to spend five sentences and seventy words to tell their loyal customers "screw you?" Though in all fairness, the quote above isn't for their customers; it's to justify to themselves that whatever action they take, no matter how much it makes their user-base suffer, is good for the user-base because Microsoft knows what's best for them.

Linux has roughly 18 months to position themselves to take a big chunk of Windows users away from Microsoft. Unfortunately, Apple won't play along because they will never make a Linux version of iTunes. iPhone owners with a Windows home PC will never go anywhere without iTunes; it is one of the top five reasons people won't switch from Windows/macOS to Linux.

However...there is a leverage point here. Practically everything on a newer cell phone is stored "in the cloud." Which means you really don't need iTunes. That's where the GNU/Linux community needs to hit. It needs to be made clear that your photos and music and contacts and such are already backed up. With that said, there does need to be a better connection/interface with iPhones and Linux. With my Android phone, I just plug it in and Mint 19 finds it and opens a window for me to browse my files. This is a requirement if you want to get iPhone/Windows users away from Microsoft. And that is the target "audience."

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by BG405 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:59 am

MintBean wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:33 am
I'm no fan of Microsoft, but what they're doing seems perfectly reasonable. If you want extended support for end-of-life software, you pay a fee.
Exactly.

This is far better than just dropping it altogether. They have realized that there are some users who will not (be able to) switch to Windows 10. It's a pity it's not offered to those with Windows 7 Ultimate, since its Win10 replacement is officially a downgrade (the others I'll leave you all to decide :mrgreen: ).
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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by Portreve » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:06 pm

gm10 wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:22 am
What a click-bait misleading subject. Well done. ;)
I'm not sure it's misleading, though I will absolutely grant it is click-bait. I don't, after all, post threads on this message board so that nobody engages and participates. 8)
Props to Microsoft for providing the extended security updates
Props for keeping their users secure? Really? I should think that's the very least Microsoft could do.
even though Win7 is 9 years old, some enterprise or government users cannot always easily make the switch.
Microsoft pushes out new versions of Windows because that's pretty much the only way they can make "new" money in the operating system platform business.
As to using this to promote Linux? Are you joking? Microsoft is already supporting their releases much longer than Ubuntu. Ubuntu makes you pay for extended support after 5 years already and you can only go another 3 years for a total of 8. Compare that to the 14 years of Windows 7. If anything this promotes Microsoft.
What does any of this have to do with Canonical? There's a lot of distros to pick from. Moreover, the user experience in GNU+Linux tends to get better with each release. There's no “Oh crap, my [printer / scanner / graphics card / etc.] won't be supported any longer and there's nothing anyone can do about it if I upgrade.”

MintBean wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:33 am
I'm no fan of Microsoft, but what they're doing seems perfectly reasonable. If you want extended support for end-of-life software, you pay a fee.
I'm pretty much on the fence about this. On the one hand, I think any natural person or business should have the capacity to earn a living and/or turn a profit; therefore, I would never seek for example a law which states such a thing was illegal. On the other, half or more of the updates Microsoft produces is because their platform is and has always been crap, and so they're forever fixing their own problems, mistakes, mis-judgements, etc. I think the forced upgrade is simply a way to shirk their responsibilities tied to the fact that they produce junk, and is otherwise the same thing as smartphone makers and/or cell carriers only supporting or producing updates for those devices while they are new models, and quickly abandoning them after 12-18 months. (At least Alphabet is making an attempt to deal with this to a degree.)

CaptainKirksChair wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:29 am
IT is complex. And that means it can be difficult to keep up with the day-to-day demands of your organization, let alone deliver technological innovation that drives the business forward. In desktop management, this is especially true: the process of creating standard images, deploying devices, testing updates, and providing end user support hasn’t changed much in years. It can be tedious, manual, and time consuming. We’re determined to change that...

