Well I give up

[philotux]

It can be demonstrated with a simple thought experiment.

Try this experiment: stop breathing, if that oxygen out there doesn't really exist your mind will be just fine without it.

You took the words out of my mouth!

[trytip]

the one absolute in the universe is it's infinite nullness .

Is matter an absolute in the universe?

not in my theory. i know that because i can imagine a universe without matter, but i can't imagine a universe without the black void. the only other way i can describe it is having a "reverse" universe in which solid matter replaces the nullness and planets replaced by air bubbles. they call this empty space CBR cosmic background radiation. but even before their CBR existed, there had to have been a "nullness" a place holder for this radiation.

that sparks another discussion of the word "nothing"? 2013 Isaac Asimov Memorial Debate: The Existence of Nothing the human mind is not capable of conceiving "nothing"

ps: remember in the old star trek that weird creature that traveled through solid rock as if it was air? well if in a "reverse" universe all creatures had the ability to displace solid matter, you travel far enough and all that matter is now gone/displaced leaving the empty nullness unless of course you and the matter are one and there is no need for displacement. of course we can't dismiss a concept that in a universe dominated by matter, the laws of physics as we them would be inconceivable by our tiny human brains

[catweazel]

It can be demonstrated with a simple thought experiment.

Try this experiment: stop breathing, if that oxygen out there doesn't really exist your mind will be just fine without it.

Been there, done that.

[lsemmens]

Are we not straying awfully close to the "God" debate?

Of course the only thing that is certain "Where there's a will, there's a relative......Boom boom!

[Arch_Enemy]

Maths is not a strong point. Also, you're now talking more than 2 dimensions, I get lost after 1...

Crikey! You exist in 3!

Not me. If I turn sideways I disappear.

I think it might have something to do with me being obtuse...

[Arch_Enemy]

Can we then regard the empty space as an absolute? Or the energy for that matter.

No, because like I said, "out there" is a projected reality that you have no direct access to. The problem for many people is that they assume there is somewhere "out there", when the truth is there is absolutely no evidence that "out there" exists in and of itself, separate and apart from the mind and having its own tangible existence. You see, you observe what's "out there" through your senses. Depth and dimension is added by the brain, which then projects outward whatever comes to it from the data coming into its senses. It follows then that if you remove the senses, all six of them, not five, then the only thing that you can be absolutely 100% certain of is that you exist. This is how it it so that the mind is the only absolute. Everything else is just window dressing that has no independent existence.

The one and only absolute in the entire universe is mind. This isn't some airy-fairy woo woo. It is provable, as a fact that can be established unequivocally and beyond all doubt.

By the way, for the sake of satisfying my curiosity, I would appreciate any pointers to this proof.

It can be demonstrated with a simple thought experiment. However I must warn you that if you 'get it', the experience will be absolutely mind-bending. You won't ever look at the world in the same way ever again and will need to construct a new world view, your old one lying shattered on the ground that doesn't actually exist anyway.

I 'm not sure if I fully comprehend WHAT tought you are talking about (Dr Who? "The best thing to do is nothing, if it is the right KIND of nothing...") but I was sitting contemplating Life, the Universe, and Everything, and I suddenly realized what it all was, and it made everything we "know" completely unimportant.

I have never been able to put it in words, and for me, that is a STRETCH! But if people really had an idea of what the whole universe amounts to, everything else becomes completely irrelevant.

Except cars, of course. Cars are always relevant. Especially Hyundai Genesis Coupe, Aston-Martin Vanquish, and the odd Ferrari or Tesla Roadster...

[trytip]

Are we not straying awfully close to the "God" debate?

no. i didn't see a "god" in any comments except yours. i could have worded things differently to go that way, but i made sure to stay neutral. i can't speak for catweazel's comments he's a man of his own making. but still, talking about minds and dimensions doesn't point to it either. scientists now "believe" we are in a universe with 10 dimensions, or is it 11 i can't keep track. in my book belief is the common denominator for a religion and not the foundation for scientific discovery.

[stormryder]

Been there, done that.

I meant no offense. I was just trying to point out that from a scientific point of view, the brain, as we currently understand it, requires oxygen in order to function.
I figure you're you're too ornery to let it get you down, all the years of being handbagged obviously gave you some resilience.

I get how they arrived at the theory, but I depend on my senses, when I'm 20 feet in the air on icy scaffolding or dropping into the trees in the backcountry there is very little margin for error. Imagining that my senses are misinforming my brain does me no good at all.
Its better for me to embrace reality, denying it has never done me any good.

