Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

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rene
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rene »

thx-1138 wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:22 pm
there must be equal representation in the process where web standards get created,
as well as in the decision making process where priorities for implementation get set.
Fair enough. That seems to be a relatively good answer to my query...
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by Portreve »

Ø

That is the amount to which I trust Microsoft.
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rene »

You don't have to. Microsoft simply doesn't have the clout to eff anyone over in this area. Embrace and Extend? Yeah, and Extinguish themselves...
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by jimallyn »

It shouldn't matter what browser you use. There are standards for browsers (and for web pages), and as long as web pages are standards compliant, then they should look pretty much the same in any standards compliant browser. I know for a long time Microsoft refused to comply with standards, and most website designers added workarounds so their pages would render properly in IE. I wouldn't do that. If Microsoft can't stick to the standards and pages don't look right in my browser because of it, I'm not going to switch to IE or Edge because of it. If any of my own sites looked screwy because Microsoft's browser doesn't follow the standards, I would put a large notice on my site explaining that it's Microsoft's fault, not mine, that some pages don't render properly. I will continue to use standards compliant browsers and immediately close down any tab that doesn't display properly. And let the owner of the non standards compliant sites know that they lost me.

I use Firefox almost exclusively. On occasion I will open up another browser to look at something specific, or because my usual browser is starting to choke on the 100 or so tabs I have open. I use Chromium rarely, because it apparently has some of Google's hooks in it, and I prefer to avoid that. I did try Chrome, and I really don't know what the fuss over it is. I prefer Firefox.

I imagine next we'll be hearing Microsoft Windows will be based on Linux.
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by carum carvi »

Around 25%-30% of the market for browsers (ALL platforms combined) consists of Safari, Firefox and Opera.

http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share

A whopping 60% of all browsers (all platforms combined) globally run Google Chrome. Among economists more than 15% of marketshare is considered a suffocating monopoly. What amazes me is that the marketshare for the Edge browser (for all platforms combined) isnt even listed in the statistics, because it is THAT small. So I dont worry so much about what Microsoft does with it's browser. But google's share of the browser market IS worrying.

When still a third of all browsers globally (all platforms combined) originates from different browsers I hope that webdevellopers will still be giving service to Safari, Firefox and Opera users. Opera which got bought by the Chinese recently could be gaining strength through numbers (one and a half billion chinese people), which could enhance for the better the low market share Opera has got now...
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rene »

carum carvi wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:39 am When still a third of all browsers globally (all platforms combined) originates from different browsers I hope that webdevellopers will still be giving service to Safari, Firefox and Opera users.
UC Browser and Opera are Chromium based and if we as per this announcement tally up Edge and IE (which is definitively dead when Edge is available for Windows 7 and 8 and useful Chromium-based Edge for W10) we're effectively talking about anything other than Safari and Firefox -- and If we then additionally chuck out mobile so as to concentrate on desktop market share we're at around 90%: http://gs.statcounter.com/browser-marke ... /worldwide

Which is to say, "hope" all you want (although as to buggy, poorly standards compliant Safari, under control of a corporate entity much worse than Microsoft and Google combined with respect to imprisoning users, why?) but I would not bet your life savings....
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

hi jimallyn, you said,
I imagine next we'll be hearing Microsoft Windows will be based on Linux.
my thinking is that is exactly what they might have in mind. why else would they be including Linux OSs in their windows store or Linux subsystems, they also paid 500,000 dollars for a seat on the board of the Linux Foundation as well as buying Github for an obscene amount of multi-billions of dollars, plus they realise by now that windows 10 is a bust...i have no doubt that they are re-working a Linux OS by adding some propriotory elements to it as we speak.
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by carum carvi »

rene wrote: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:44 am UC Browser and Opera are Chromium based ........ -- and If we then additionally chuck out mobile so as to concentrate on desktop market share we're at around 90%
Oh yes, I forgot about that! Good point Rene. That's the thing about monopolies, they tend to become bigger and bigger. Nobody even bothers trying to launch a new product, because it has no chance in gaining a commercial marketshare anyway.

But the "great" thing about monopolies is that they can collaps as well in a big and sudden way. Google is way overrated at the stockmarket which is doomed to collaps in 2019. Even Jeff Bezos warned that his Amazon company could vanish in a stockmarket collaps.

After a financial collaps, opensource could become one of the few remaining good alternatives to the one size fits all Google monopoly. I hope... :wink:
rene
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rene »

Thing is that I don't seem to find a web monopoly quite as necessarily undesirable as others take for granted. Mentioned through thx-1138's above link to https://ferdychristant.com/the-state-of ... a83a41c1cb I concede that you'd want the standards- and innovation-track guarded, but to me that seems a task for government. Why do we have government in the first place if it's not to protect us from private interest? I'd theoretically much rather have my government sit in than the Mozilla Foundation. We'll of course have to go pound on a few "freedom!" shouting American neo-liberals to make that happen, but hey, that clearly sounds like fun in and of itself...

Yes, I noticed my need to insert "theoretically" in the above (i.e., my government is deeply incompetent when it comes to technology) and would feel it not unlikely that my notions are being guided by being in the vast minority of people with government that can actually usually be sort of trusted to want the right thing for its governed, but I in this specific web-case still need something more than "'monopoly bad, m'kay?"
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by Portreve »

rene wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:19 pmYou don't have to. Microsoft simply doesn't have the clout to eff anyone over in this area. Embrace and Extend? Yeah, and Extinguish themselves...
I don't trust Microsoft's motivations here. In fact, I don't trust any of their motivations (in general, obviously) where anything GNU+Linux or libre licensed software is concerned. And, let's face it: most people are ignorant sheeple who Micro$haft can abuse as much as they want and they won't leave MS anyhow. It's as bad as an abusive domestic relationship, and I won't have it, or have any part of it.
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rene
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by rene »

While the reply stays the same --- who cares about Microsoft's motivation in a field in which they will not be able to hurt anyone except themselves anyway? --- what precisely would you not trust? It all seems fairly obvious: a rendering (and JavaScript) engine is a complex piece of software which other than to a multitude of involved standards needs to adhere to a few billion actual web sites. Microsoft has lost mobile to Google (and Apple) and with some 50% of web traffic now being mobile therefore the browser; desktop users on Windows install Chrome as a matter of inter-device continuity.

Although they also haven't tried very hard, Edge has completely failed to grab mindshare, so what is Microsoft to do? Continue dumping massive amounts of money and man-hours into maintaining a private engine without any return on investment? Or share the burden with Google and other companies by using Blink/V8? Any browser based privacy invasions they're set on keeping they'll be able to anyway; that's a frontend- rather than engine-level matter.

You need quite a bit of imagination to have this move be anything other than sensible business practice...
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by Moem »

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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by Portreve »

rene wrote: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:48 amWhile the reply stays the same --- who cares about Microsoft's motivation in a field in which they will not be able to hurt anyone except themselves anyway?
The future is unknowable in terms of specific facts. That said, past behavior is often an indicator of future actions, and who is to say what turn in fortune might lie in wait here?
so what is Microsoft to do?
To quote the alien from the first Independence Day movie when asked a similar question about what we humans could do (vis a vis our situation with those aliens)... “Die.”
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Re: Microsoft Edge will be based on Chromium

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

jimallyn said,
I imagine next we'll be hearing Microsoft Windows will be based on Linux.
, and i said in reply,
my thinking is that is exactly what they might have in mind.
.

I pasted a link i found this morning by a writer whom it appears to be in agreement, (are those pigs i see flying?)...lol...DAMIEN


https://www.zdnet.com/article/ms-linux- ... top-linux/
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