Time to talk about WhatsApp

[andyO]

I apologise in advance if this has been done already and I'll say here I don't want to start a big argument. I am just wondering what people's opinions are.

So, my sports club uses WhatsApp to organise activities such training, events, meet-ups etc etc... and you know, I *do* want to be involved, attend and take part etc without people having to constantly make a special (communications) case just to let me know what is going on. I suspect people are getting bored of having to make a special case to include me.

I am resistant to using WA because it is owned by FB and my morals don't like the idea of using anything associated with FB or helping to make them any income. I have tried to persuade people to switch to Signal for messaging, but it just isn't happening.

What are people's opinions on WA? Is it not that evil, should I just get over myself and use it for this small purpose, or do I have good grounds to keep resisting (no way will I ever use FB mind)?

[kukamuumuka]

It is futile for me like other social apps too.

[Pierre]

the biggest issue is that if you Don't use the App,
then you are cut out of the loop & you thus can be un-aware of what is happening in your circle of people.
so, for any younger folks, that means missing your friends party, as you didn't see the invite.

for anyone else, they would just send a text message,, and the older folks would still ring you ..

[AZgl1800]

I refuse to use WhatsApp

my friends use either Facebook Messenger ( hey, it's all they know )

or, we use SMS Groups which I like better.

[xenopeek]

If you're in Europe, this FAQ covers what WhatsApp shares with Facebook: https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/26000112/?eea=1

[gm10]

the biggest issue is that if you Don't use the App,
then you are cut out of the loop & you thus can be un-aware of what is happening in your circle of people.
so, for any younger folks, that means missing your friends party, as you didn't see the invite.

for anyone else, they would just send a text message,, and the older folks would still ring you ..

I'm not young anymore but if I was a send a text message people would look at me strangely. It is as you said, you're either the odd one out or you're using the same messenger your friends are using. I'm already not on FB, there's no way I can also refuse WhatsApp. Passive peer pressure at its finest.

[HaveaMint]

If all your wanting to do is see whats going on and not really getting involved in the chatting part then get a free google email and the WA app so you can see what is on the schedule. If all you chat about is "I will be there" or not then what harm is it.
I personally have no use or desire for any social app even though my family is on FB. I don't like putting my life on the net.

[Moem]

I don't use WhatsApp. I don't want Facebook getting my metadata, period. I'm lucky: no one expects me to.

I feel that it's not very professional for an organization to expect all members to use one specific service that's offered by one company only, but that may just be me. Is there anyone in your group who would be kind enough to forward any pertinent information to you through a different medium?

[Portreve]

I'm certain that if Richard Stallman were a part of this discussion, he would remind us all that proprietary software of any description carries with it the potential for unknown hazard because there is no way to validate the source code. He'd also reemphasize, no doubt, the importance of free and open standards as well as securing your privacy.

Now, in principle, WhatsApp does give you nominally secure communication because it is encrypted, but it's ownership by Facebook, much less the fact it's proprietary puts a huge cloud over that.

To borrow a line from the movie Bulletproof Monk, “Water which is too pure has no fish.” Sooner or later, one has to ask where the balance is between taking a principled stand, and being unreasonable. I could tell everyone, for example, you will use Signal and only Signal to contact me for messaging, and (for example) Tutanota and only Tutanota for emailing, and you could then reject any messages not sent using those solutions. I don't know about most people, but if I tried that, I would get no communications at all, except those I needed to delete or at least disregard because they weren't secure.

The question is: regardless of where your present position is, are you willing to effectively give up communicating with the rest of the world? Because unless you are, you probably might as well pick your poison and then live with it.

[andyO]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and opinions.

I definitely don't want my life played out on the internet, I don't have FB (and never will). Thanks for the link xenopeek (which I should have maybe found for myself <blush>). I'm coming to the opinion that this is maybe just one of those times in life where you have to make a little compromise to get along.

Moem, I understand where you are coming from. If this was my employer or a commercial organisation I'd definitely be following your train of thoughts. This is much more of a grass routes thing though, a large group of friends type of club and I suspect people may be getting bored of my idealism in this area.

Thanks again for everyone's opinions.

[Hoser Rob]

I don't like what those guys do but I understand why they do it.