[catweazel]

Been there, done that.

I meant no offense. I was just trying to point out that from a scientific point of view, the brain, as we currently understand it, requires oxygen in order to function.

Yes, true, but I'm talking about mind, which needs no oxygen. I didn't take offence, btw. Having been brain dead for well over twenty minutes, very much beyond the point where brain damage should have occurred but didn't, I can assure you that dead turns out not to be dead. Having been a physicist who developed highly complex super-computer software, these are not strange ideas I'm promulgating. When I died and found myself fully alert I thought I'd gone quite mad. On my recovery I did some research and was utterly shocked to discover that scientists had been studying this phenomenon for more than forty years, and had produced many, many peer-reviewed articles on the subject. Every scientific article I read echoed my own experience right back at me. Consequently I decided that I was in fact not quite mad.

I figure you're you're too ornery to let it get you down, all the years of being handbagged obviously gave you some resilience.

I get how they arrived at the theory, but I depend on my senses, when I'm 20 feet in the air on icy scaffolding or dropping into the trees in the backcountry there is very little margin for error. Imagining that my senses are misinforming my brain does me no good at all.
Its better for me to embrace reality, denying it has never done me any good.

Did you know that sportsmen and women suffer far less injury if they do warm up exercises before they play their sport? The next time you have to climb an icy scaffolding, don a tutu and do a bit of ballet before you climb. You'll increase your health and your safety.



Anyway, I'm not asking you to deny what you call reality, I'm merely suggesting that what you call reality isn't all it's cracked up to be and ought to be questioned. Us former physicists don't look at 'reality' the same way other people do. When I look at things I see fields and electromagnetic waves, I see clouds of light behaving as atoms. I also see a very stubborn illusion that most people call 'reality'. Many of us are driven to mysticism as a result of this knowledge, as were many of the early quantum physicists. It is summed up by Erwin Schrödinger; "The total number of minds in the universe is one." He was right, there is only one consciousness and that consciousness is the fundamental component of the universe. It is primary. Without consciousness there is nothing, no knowing, no nothing, and this is what the mind experiment I offered above actually shows.

Anyway, the point I'm driving at is this: The only true reality is the I. That's the nebulous, undefined thing you refer to when you say "I". Everything else is questionable.

Cheers.

[philotux]

Can we then regard the empty space as an absolute? Or the energy for that matter.

No, because like I said, "out there" is a projected reality that you have no direct access to. The problem for many people is that they assume there is somewhere "out there", when the truth is there is absolutely no evidence that "out there" exists in and of itself, separate and apart from the mind and having its own tangible existence. You see, you observe what's "out there" through your senses. Depth and dimension is added by the brain, which then projects outward whatever comes to it from the data coming into its senses. It follows then that if you remove the senses, all six of them, not five, then the only thing that you can be absolutely 100% certain of is that you exist. This is how it it so that the mind is the only absolute. Everything else is just window dressing that has no independent existence.

The one and only absolute in the entire universe is mind. This isn't some airy-fairy woo woo. It is provable, as a fact that can be established unequivocally and beyond all doubt.

By the way, for the sake of satisfying my curiosity, I would appreciate any pointers to this proof.

It can be demonstrated with a simple thought experiment. However I must warn you that if you 'get it', the experience will be absolutely mind-bending. You won't ever look at the world in the same way ever again and will need to construct a new world view, your old one lying shattered on the ground that doesn't actually exist anyway.

Thank you catweazel for explaining your views on the nature of the reality, I appreciate it. And sorry for not responding earlier.

greetings

[philotux]

the one absolute in the universe is it's infinite nullness .

Is matter an absolute in the universe?

not in my theory. i know that because i can imagine a universe without matter, but i can't imagine a universe without the black void. the only other way i can describe it is having a "reverse" universe in which solid matter replaces the nullness and planets replaced by air bubbles. they call this empty space CBR cosmic background radiation. but even before their CBR existed, there had to have been a "nullness" a place holder for this radiation.

that sparks another discussion of the word "nothing"? 2013 Isaac Asimov Memorial Debate: The Existence of Nothing the human mind is not capable of conceiving "nothing"

ps: remember in the old star trek that weird creature that traveled through solid rock as if it was air? well if in a "reverse" universe all creatures had the ability to displace solid matter, you travel far enough and all that matter is now gone/displaced leaving the empty nullness unless of course you and the matter are one and there is no need for displacement. of course we can't dismiss a concept that in a universe dominated by matter, the laws of physics as we them would be inconceivable by our tiny human brains

