Just when you think Google can't get worse

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KBD47
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Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by KBD47 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:25 pm

Google built a prototype of a censored search engine for China that links users’ searches to their personal phone numbers, thus making it easier for the Chinese government to monitor people’s queries, The Intercept can reveal.
https://theintercept.com/2018/09/14/goo ... e-numbers/

Wonder when they apply that to the rest of the world. Or maybe they already have.

Edit: Follow up to the article
Google bosses have forced employees to delete a confidential memo circulating inside the company that revealed explosive details about a plan to launch a censored search engine in China, The Intercept has learned.
https://theintercept.com/2018/09/21/goo ... -in-china/
Last edited by KBD47 on Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by ajgringo619 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:33 pm

Hopefully more of their top people will resign over this. The question is, will it matter...
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catweazel
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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by catweazel » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:10 pm

ajgringo619 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:33 pm
Hopefully more of their top people will resign over this. The question is, will it matter...
Yes, it matters a lot, because these things add up and eventually reach a tipping point. Profit-making corporations exist solely for the benefit of shareholders to make a profit, so if it's legal then it's allowed. However the public is saying that profit-making corporations must have a strong social conscience even if that means reduced profits. I don't see go-ogle dropping their Chinese search ambitions any time soon but these protest resignations are a sign that the world is changing for the better, even if it is one resignation at a time.
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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by ajgringo619 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:15 pm

I appreciate your optimism, catweazel; the world needs more of that. It's an issue I'm following very closely.
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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by richyrich » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:19 pm

catweazel wrote:..a sign that the world is changing for the better..
Hey cat, I think it's time for you to check on a new pair of glasses. Is that a quaint rosy shade you're sporting ? 8)

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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by catweazel » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:28 pm

richyrich wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:19 pm
catweazel wrote:..a sign that the world is changing for the better..
Hey cat, I think it's time for you to check on a new pair of glasses. Is that a quaint rosy shade you're sporting ? 8)
No, I don't believe so. There are signs all over the place. You just need to know what to look for. Jung's collective unconscious has had enough of bad behaviour by politicians, corporations and other powers. I'm writing my final book on this very subject and hope to get it finished before I kick the bucket. I could rattle off quite a few examples but then you wouldn't need to buy my book :)
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KBD47
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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by KBD47 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:18 am

cat, maybe it is one of those things where it must get worse before it gets better. Good luck with your book.
5 years ago Google seemed like a much better company. Back then they dropped China like a hot rock. Today they have not only cozied up, they want to be Big Brother for China's leaders. This company has truly become evil--the very thing their motto was against at their start.

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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by catweazel » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:27 am

KBD47 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:18 am
cat, maybe it is one of those things where it must get worse before it gets better. Good luck with your book.
5 years ago Google seemed like a much better company. Back then they dropped China like a hot rock. Today they have not only cozied up, they want to be Big Brother for China's leaders. This company has truly become evil--the very thing their motto was against at their start.
https://appuals.com/firefoxs-trusted-re ... -activity/
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KBD47
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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by KBD47 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:32 am

catweazel wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:27 am
KBD47 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:18 am
cat, maybe it is one of those things where it must get worse before it gets better. Good luck with your book.
5 years ago Google seemed like a much better company. Back then they dropped China like a hot rock. Today they have not only cozied up, they want to be Big Brother for China's leaders. This company has truly become evil--the very thing their motto was against at their start.
https://appuals.com/firefoxs-trusted-re ... -activity/
That sounds like in order to maker user browsing safer, they made end up doing something stupid. Much different that Google's: wicked by design.

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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by Portreve » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:59 am

My perspective...

In the broadest possible sense, there are two groups. The first group is the broader public, which wants nice things (or, if we're talking politics, they want nice policies/laws/etc.) and they aren't deliberately trying to be bad. The second group wants to aggregate power and resources, does not really care about such things as consequences, but does seek to limit the capacity of the former group to meddle, act independently, and generally undermine their power and relevance

Whenever there is pushback against the second group, there is some form of retributive action, which leads to some form of organization (free software movement, political parties other than Democrats and Republicans, encrypted communication software, additional and alternative service providers like DDG, etc.) and then comes demonization of those responses, FUD attacks, attempts at legislation to stop or at least drastically curtail their usefulness, and so forth.

The only true defense, in any case, is an educated, informed, and engaged public.
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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by alexa9 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:36 am

Even worse, Google was found to manipulate search results here in the USA especially political searches during the election.
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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by gm10 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:47 am

richyrich wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:19 pm
catweazel wrote:..a sign that the world is changing for the better..
Hey cat, I think it's time for you to check on a new pair of glasses. Is that a quaint rosy shade you're sporting ? 8)
Agreed rich. The world is barreling down a highway of full government and corporate control over your data. Things that would have resulted in public outrage 30 years ago are now common place.

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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by KBD47 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:40 pm

alexa9 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:36 am
Even worse, Google was found to manipulate search results here in the USA especially political searches during the election.
That is something I have been thinking about. No matter your party or choice of candidate--Google has the power to shift votes based upon search results to candidates that favor Google or that Google wants in power. Even a few thousand votes in local elections can change the outcome. There have been suggestions that Google could change as much as a million votes in a national election. That is scary stuff.
BTW the same thing has been suggested for people's Facebook feed.

