WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Chat about just about anything else
Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:59 am

Recently ordered a cheap WiFi amplifier from Aliexpress and was wondering if they are any good? I've been told that the one I have coming is illegal to use in the UK but...

If they are good then I MAY get myself a better one maybe the 8W version.

Also watched a Youtube review which said they do work but are prone to overheating issues so may not last long, while others disagree and say theirs runs cool.

gm10
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4154
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by gm10 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:37 am

Of course those things are illegal, wireless communications are tightly regulated because everybody has to share the spectrum. I don't know specifics for the UK but running a rogue transmitter will result in expensive fines, and if you disrupt other people's wifi you open yourself up to claims for damages. If you do that in the city you're almost certain to be found out. Or at least you would be where I live (not the UK).

Go with a legal wifi repeater.

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:53 am

gm10 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:37 am
Of course those things are illegal, wireless communications are tightly regulated because everybody has to share the spectrum. I don't know specifics for the UK but running a rogue transmitter will result in expensive fines, and if you disrupt other people's wifi you open yourself up to claims for damages. If you do that in the city you're almost certain to be found out. Or at least you would be where I live (not the UK).

Go with a legal wifi repeater.
Yeah but have you used one? I know the FCC are strict about this in the US but I am not in the US. Never heard of anyone getting in trouble here. Don't expect to neither. No shortage of buyers from the US so someone is using them in the US.

gm10
Level 12
Level 12
Posts: 4154
Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by gm10 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:56 am

I'm in the EU, and I think it's pretty clear from my post that I never used one, nor am I planning to, no. I live in the city though and I have seen the vans they use to triangulate rogue transmitters, so I know they'll come after you. It's not like you can cover it up, you're basically setting up a new cell tower. :lol:

But sure, of course they work and if you're in the countryside it's possible nobody will mind.
Last edited by gm10 on Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:59 am

gm10 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:56 am
I'm in the EU, and I think it's pretty clear from my post that I never used one, nor am I planning to, no. I live in the city though and I have seen the vans they use to triangulate rogue transmitters, so I know they'll come after you. It's not like you can cover it up, you're basically setting up a new cell tower. :lol:
I've never heard of anything like that here. I am in the EU, just. But will be leaving soon. Nah but really someone is using these things and a lot of them.

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:35 pm

I have my doubts about them personally, which is why I was asking if anyone had had any experience of these gadgets. If they were really good I think more people would use them and if people had been prosecuted there would be articles in the press. I do not remember reading anything remotely like that in this country, maybe in the US or some countries in the EU.

The closest thing we have to what was described here are TV licence detector vans which, according to most, are empty shells with an antenna or two on the roof.

JeremyB
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9324
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:17 am

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by JeremyB » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:38 pm

Wifi extenders might be legal, they plug into an electrical outlet but do need some info entered for them to work

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:45 pm

JeremyB wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:38 pm
Wifi extenders might be legal, they plug into an electrical outlet but do need some info entered for them to work
They are only good for one purpose though, right? Extending the signal from a router. An amplifier can be plugged into a router or set up to amplify the reception of a signal, though the receiving is less of a boost then transmission, by design.

The dual use interests me but as I said if they were that good everyone would have one.

JeremyB
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9324
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:17 am

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by JeremyB » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:27 pm

They are bi directional, like a repeater

User avatar
Pjotr
Level 20
Level 20
Posts: 10981
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:18 am
Location: The Netherlands (Holland)
Contact:

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Pjotr » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:31 pm

Why expose yourself to dangerous radiation levels? Better reduce them instead:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -radiation
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 19 Tara
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
Twitter: twitter.com/easylinuxtips
All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:16 pm

JeremyB wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:27 pm
They are bi directional, like a repeater
Never realised that.

I think I have found the right cooler for it.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/USB-DC- ... 9574641a9

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:21 pm

Pjotr wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:31 pm
Why expose yourself to dangerous radiation levels? Better reduce them instead:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -radiation
I've never come across someone wanting less power. Most want 30 or above if possible. I thinking it has to do with overpowering a signal so that a user is given your fake page so details can be hijacked. It's in Kali. It's what the Russian spies were caught doing recently in the EU.

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:48 pm

Maybe this one would be better due to metal heatsink, the other was all plastic.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Router- ... b1eee8f82

User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2764
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by AZgl1500 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:18 pm

worrying about the power of your WiFi adapter is pretty much Nonsense.

Unless you stick your head inside the microwave oven, you will not receive enough radiation to ever worry about the consequences.

I have been using radios as a Ham Radio operator since 1958, most of the time at 100 watts, and often at levels of 1,000 watts of radiated power.

I have never felt my skin get warm, and there has been no negative effects to my health.

X-rays from a machine, yes, you should always put on a lead vest, those frequencies can hurt you bad, and the power levels are high enough to hurt you...

even so, I have had well over a 100 dental x-rays during my 75 years, and none of them have had an adverse effect.