Thanks trytip for the link. I have been busy with moving to another place and haven't had time to watch it yet. Lots of food for thought for sure.

greetings

[lsemmens]

Thanks for sharing some of your personal experience, Catweasel, I, too, have been where you were. What annoy the cr*p out of me is that I remember none of it. When I "died" they pulled me out of the wreck and laid me out, as they were calling in a casualty, I started breathing, not sure how long I was dead then. They then resusced me in the Ambulance and again in casualty. Over the next few days they were predicting that I was brain dead and then I woke up, then they said I'd be a vegetable, don't much like those, then asked how my house was set up for wheelchairs, I didn't even take a walking stick home from the hospital. I now live on anti-depressants owing to my head injury (they determined that I had 21% permanent brain damage) I still reckon it was the bit I never used anyway) I do notice some issues, but, to the outsider I present as quite "normal". I would love to be able to say what was on "the other side" but, I must rely on my faith, just as any other person who has never "died".

[Arch_Enemy]

Been there, done that.

I meant no offense. I was just trying to point out that from a scientific point of view, the brain, as we currently understand it, requires oxygen in order to function.

Yes, true, but I'm talking about mind, which needs no oxygen.
Cheers.

I find Chivas Regal is about all it needs...

[Arch_Enemy]

Thanks for sharing some of your personal experience, Catweasel, I, too, have been where you were. What annoy the cr*p out of me is that I remember none of it. When I "died" they pulled me out of the wreck and laid me out, as they were calling in a casualty, I started breathing, not sure how long I was dead then. They then resusced me in the Ambulance and again in casualty. Over the next few days they were predicting that I was brain dead and then I woke up, then they said I'd be a vegetable, don't much like those, then asked how my house was set up for wheelchairs, I didn't even take a walking stick home from the hospital. I now live on anti-depressants owing to my head injury (they determined that I had 21% permanent brain damage) I still reckon it was the bit I never used anyway) I do notice some issues, but, to the outsider I present as quite "normal". I would love to be able to say what was on "the other side" but, I must rely on my faith, just as any other person who has never "died".

Wow.

I was in a band with a singer who had died 3 times. He now has no fear of dying because he said it was beautiful. He has spine injuries and never damage, and some days would scream in pain for hours before a gig and yet carried on. You guys are amazing.

Added to my prayers, whether you believe in them or not. (BTW, I pray to Saints. They lived here at one point. )

[Arch_Enemy]

Thanks for sharing some of your personal experience, Catweasel, I, too, have been where you were. What annoy the cr*p out of me is that I remember none of it. When I "died" they pulled me out of the wreck and laid me out, as they were calling in a casualty, I started breathing, not sure how long I was dead then. They then resusced me in the Ambulance and again in casualty. Over the next few days they were predicting that I was brain dead and then I woke up, then they said I'd be a vegetable, don't much like those, then asked how my house was set up for wheelchairs, I didn't even take a walking stick home from the hospital. I now live on anti-depressants owing to my head injury (they determined that I had 21% permanent brain damage) I still reckon it was the bit I never used anyway) I do notice some issues, but, to the outsider I present as quite "normal". I would love to be able to say what was on "the other side" but, I must rely on my faith, just as any other person who has never "died".

Wow.

I was in a band with a singer who had died 3 times. He now has no fear of dying because he said it was beautiful. He has spine injuries and never damage, and some days would scream in pain for hours before a gig and yet carried on. You guys are amazing.

Added to my prayers, whether you believe in them or not. (BTW, I pray to Saints. They lived here at one point. )

Er...NERVE damage...damm Scotch!

[lsemmens]

Er...NERVE damage...damm Scotch!

Can I have some?

[Arch_Enemy]

Er...NERVE damage...damm Scotch!

Can I have some?

SURE! C'mon over! I'm only about as far from you as I could possibly be!

On secind thought, I'm sick of it here. I'll be right down! Besides, it's almost SUMMER there. But you folks sure have some nasty snakes and bugs!

[Arch_Enemy]

PS: Tonight's choice is just plain, old Whiskey. Come back tomorrow when I crack open the Rye...

[Faust]

.....
I was in a band with a singer who had died 3 times. He now has no fear of dying because he said it was beautiful.
.....

Interesting stuff .
Accounts of near-death experiences are remarkably consistent , across all cultures .
People who have also used ayahuasca/DMT report similar things .