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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by DAMIEN1307 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:12 pm

hey guys...try to remember, no politics are to be mentioned, elsewise, Moem will lock the thread...just a reminder...DAMIEN
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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by Portreve » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:11 am

The technology world used to be fun and exciting because it was enthusiast-driven. Of course, it wasn't perfect (lack of standards, lack of interoperability, platform wars, etc.) but at least you didn't have corporations out for absolute control over everyone, and you certainly didn't have companies as Washington lobbyists.

If technology — in particular, computer technology — wasn't so integral to society, we could all laugh at companies and governments trying to manipulate it and just walk away. However, we really can't do that, and so now we're kind of stuck having to play this stupid cat-and-mouse game. I don't know how anyone else feels, but what I feel at this point is nothing short of total resentment towards all the movers-n-shakers who've (by whatever means and for whatever reason) brought us to this point.
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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by KBD47 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:06 pm

Portreve wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:11 am
The technology world used to be fun and exciting because it was enthusiast-driven. Of course, it wasn't perfect (lack of standards, lack of interoperability, platform wars, etc.) but at least you didn't have corporations out for absolute control over everyone, and you certainly didn't have companies as Washington lobbyists.

If technology — in particular, computer technology — wasn't so integral to society, we could all laugh at companies and governments trying to manipulate it and just walk away. However, we really can't do that, and so now we're kind of stuck having to play this stupid cat-and-mouse game. I don't know how anyone else feels, but what I feel at this point is nothing short of total resentment towards all the movers-n-shakers who've (by whatever means and for whatever reason) brought us to this point.
Pre-Snowden I think many of us were in an ignorant bliss, not thinking of the negative side of the Internet, and not dreaming governments and businesses were hoovering up every bit of our Internet activity. I remember wonderful, frank discussion I had with Internet friends on a variety of subjects that will never be repeated. I learned so much from others back in those days. One dare not express anything personal or ask any serious questions of anyone today. I'm disgusted at all parties who basically destroyed the Internet for anything more than casual conversation. The amount of paranoia we each most hold onto to use the Internet today is unforgivable because Big Brother is alive an well in more than one form.

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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by Portreve » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:39 pm

KBD47 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:06 pm
Pre-Snowden I think many of us were in an ignorant bliss, not thinking of the negative side of the Internet, and not dreaming governments and businesses were hoovering up every bit of our Internet activity.
The pre-Snowden (and, I'd also argue, pre-Manning and pre-WikiLeaks) world had some signs pointing towards the nasty behavior of governments and corporations, but to be fair there's a difference between having (even very well founded) suspicions of actions and activities, and having actual hard evidence of those activities. In parallel with this is also the rose-colored-glasses factor, and generally a tendency to think any such suspicions (and even later for a time any such evidence) is just hyperbole. It also does not help that "most people" don't bother to lift their gaze from the day-to-day and look around them to see what's going on.
I remember wonderful, frank discussion I had with Internet friends on a variety of subjects that will never be repeated. I learned so much from others back in those days. One dare not express anything personal or ask any serious questions of anyone today. I'm disgusted at all parties who basically destroyed the Internet for anything more than casual conversation. The amount of paranoia we each most hold onto to use the Internet today is unforgivable because Big Brother is alive an well in more than one form.
I think it's fairly broadly accepted at this point that we have never seen the sort of societal polarization before that exists at present. I'm 46, and while I certainly cannot claim to know everything about the goings-on of the world over all of those 46 years, it certainly is the case that in my lifetime, what we're seeing today is something new, though I would hasten to add by "new" I don't mean the product of the last couple years, but new in the sense that each wave striking a beach is a new wave, with its birth occurring some considerable space of distance (or time) beforehand.

The thing which I find to be the most unfortunate is how politics in the sense of governmental/party politics has infected and permeated so many totally unrelated fields of endeavor. Because it is such a nexus for so many different areas of avocation or utility, technology's succumbing to political polarization and tribalism seems to be particularly acute. That we dare not talk to each other (as human beings) about a great many different subjects (whether technology is either a conduit or a destination) means we are becoming every more insulated from others and from the world around us. Being insular is not healthy. Mauling/being mauled or distancing ourselves is both dangerous and represents a false dichotomy because we do not benefit from drawing blood nor becoming ever more ignorant about the world around us, and because those aren't the only two options.
Peoples of the universe, please attend carefully: the message which follows is vital to the future of you all.

If your issue is solved or your question answered, please edit the first post of your thread and add [SOLVED] to the thread topic. Thanks!

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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by KBD47 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:26 pm

Somewhat related:
Protonmail is taking aim at Google
https://www.inverse.com/article/49041-p ... -interview

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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by KBD47 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:20 pm

I think the only solution for Google is to be completely broken up. They can't be trusted and they are too big and too powerful:
Google Inc. told lawmakers it continues to allow other companies to scan and share data from Gmail accounts, responding to questions raised on Capitol Hill about privacy and potential misuse of the information contained in users’ emails.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-say ... 1537459989

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Re: Just when you think Google can't get worse

Post by Captain Brillo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:21 am

Every time I bork the Linux box, I learn something new - what a blast!
If it ain't broke, fix it anyway! Ha Ha!

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