- from the MS Blog
I think the thing which disturbs me most here is the last sentence: “We're determined to change that...” Change what, precisely? Change it so it isn't tedious, manual, and time consuming? Does that mean you folks want to just fly by the seat of your pants with respect to doing updates and fixes? Do you plan to stop creating images, deploying devices, and testing? (Oh, wait: half the time you don't really test your crap; you leave that up to your unpaid beta testers customers to do for you.) Or is it that you don't really want to support your products and instead would rather just shoehorn your customers into the newest shiny thing you've put out?
Why did they need to spend five sentences and seventy words to tell their loyal customers "screw you?" Though in all fairness, the quote above isn't for their customers; it's to justify to themselves that whatever action they take, no matter how much it makes their user-base suffer, is good for the user-base because Microsoft knows what's best for them.
To quote from Babylon 5: “The Corps is Mother. The Corps is Father. Listen. Obey.”
Linux has roughly 18 months to position themselves to take a big chunk of Windows users away from Microsoft.
Huh? Where is this “18 months” comment coming from?
Unfortunately, Apple won't play along because they will never make a Linux version of iTunes. iPhone owners with a Windows home PC will never go anywhere without iTunes; it is one of the top five reasons people won't switch from Windows/macOS to Linux.
Well, most smartphone owners own Android OS-based devices, not iOS-based ones. Ergo, I doubt this would present as being as massive an issue as one might think.
However...there is a leverage point here. Practically everything on a newer cell phone is stored "in the cloud." Which means you really don't need iTunes. That's where the GNU/Linux community needs to hit. It needs to be made clear that your photos and music and contacts and such are already backed up. With that said, there does need to be a better connection/interface with iPhones and Linux. With my Android phone, I just plug it in and Mint 19 finds it and opens a window for me to browse my files. This is a requirement if you want to get iPhone/Windows users away from Microsoft. And that is the target "audience."
This may sound counter-intuitive given my previous comment, but cloud-based computing has nothing to do with this. If you're using an iOS-based device, you absolutely do need iTunes, unless of course the individual in question exclusively listens to streaming content from a non-Apple source, such as Spotify, Pandora, etc. Moreover, it's always been a greater PITA to access an Android OS-based device in Mac OS X ever since Google switched from USB Mass Storage to Media Transfer Protocol, because of course Apple doesn't build MTP support directly into macOS (heretofore also known as Mac OS X) likely for the same reason they won't natively support NTFS read and write, or EXT2/3/4, etc.: they would rather be petty and snub anything that isn't Apple-platform-centric because otherwise they're giving legitimacy to what is in essence a competitor. Hey, Apple: the 1980s called, and they want their platform war mindset back.
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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by gm10 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:21 pm

Portreve wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:06 pm
What does any of this have to do with Canonical?
Because you are posting it on the Mint forums. I'll grant you that e.g. RedHat Enterprise has longer life cycles than Canonical. Still hard to keep up with Microsoft.

I get that there are valid arguments that can be brought against Microsoft, but this one here is so very much not one of them that I hope nobody else in the Linux community picks it up. 11 years of free security patches for a one-time fee of 30$ or whatever you paid for your license is unmatched in the industry, and now complaining about them asking for money for 3 additional years of support past the end-of-life of the product is more than petty. They could have just let the product die as it was supposed to and you still wouldn't have a right to complain.

Arguments like this are what give parts of the Linux community a bad name. Arrive in reality please.
Last edited by gm10 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by Portreve » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:28 pm

gm10 wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:21 pm
Arguments like this are what give parts of the Linux community a bad name. Arrive in reality please.
As I said earlier, if it were within my power to enact a law to prohibit this specific thing Microsoft has done, I would not do so. What more could you possibly want from me in this matter?
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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by gm10 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:49 pm

Portreve wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:28 pm
gm10 wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:21 pm
Arguments like this are what give parts of the Linux community a bad name. Arrive in reality please.
As I said earlier, if it were within my power to enact a law to prohibit this specific thing Microsoft has done, I would not do so. What more could you possibly want from me in this matter?
Well, you also said:
Portreve wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:06 pm
Props for keeping their users secure? Really? I should think that's the very least Microsoft could do.
After 11 years where all they got was a small one-time fee the answer to that is simply no, that's not the very least they can do, they could do much much less and it would still be ok.