The problem is that people aren't willing to pay for web content. And when you install something like whatsapp (or Google Earth or most any web app) you may think that what you installed is the actual program. It isn't. It's just a front end and the software that's actually doing all the work is running on a server farm that cost over a billion $. That has to be paid for somehow. Unfortunately this is what we've come to with the Web.

[catweazel]

What are people's opinions on WA?

I don't use it but you could without too much loss of privacy by simply being an observer, not a participant.

[Moem]

That has to be paid for somehow. Unfortunately this is what we've come to with the Web.

That's true in general. On the other hand, Telegram is still free and ad-free.

[GS3]

I'm not young anymore

I like to refer to myself as "semi-young" ever since I saw an old clunker being offered for sale as "semi-new".

I feel that it's not very professional for an organization to expect all members to use one specific service that's offered by one company only, but that may just be me.

I agree. I refuse to be on any of the social networks, mainly because I am not interested in seeing photos of what people are about to eat. I already know what food looks like.

I object to companies not giving you an email contact and asking you to contact them on Facebook or WhatsApp. I get the impression those messages are not given any serious consideration. In my view people whose primary means of communication is something like Twitter cannot be trusted with anything important. I mean, I am writing your company to complain your defective product cost me my right foot and you want me to use Facebook? Come on!

And I refuse to be obligated to use proprietary software to communicate with you.

I do not have WhatsApp and I do not think I ever will.

[Portreve]

Vis a vis WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, ProtonMail, Tutanota, etc...

The 1980s/90s called, and they want their lack of interoperability design methodology back.

I was chatting with my lady friend in Germany the other day when U.S. President Trump came down here to speak at Germain (soon to be Hertz) Arena, and I remember something I'd heard a while back: wherever the President goes, there's an intercept of phone calls and text messages of all phones within something like a 60 mile (97 km) radius. WhatsApp is not perfect, it's not ideal, but I really liked the fact that the contents of our conversation were not just automatically able to be collected.

[Hoser Rob]

I'm certain that if Richard Stallman were a part of this discussion, he would remind us all that proprietary software of any description carries with it the potential for unknown hazard because there is no way to validate the source code. He'd also reemphasize, no doubt, the importance of free and open standards as well as securing your privacy....

havinf FOSS software does NOT guarantee security. One infamous encryption bug sat there inj FOSS code because encryption algorithms often use VERY advanced math eg serious number theory. Which is over the heads of most computer programmers let alone everyone else. I.e. hiding in plain sight. It doesn't help if anyone can read the sourcfe if almost nobody can understand it.

[Portreve]

havinf FOSS software does NOT guarantee security. One infamous encryption bug sat there inj FOSS code because encryption algorithms often use VERY advanced math eg serious number theory. Which is over the heads of most computer programmers let alone everyone else. I.e. hiding in plain sight. It doesn't help if anyone can read the sourcfe if almost nobody can understand it.

Just because there's nobody riding on it at the moment doesn't mean we don't need a highway. Just because it isn't snowing right now doesn't mean we don't need snowblowers.

[tdockery97]

Rats!!!! I can't find my tinfoil hat anywhere!

[gm10]

havinf FOSS software does NOT guarantee security. One infamous encryption bug sat there inj FOSS code because encryption algorithms often use VERY advanced math eg serious number theory. Which is over the heads of most computer programmers let alone everyone else. I.e. hiding in plain sight. It doesn't help if anyone can read the sourcfe if almost nobody can understand it.

Just because there's nobody riding on it at the moment doesn't mean we don't need a highway. Just because it isn't snowing right now doesn't mean we don't need snowblowers.

I don't think he said we shouldn't have FOSS, he just said it doesn't guarantee security, which is entirely correct. In fact in some people it seems to instill a false sense of security and code quality, which is even worse. That doesn't make FOSS a bad thing - as you said, just because nobody is finding the bugs doesn't mean there shouldn't be the possibility for anybody to go find them.

[webwrx]

What are people's opinions on WA?

I don't use it but you could without too much loss of privacy by simply being an observer, not a participant.

Pretty much how I treat Facebook now. I kinda need to be there because work has a FB group for roster swaps. Every few days I log in, read/contribute bare minimum, and then LOG OFF when finished, because.... apparently (someone correct me if wrong), if you stay logged in that's how they continue to track your use of 3rd party websites. It's an extra step, and I guess it's why they put the LOG OFF option 2-clicks out of the way because they really do not want you to log off, so I get a small sense of satisfaction every time I do!!