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:33 am

AZgl1500 wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:18 pm
worrying about the power of your WiFi adapter is pretty much Nonsense.

Unless you stick your head inside the microwave oven, you will not receive enough radiation to ever worry about the consequences.

I have been using radios as a Ham Radio operator since 1958, most of the time at 100 watts, and often at levels of 1,000 watts of radiated power.

I have never felt my skin get warm, and there has been no negative effects to my health.

X-rays from a machine, yes, you should always put on a lead vest, those frequencies can hurt you bad, and the power levels are high enough to hurt you...

even so, I have had well over a 100 dental x-rays during my 75 years, and none of them have had an adverse effect.
Thanks for that input. I wish we could use those power levels in WiFi. Dreamworld. I just wonder what power levels those Russian hackers were using in their equipment, I suppose if the equipment was custom made for the purpose then it could be very high. I don't really see them using off the shelf gear like an Alfa plus a cheap Chinese amp.

What they did was point a directional antenna at a target then sent their signal which was meant to be a duplicate of the target AP, but much more powerful. And the rest...

User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2764
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by AZgl1500 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:08 pm

Yes,

all they are doing is using a Yagi antenna to increase the Effective Radiated Power / Increase Received signal gain

at best, their hand held yagi antenna will provide them with 9 dBi over a standard monopole antenna.

Using a Yagi antenna for War Driving is a loosing game though, they would have to actually stop and aim it at your house, or the Time to catch a signal would vanish so fast, their WiFi receiver would never see your signal.

My guess is, during War Driving, they are watching an analog signal display, and when they see one, they stop and switch over to a Yagi antenna while stopped.... then their signal could swamp out your WiFi receiver so that their adapter is inserted in the data path....

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:49 am

I currently have my adapter and router set as TW Taiwan. This ups my power from 20dBm to 30dBm and gives me the 13 channels that are the default for GB, perfect. Wouldn't it be sensible, in light of this attack method, to set your router at the highest possible setting to make it more difficult to overpower?

User avatar
AZgl1500
Level 9
Level 9
Posts: 2764
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2015 3:20 am
Location: Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plains
Contact:

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by AZgl1500 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:20 am

Charlie wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:49 am
I currently have my adapter and router set as TW Taiwan. This ups my power from 20dBm to 30dBm and gives me the 13 channels that are the default for GB, perfect. Wouldn't it be sensible, in light of this attack method, to set your router at the highest possible setting to make it more difficult to overpower?
you are confusing Transmit Power with Receiver Sensitivity.

they have no correlation to each other......
your WiFi transmitter could be putting out 1000 watts, but your receiver is still the same old radio it was before, so another War Driver with a Transmitter and Yagi antenna pointing at your radio/house can easily swamp your WiFi receiver with a strong signal....

a more powerful Transmitter will help you get more distance to the other WiFi radio's receiver....
but, your WiFi adapter's receiver must have a very low Noise Floor environment and a very good expensive receiver PreAmplifier.... you only see those in expensive commercial equipment....
Good PreAmplifiers have Super Cooled environments, like down to Zero Degrees Kelvin..... or -400 some odd degrees Centrigrade ( can't recall exactly what the ratio is )

those kind of receivers are only used for Space Communications with stuff way out there, like around the planet Pluto and beyond.

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:07 pm

AZgl1500 wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:20 am
Charlie wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:49 am
I currently have my adapter and router set as TW Taiwan. This ups my power from 20dBm to 30dBm and gives me the 13 channels that are the default for GB, perfect. Wouldn't it be sensible, in light of this attack method, to set your router at the highest possible setting to make it more difficult to overpower?
you are confusing Transmit Power with Receiver Sensitivity.

they have no correlation to each other......
your WiFi transmitter could be putting out 1000 watts, but your receiver is still the same old radio it was before, so another War Driver with a Transmitter and Yagi antenna pointing at your radio/house can easily swamp your WiFi receiver with a strong signal....

a more powerful Transmitter will help you get more distance to the other WiFi radio's receiver....
but, your WiFi adapter's receiver must have a very low Noise Floor environment and a very good expensive receiver PreAmplifier.... you only see those in expensive commercial equipment....
Good PreAmplifiers have Super Cooled environments, like down to Zero Degrees Kelvin..... or -400 some odd degrees Centrigrade ( can't recall exactly what the ratio is )

those kind of receivers are only used for Space Communications with stuff way out there, like around the planet Pluto and beyond.
I am confusing the two. Silly me.

Charlie
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:09 am
Location: Eng-er-land

Re: WiFi amplifiers. Good or bad.

Post by Charlie » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:13 pm

I would have thought that if my router were sending out a signal at 30dBn then what would happen is that I would likely see two AP's witrh the same name. One genuine the other the imposter. I understand how the receiving radio can be swamped but I am still transmitting a powerful signal of my own, how is that swamped.

Post Reply

Return to “Open chat”