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by idle » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:00 pm

If every Windows 7 customer said "life time updates or we ALL switch to Linux" I wonder what Microsoft would do then? ... :wink:

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by gm10 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:48 pm

idle wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:00 pm
If every Windows 7 customer said "life time updates or we ALL switch to Linux" I wonder what Microsoft would do then? ... :wink:
What life time are you referring to? Because they already received free product life time updates and still will until 2020.

On the other hand, it's quite unlikely that MS will base their support life cycle on the customer's life time. ;)

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by AndyMH » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:00 pm

Windows 7 - that's a bit new. Was in my local co-op (supermarket) today, their checkout terminals are still running XP :D
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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by JosephM » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:26 pm

I honestly fail to see the issue here. Windows 7 has been around a long time. It's nearing EOL. That's how it works. It was already supported much longer than many Linux distros. This issue just seems a little like a click-baity excuse for people to rant and type the word Microsoft wrong :)
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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by lsemmens » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:58 pm

Are you also saying that M$ should be providing updates for Windows 2? DOS? All products have a useable life which, in computerese, could be as short as a few months, or several years. Even Linux will not work on an 8088 processor. If you want to keep yourself secure, online especially, you must keep your product up to date. Encouraging people to update by charging for support after EOL is reasonable.
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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by CaptainKirksChair » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:13 pm

Portreve wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:06 pm
Linux has roughly 18 months to position themselves to take a big chunk of Windows users away from Microsoft.
Huh? Where is this “18 months” comment coming from?
The subscription service starts in January 2020. So roughly 18 months from now. The Linux Community needs to have an alternative ready when some of the Windows users tell Microsoft to PUAWR.

And this is what we have been saying all along. Linux IS an alternative to Windows. Then the Linux Community needs to prove that because January 2020 will be the perfect opportunity.

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by Pierre » Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:08 am

the thing is that Microsoft doesn't want win-7 to become another win-xp
:o
it's those small Business Owners, rather than any Home users, that are the Real Issue here,
& it's those SOHO folks, that are still running their win-xp PCs :shock:
as they have no real reason to move, & thus would also stick to win-7 as well.

so this ideas of SAaS is still an work-in-progress, me thinks.
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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by AZgl1500 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:19 am

I have a good friend who has 3 business computers running WinXP
and he won't change.

his only conciliation is that he bought a Surf Tablet to take pictures with and upload them to his website that I built for him.

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by Faust » Mon Sep 10, 2018 2:46 am

AndyMH wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:00 pm
Windows 7 - that's a bit new. Was in my local co-op (supermarket) today, their checkout terminals are still running XP :D
Operating systems that are past EoL do not automatically get ditched , nor should they .
The bigger the organization , the more the cost of migrating to a new system spirals out of control ,
and the greater the chance of utter disaster .
Spanish-owned UK bank TSB recently found this out the hard way , when the parent company enforced a migration
to their IT system .

XP is still around in very many places ..... eg. most ATMs run an embedded version of XP
( That alone must be a rich income stream for the MS Extended Support packages ! )

There was a documentary made a few years ago on-board a new British warship , out for sea-trials .
XP splash screens and DTs could be clearly seen all over the place .
Maybe they were pranking us , maybe it was the "spooks" trying to spread disinformation , or more likely ?
.... they actually were running XP .

I'm still running W7 on a spare laptop , and it is unpatched since the shameful GWX fiasco , and it is solid and secure .
( I watch network traffic much more than the average user , and if something is "getting chatty " in the background ,
I WILL notice ) .

And I'll be hanging on to my Mint 17.3 system till the bitter end , and probably well beyond :lol:
Because it's perfect as it is . It does everything I ever wanted , without fault or fuss ... maybe I've just been lucky
.... but I seriously doubt it :)

I'm running Tara on another rig , I've installed everything I usually need , and I'm trying hard to like it enough
to make it my daily drive ..... Hmm
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The modern reality and the satirical parody are rapidly converging .

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Re: Microsoft to start charging monthly fee for Windows 7...

Post by AndyMH » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:51 am

There was a documentary made a few years ago on-board a new British warship
Probably a Type 45. Worked on various incarnations of this over many years. In the end we replaced twelve Type 42s (worked on them as well) with six Type 45s, primary reason - cost.

I'm running win7 in a VM. Like it and always have. Run win10 on my desktop (dual boot), hate it.
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